Massive immigration of Africans and Chinese

What do you think, is that the solution to theoretical European demographical problems?
Do you think this could "cool down" the effect of the "problematic" high unemployed muslim minority?

As I see it, Africans in Europe are the best people in Europe, far better than the Europeans themself, Africans who succeed as an immigrant in Europe will never do anything wrong and will always be happy to be European, he will actually be more European than most Europeans themselves, especially if you consider how "good" Europeans the British is.

The other group is the Chinese, why could we not start massive immigration of the educated Chinese population? How could we get them to come to Europe?
Have anyone been in Rotterdam? Rotterdam has a large Chinese minority and is certainly one of the best and most successfull cities in Europe..
But all in all, isnt it a good thing with African and Chinese immigrants rather than "troubled" muslim immigrants that "are up to no good".
How can we make that happen, what would the advantages and disadvantages be besides the reduction in % of white Europeans in Europe..

I would rather the white European population be reduced by Chinese and Africans than Arabs(muslims).

Maximus Zeebra said:

What do you think, is that the solution to theoretical European demographical problems?
Do you think this could "cool down" the effect of the "problematic" high unemployed muslim minority.

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To cool down this effect it would be important to offer more jobs to Muslim people, an immigration of Chinese or African people does not necessarly change this situation.

Maximus Zeebra said:

As I see it, Africans in Europe are the best people in Europe, far better than the Europeans themself, Africans who succeed as an immigrant in Europe will never do anything wrong and will always be happy to be European, he will actually be more European than most Europeans themselves, especially if you consider how "good" Europeans the British is.

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Often people are African and Muslim.

Maximus Zeebra said:

The other group is the Chinese, why could we not start massive immigration of the educated Chinese population? How could we get them to come to Europe?

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The Chinese have been the major foreign group at the university I studied at for years, when you look around in the library, especially on weekend there is a good chance there are more Chinese people there than German people. Don't forget, the teaching language is German. It's probably a question of conditions and jobs to have educated Chinese people be willing to live here.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Have anyone been in Rotterdam? Rotterdam has a large Chinese minority and is certainly one of the best and most successfull cities in Europe..

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There are more than 40,000 Turks and more than 30,000 Moroccans, too, in Rotterdam.

Maximus Zeebra said:

But all in all, isnt it a good thing with African and Chinese immigrants rather than "troubled" muslim immigrants that "are up to no good".
How can we make that happen, what would the advantages and disadvantages be besides the reduction in % of white Europeans in Europe..

I would rather the white European population be reduced by Chinese and Africans than Arabs(muslims).

Click to expand...

It's not about religion or where someone comes from.

The only way Europe will ever to gain better immigrants is by actually opening up it's borders to immigration. as of now countries such as Germany are far too shut off towards any immigration.
One of the many reasons why we the US are far more competitive than Europe is because of our far generous immigration opportunities, hence constant influx of fresh ideas.
I think it's a good think that you are contemplating these matters now.

jfuh said:

The only way Europe will ever to gain better immigrants is by actually opening up it's borders to immigration. as of now countries such as Germany are far too shut off towards any immigration.

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Europe is not closed to well educated immigrants, infact we welcome them, but the problem is that it aint well educated and behaved immigrants that want access to Europe. And on that front the US and Europe agree. The US also only wants well educated immigrants for the most part and have large quotas on various areas and even countries.. so the US is also very closed in that aspect.

Our problem is the hundreds of thousands of illegals that attempt to gain access to Europe via our southern borders. People from the Middle East and Africa. Uneducated and often very backward thinking people who cant fit into a modern western society. And often very religious, and that dont mix well in a very secular Europe.

As I have mentioned before, its hard comparing US immigration to Europes as we get different types of immigrants. Europe gets low educated masses from areas close to its borders, Africa and the middle east. The US has "low educated" mass pouring over the southern border form Mexico, but Mexicans are better educated than most illegals coming to Europe. And on top of that thier cultural and religion is not that much different than many Americans. In Europe the cultural and religious differences between Europeans and thier illegals are huge.

Far asian immigrants in Europe are often welcomed, as they are hard workers btw. Chinese, Vietnamese and other peoples of the area, are often very productive parts of society and dont cause many problems. But as soon as the immigrants have the religious aspect then we have problems with them in Europe.

One of the many reasons why we the US are far more competitive than Europe is because of our far generous immigration opportunities, hence constant influx of fresh ideas.

