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Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street excess

Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Vance, do you seriously think most people (investors) knew about deriatives and credit default swaps, and how risky they were? Of course not. After all, when you have Standards and Poors to tell you otherwise, then one feels much more assurance. Some people invest in Wall Street and others run Wall Street. There is a big difference. It was the ones that ran the show that ****ed up everything that we all have been bitching about the last few years.

(I really strongly recommend you want the Frontline piece. It's excellent journalism.)
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Hell yeah, the Banks been writing law long enough, time to give someone else a chance. eace
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Good arguement against Bain Capital! :lamo:lamo:lamo:lamoeace
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

No...I think 'most people' during that time period were interested in shletering as much of their taxes as possible, in overextending themselves on credit cards, and buying homes they couldnt afford based on ARMs so they could find a way to turn a nice little profit for themselves. Heck...I KNOW college students were taking out student loans (and loans not just for their 'education'-you know...that degree in culinary school, massage therapy, a worthless liberal arts degree, etc, but also for 'living/partying' expenses. If you dont think average Joe Schmuk isnt as invested in gaming the systems to make a buck, just on a smaller scale, than those that were doing things within the banking system then I think you are fooling yourself and frankly...I dont think you are fooling yourself.

You will never find anywhere were I have excused corrupt practices and by all means they should fix corruption. Heck, I'm one of the first and maybe THE first very fiscal conservative type here that will come out loudly and say there has to be an increase in taxes-and have said so for what...2 years now? But not before the other components of a 'fix' are in place and certainly not as a means of putting more revenue in the hands of the government. Demonizing one segment of society as 'the problem' (and especially a segment so enmeshed with politicians on both sides of the aisle) is mere populism. Its telling a bunch of irresponsible people...look at them...its all their fault...get em! It is...in a word...bull****.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

Hey, I got an Idea, let's raise the tax rate on those succesfull entertainers making more than say, $250K a year. Heck while we're at it let's include all making $250 K or above.
Let us also add a "FEE" of .5% on Wall St. transactions. eace
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc



I couldn't disagree anymore. While I do agree that credit was (is) a problem, it has nothing to do with the financial collapse (well, aside from the faulty mortgages). And I just don't think you fully understand the practices used by these predatory lenders and what they did to get them. Hint: they didn't care one iota if the loans were paid back or defaulted. Pretty shocking, isn't it? Once again, I urge you to watch the Frontline piece that hits hard on both the Dems and Republicans. You won't regret it.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

Its not shocking and anyone that considered those 'predatory' loans was complicit. BTW...what a misnomer. Im sorry...people KNEW what they were doing. They knew they were in over their heads. They didnt care. They managed to excuse and to justify. They SOUGHT the loans...it wasnt the other way around.

Im not shocked we disagree. You want to focus on the bankers. I focus on EVERYONE. I am exasperated by all the people running around making excuses for their miserable existence and failings. Its not their fault...the evil banks made them dump credit cards, car payments, and every other debt they had into loans they couldnt afford to buy a house they couldnt afford...it was the banks fault. Sorry...everyones dirty from the politicians to the bankers to the private citizen that cheats on his or her taxes. Everyone carries the responsibility and is going to have to shoulder the load if it is going to change. Or...not. Continue to blame the bankers. Join the crowd...lots of willing people right along with you.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


You could not be more wrong.

Does it not bother you that the lenders did not care about repayment? :doh
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

Middleground said:
You could not be more wrong.

Does it not bother you that the lenders did not care about repayment? :doh
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Bothers me to the extent I advocated congress making 3 little changes in the laws...1-no bailout of any kind, 2-insisting banks negotiate long term low fixed interest rates for borrowers under water, and 3-any lender that went bankrupt was on the hook for the amount and the home title went to the borrower free and clear. I understand how the game is played....better