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The US is not "far more" competitive than Europe. Its how you define the parameters for comparision and what numbers you use. If you really analyse the numbers and look whats behind said numbers, then quite often there aint a lot of difference between the two areas. Hell there are a few EU members that have higher labour productivity per GDP capita than the US, and some that are near, while others are waaaay lower. But in the end its what you messure and how you do it. In fact on the latest list of global competiveness by the World Economic Forum, 3 EU countries are ahead of the US on said list.. (all socialist btw) and Germany is right behind the US as is the UK. These lists change all the time but the trend has been a declining US competitivness when compared to Europe.. if that trend continues well.. we shall see.

But as I said.. its how you messure it and what numbers you use.

I cannot really add to PeteEU's assessment except to confirm it. Nobody wants poorly educated, unhealthy, and especially not culturally backward immigrants. That is why there is the official process of selection and approval. It is fair and works in the best interests of both parties. This is also why illegal immigration and government failures relating to it are so divisive in the EU. Only a small number of people are genuinely rabid racists, the majority appreciate the value of immigrants. Unfortunately, that good will is severely tested by state government and EU incompetence in the handling of the illegals. Such failure is now starting to nourish the far-right parties of Europe. This is why I support stronger action to curb illegal migration, because the problems that such migrancy brings with it are bad enough, but what it can potentially draw out of Europe itself is immeasurably worse. Liberal failure on immigration is now acting as a catalyst to various fascist groups.

PeteEU said:

Europe is not closed to well educated immigrants, infact we welcome them, but the problem is that it aint well educated and behaved immigrants that want access to Europe. And on that front the US and Europe agree. The US also only wants well educated immigrants for the most part and have large quotas on various areas and even countries.. so the US is also very closed in that aspect.

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Quite contrary, there is no other country in the world that is as open to immigration than the land of immigrants the USA - source1
Source 2
There are plenty more scholarly articles of such.

PeteEU said:

Our problem is the hundreds of thousands of illegals that attempt to gain access to Europe via our southern borders. People from the Middle East and Africa. Uneducated and often very backward thinking people who cant fit into a modern western society. And often very religious, and that dont mix well in a very secular Europe.

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Join the crowd, we also have that problem - you just deal with it.

PeteEU said:

As I have mentioned before, its hard comparing US immigration to Europes as we get different types of immigrants. Europe gets low educated masses from areas close to its borders, Africa and the middle east. The US has "low educated" mass pouring over the southern border form Mexico, but Mexicans are better educated than most illegals coming to Europe. And on top of that thier cultural and religion is not that much different than many Americans. In Europe the cultural and religious differences between Europeans and thier illegals are huge.

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No, not that different at all. You have the good ones and the bad ones. But we accept them all either way, you just deal with them.

PeteEU said:

Far asian immigrants in Europe are often welcomed, as they are hard workers btw. Chinese, Vietnamese and other peoples of the area, are often very productive parts of society and dont cause many problems. But as soon as the immigrants have the religious aspect then we have problems with them in Europe.

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From what I have come to understand from many Chinese and Korean immigrants, Europe is a fantasy, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the countries of europe unless you marry someone of the country, and even then, getting full rights and citizenship takes a long time. Also reference to the sources I've posted earlier.

PeteEU said:

The US is not "far more" competitive than Europe. Its how you define the parameters for comparision and what numbers you use. If you really analyse the numbers and look whats behind said numbers, then quite often there aint a lot of difference between the two areas. Hell there are a few EU members that have higher labour productivity per GDP capita than the US, and some that are near, while others are waaaay lower. But in the end its what you messure and how you do it. In fact on the latest list of global competiveness by the World Economic Forum, 3 EU countries are ahead of the US on said list.. (all socialist btw) and Germany is right behind the US as is the UK. These lists change all the time but the trend has been a declining US competitivness when compared to Europe.. if that trend continues well.. we shall see.

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As I said, immigration is but one of the many reasons why the Us is far ahead in competition against the EU exactly as the sources above have outlined.
Another would be in that we are a unified country, not broken up as the EU is, which is why, the 21st century is the century where the Atlantic becomes irrelevant and the Pacific becomes dominant. Well, the UK being a huge exception to that, those brits know where the wind blows from.

Volker said:

To cool down this effect it would be important to offer more jobs to Muslim people, an immigration of Chinese or African people does not necessarly change this situation.

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Yes, but we could virtually stop immigration from non-EU countries, and single out the well educated. Or we could get muslims to take Europes worst jobs and educated Europeans better so they can take the top jobs.

Volker said:

Often people are African and Muslim.

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Indeed they are, but they are not arab. I should maybe have added "arab muslims"

Volker said:

The Chinese have been the major foreign group at the university I studied at for years, when you look around in the library, especially on weekend there is a good chance there are more Chinese people there than German people. Don't forget, the teaching language is German. It's probably a question of conditions and jobs to have educated Chinese people be willing to live here.

Click to expand...

Of course it is a question of education and offering jobs, but Europe have plenty of decent jobs and oppoprtunities. I know there is already a lot of Chinese in different places in Europe, but personally I would like to see more Chinese and less arabs.
In my opinion we must not allow Turkey in the EU.

Volker said:

There are more than 40,000 Turks and more than 30,000 Moroccans, too, in Rotterdam.

It's not about religion or where someone comes from.

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I havent checked the numbers but you are probably right about that.
What we need to do is come up with a real immigration policy for the whole of Europe.

jfuh said:

The only way Europe will ever to gain better immigrants is by actually opening up it's borders to immigration. as of now countries such as Germany are far too shut off towards any immigration.
One of the many reasons why we the US are far more competitive than Europe is because of our far generous immigration opportunities, hence constant influx of fresh ideas.
I think it's a good think that you are contemplating these matters now.

Click to expand...

You probably know then that Germany has a large Turkish minority? Germany has open borders, maybe as open as the US.
I know its really a problem to immigrate to the US if you dont have 1.5 million USD and intend to start a business or you are highly skilled, like a scientist or something similar.
But you are right, immigration is a very important factor in development.
Humans are indeed the most valuable "commodity" in any country, human resources should not be overlooked or badly educated.

jfuh said:

Quite contrary, there is no other country in the world that is as open to immigration than the land of immigrants the USA - source1
Source 2

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Those links didnt work btw, nice try.

jfuh said:

From what I have come to understand from many Chinese and Korean immigrants, Europe is a fantasy, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the countries of europe unless you marry someone of the country, and even then, getting full rights and citizenship takes a long time. Also reference to the sources I've posted earlier.

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Thats almost like in the US.. But it is a sign Europe should open up more to immigration, especially well educated Asians, and educated Africans and those willing to do our "dirty work".

jfuh said:

As I said, immigration is but one of the many reasons why the Us is far ahead in competition against the EU exactly as the sources above have outlined.
Another would be in that we are a unified country, not broken up as the EU is, which is why, the 21st century is the century where the Atlantic becomes irrelevant and the Pacific becomes dominant. Well, the UK being a huge exception to that, those brits know where the wind blows from.

Click to expand...

American arent far ahead more competetive, thats a lie. If the dollar keeps falling, the Americans will turn poor in a few years, no matter how "competitive". There is nothing that can be dont in the US that cannot be done in Europe, nor the other way around.

Maximus Zeebra said:

As I see it, Africans in Europe are the best people in Europe, far better than the Europeans themself,

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But all in all, isnt it a good thing with African and Chinese immigrants rather than "troubled" muslim immigrants that "are up to no good".

Click to expand...

How can we make that happen, what would the advantages and disadvantages be besides the reduction in % of white Europeans in Europe..

I would rather the white European population be reduced by Chinese and Africans than Arabs(muslims).

Click to expand...

PeteEU said:

People from the Middle East and Africa. Uneducated and often very backward thinking people who cant fit into a modern western society. And often very religious, and that dont mix well in a very secular Europe.

Click to expand...

But as soon as the immigrants have the religious aspect then we have problems with them in Europe.

Click to expand...

Jay R said:

I cannot really add to PeteEU's assessment except to confirm it. Nobody wants poorly educated, unhealthy, and especially not culturally backward immigrants.

Click to expand...

Maximus Zeebra said:

Yes, but we could virtually stop immigration from non-EU countries, and single out the well educated. Or we could get muslims to take Europes worst jobs and educated Europeans better so they can take the top jobs.

Click to expand...

Indeed they are, but they are not arab. I should maybe have added "arab muslims"

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I know there is already a lot of Chinese in different places in Europe, but personally I would like to see more Chinese and less arabs.
In my opinion we must not allow Turkey in the EU.

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Posts like this are great to remember whenever I hear a European lament how Americans are so backwards, racist, and unsympathetic to the less fortunate.

RightatNYU said:

Posts like this are great to remember whenever I hear a European lament how Americans are so backwards, racist, and unsympathetic to the less fortunate.

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I never said America was backwards, I am just saying Americans egoes are to big for the reality. Americans had "negroes" or "boys" as they like to call them in the back of the busses and in seperate cafes and public spaces even after the racism of the second world war.

There is nothing unfortunate about being European.. I have the freedom to travel anywhere in Europe and see great cultures and history, I have the freedom to go to the Netherlands to get high, I have the freedom to go to Ireland to start a company enjoying one of the lowest taxes in the world and easiest business startups, I have the freedom to go to Germany and pick the best scientists and workers in the world, I have the freedom to take easy labour in France with a 35 hour week, I have the freedom to hire cheap workers for my company in eastern Europe. I have plenty more freedoms than those, but those are some of the huge advantages the Americans dont have as a "single country", since that is suppose to be so advantegeous.

RightatNYU said:

Posts like this are great to remember whenever I hear a European lament how Americans are so backwards, racist, and unsympathetic to the less fortunate.

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Its a fact btw that arab muslims in Europe are the least productive group of people..

Maximus Zeebra said:

Yes, but we could virtually stop immigration from non-EU countries, and single out the well educated.

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is fair to countries the countries where they come from.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Or we could get muslims to take Europes worst jobs and educated Europeans better so they can take the top jobs.

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I don't know about all of Europe, but I think, many of the worst jobs in Germany are already done by non-European people. Many of these jobs could have better conditions. This is not a good situation.

There are many Muslims who do very qualified jobs and they do them pretty good.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Indeed they are, but they are not arab. I should maybe have added "arab muslims".

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I did think, you draw the line there in this statement.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Of course it is a question of education and offering jobs, but Europe have plenty of decent jobs and oppoprtunities. I know there is already a lot of Chinese in different places in Europe, but personally I would like to see more Chinese and less arabs.
In my opinion we must not allow Turkey in the EU.

Click to expand...

Turkey could help the EU getting stronger and more competitive.

Maximus Zeebra said:

I havent checked the numbers but you are probably right about that.
What we need to do is come up with a real immigration policy for the whole of Europe.

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Yes, this is true. It should be more an European issue and it should be more understandable for the people.

Volker said:

I wonder if this is fair to countries the countries where they come from.

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I didnt say we should, I just said we could, which means we could do that and take in untrained immigrants in certain numbers.

Volker said:

I don't know about all of Europe, but I think, many of the worst jobs in Germany are already done by non-European people. Many of these jobs could have better conditions. This is not a good situation.

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Hmm, you are probably right. Who doesnt want to be better paid?

Volker said:

There are many Muslims who do very qualified jobs and they do them pretty good.

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Thats probably true, but muslim arabs in Europe tends to do poorly in the "minority employment" reports.

Volker said:

I did think, you draw the line there in this statement.

Turkey could help the EU getting stronger and more competitive.

Yes, this is true. It should be more an European issue and it should be more understandable for the people.

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Turkey could help, yes, but they could also bring about 10s of millions of turkish immigrants upon Europe as a whole, if they did the "low jobs" in eastern Europe that might not be a problem.. But if they are unemployed in Germany or France or the UK it will turn into a problem.

Maximus Zeebra said:

I never said America was backwards,

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Didn't say you specifically did.

I am just saying Americans egoes are to big for the reality.

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Some might argue that this is a result of a European refusal to educate themselves about America, instead relying on foolish stereotypes.

Americans had "negroes" or "boys" as they like to call them in the back of the busses and in seperate cafes and public spaces even after the racism of the second world war.

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Yes, that was the 1950's. This is 2000+.

There is nothing unfortunate about being European.. I have the freedom to travel anywhere in Europe and see great cultures and history, I have the freedom to go to the Netherlands to get high, I have the freedom to go to Ireland to start a company enjoying one of the lowest taxes in the world and easiest business startups, I have the freedom to go to Germany and pick the best scientists and workers in the world, I have the freedom to take easy labour in France with a 35 hour week, I have the freedom to hire cheap workers for my company in eastern Europe. I have plenty more freedoms than those, but those are some of the huge advantages the Americans dont have as a "single country", since that is suppose to be so advantegeous.

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Uh, you do realize that Americans can take advantage of any of those same things, right?

Maximus Zeebra said:

I didnt say we should, I just said we could, which means we could do that and take in untrained immigrants in certain numbers.

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This sounds interesting.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Hmm, you are probably right. Who doesnt want to be better paid?

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No one I have heard of :mrgreen:

Maximus Zeebra said:

Thats probably true, but muslim arabs in Europe tends to do poorly in the "minority employment" reports.

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Think about the reason.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Turkey could help, yes, but they could also bring about 10s of millions of turkish immigrants upon Europe as a whole, if they did the "low jobs" in eastern Europe that might not be a problem.. But if they are unemployed in Germany or France or the UK it will turn into a problem.

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They could employ people in Germany or France or UK, too.

I don't have the data and the knowledge to make a forecast about the employment effect of an Turkish membership. When the East European countries joined the European Union, many people were like, a lot of jobs will go to East Europe. This happened, however, unemployment went down in Germany, too.

RightatNYU said:

Some might argue that this is a result of a European refusal to educate themselves about America, instead relying on foolish stereotypes.

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Uhhm, we see plenty of Americans failed politics. If you refer to me in specific, I actually lived half a year over there exactly to know how that society is. I must say I prefer Europe, it feels much safer and more free.

RightatNYU said:

Yes, that was the 1950's. This is 2000+.

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All the bickering and trashing of Europe on this forum is about postwar
Europe, like Americans still think Europe is, that doesnt mean the Germans didnt start world war 2, nor is it a reason not to believe they have racist tendencies.

RightatNYU said:

Uh, you do realize that Americans can take advantage of any of those same things, right?

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So, where in the US can you go and smoke cannabis in a cafe? Which stores in the US sell magic mushrooms legally(The Netherlands)?
How long does it take someone from America to go to Rome?
Where in America do a newly started company enjoy tax-free first 10 years? Where in America is corporate tax 12%(Ireland)?
I know its easy to start a company in America. Where in America can you find better workers than the Germans? Which state in America has 35(Germany, France) hours week with a minimum wage of €8.27 (~US$10.80) per hour(France)?
Where in the US might you find cheap labour like Europeans can find in Poland for example? Minimum MONTHLY wage in Poland is 233 €.


Btw. The only place in the US where gambling is allowed now after taking away the online gambling freedom is in Las Vegas and atlantic city. Europeans can gamble almost whereeverm they want, Europeans can also legally purchase sex in most countries, mostly in red light districts so they are not confined to rape like Americans.


Just to remind you...
"As of January 2007, the federal minimum wage is $5.15/hour" (the US)

"According to a study by the National Sleep Foundation, the average employed American works a 46-hour work week; 38% of the respondents in their study worked more than 50 hours per week. "

"Averaged worked week in France is 40.2 hours"

Maximus Zeebra said:

You probably know then that Germany has a large Turkish minority?

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How large in terms of exact numbers and ratio to the ethnic germanic population?

Maximus Zeebra said:

Germany has open borders, maybe as open as the US.

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:lamo, not even close

Maximus Zeebra said:

I know its really a problem to immigrate to the US if you dont have 1.5 million USD and intend to start a business or you are highly skilled, like a scientist or something similar.

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Hence your ignorance and stereotype towards the US. There's not a single part of this that is even half true. The US is by and afar the most generous when it comes to immigration. You hear the news media talk about illegal immigration from our southern border, but that is until you actually visit the southern states and see how much of a leech the problem is can you have a position to even begin to debate this issue. Compare that to your "large turkish" population. Incomparable on any scale.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Those links didnt work btw, nice try.

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THat's your problem. They work perfectly here. One is an entire PDF publication, the other is a link to the original source. Both of which would require you to have access to the publisher to begin with - both of which you can read the abstract even if you can not access the full article. The abstracts of which give already the full conclusion of the research.
So nice try in trying to discredit a valid source.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Thats almost like in the US.. But it is a sign Europe should open up more to immigration, especially well educated Asians, and educated Africans and those willing to do our "dirty work".

Click to expand...

Go onto a university campus and use their facilities and you can access the articles I've posted here. Even a public library should allow you access. If all that is too much, type into google of US vs European immigration and there are literally thousands of articles on the topic. All that is required is that you seek the information.

Maximus Zeebra said:

American arent far ahead more competetive, thats a lie. If the dollar keeps falling, the Americans will turn poor in a few years, no matter how "competitive". There is nothing that can be dont in the US that cannot be done in Europe, nor the other way around.

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If the dollar continues to fall that means that american products will be more competitive in trade because of "cheaper" products. The same benefit that China has had for the last 2 decades and why Beijing wants to anchor the yuan at 8 yuan to the dollar.
So your analysis is highly flawed.
Also there are many things that though can be done anywhere, however because of the structure of the US market as well as the overall culture of promoting innovation and tradition of out of the box thinking is why the US maintains a high technological lead over any other country in the world.
Though this innovative trend has been capped by moronic ideologs of the current administration however what is 8 years in the course of the history of an entire nation? Sure we're only but 200+ years but nevertheless 8 years does not negate 200 year old traditions. Europe however remains in the past. Unless Europe can break down it's political borders and forget the nonsense of your global domination days there is no way Europe will ever be able to raise it's head back as a dominant world power, it will be foreshadowed by the US and China.
And honestly I want Europe to be strong, because a strong Europe will mean increased communications, trade, scientific development and ultimately the breaking down of barriers to a smaller more connected global economy - increasing responsibilities and competition - all translates to a more peaceful and prosperous world. But simply, I do not see that as divided as you are.

Maximus Zeebra said:

Its a fact btw that arab muslims in Europe are the least productive group of people..

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Zedang (dunno how to properly spell his name) the infamous French soccer at the world cup last year falls into this category you call least productive. For the reason of the head butt it's quite obvious of the stereotype and prosecution towards this group from the majority population. Might explain of this groups unrest.

jfuh said:

How large in terms of exact numbers and ratio to the ethnic germanic population?

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There are 1,76 million Turkish people with a Turkish passport living in Germany, this is like 5 % of the population. There are a lot of Turkish people with a German passport, in 2003 for instance there were 50,000 Turkish people getting a German passport and there was nothing special in this year.

jfuh said:

:lamo, not even close

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The US has more than three times as much inhabitants and correct me, if I'm wrong, the number of immigrants to Germany don't differ much from the number of immigrants to the US, in both cases the numbers are between 700,000 and 1.5 million usually.

jfuh said:

:Hence your ignorance and stereotype towards the US. There's not a single part of this that is even half true. The US is by and afar the most generous when it comes to immigration. You hear the news media talk about illegal immigration from our southern border, but that is until you actually visit the southern states and see how much of a leech the problem is can you have a position to even begin to debate this issue. Compare that to your "large turkish" population. Incomparable on any scale.

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It should be possible to compare Turkish immigrants to Germany and legal immigrants to the US.

jfuh said:

THat's your problem. They work perfectly here. One is an entire PDF publication, the other is a link to the original source. Both of which would require you to have access to the publisher to begin with - both of which you can read the abstract even if you can not access the full article. The abstracts of which give already the full conclusion of the research.
So nice try in trying to discredit a valid source.

Click to expand...

They don't work for me, too. The first one brings no internet site at all and the second brings a site which says "Page not found".

jfuh said:

If the dollar continues to fall that means that american products will be more competitive in trade because of "cheaper" products. The same benefit that China has had for the last 2 decades and why Beijing wants to anchor the yuan at 8 yuan to the dollar.
So your analysis is highly flawed.

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If the US was so competetive, they would not need a falling dollar :mrgreen:

jfuh said:

And honestly I want Europe to be strong, because a strong Europe will mean increased communications, trade, scientific development and ultimately the breaking down of barriers to a smaller more connected global economy - increasing responsibilities and competition - all translates to a more peaceful and prosperous world. But simply, I do not see that as divided as you are.

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This sounds good.

jfuh said:

Zedang (dunno how to properly spell his name) the infamous French soccer at the world cup last year falls into this category you call least productive. For the reason of the head butt it's quite obvious of the stereotype and prosecution towards this group from the majority population. Might explain of this groups unrest.

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This was not stereotype and prosecution, this was inappropriate macho humor.
The two men were getting collegial again pretty soon.

Volker said:

There are 1,76 million Turkish people with a Turkish passport living in Germany, this is like 5 % of the population. There are a lot of Turkish people with a German passport, in 2003 for instance there were 50,000 Turkish people getting a German passport and there was nothing special in this year.

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Germany has more than 82 million inhabitants, so 1.76 million Turkish people only make like 2.1%.

How will I ever become competitive :mrgreen:

Russia has already created a law that bans most non-Russians from holding jobs. This type of mentality is what lead to the cold war. If Vladimir Pu-tard doesn't quickly remove his head from another part of his anatomy, there will be no immigration or tourism in Russia.

This is the type of mentality the europe takes toward immigration. Germany and France are just as bad.

I don't think a mass-immigration would be tolerated by most european countries.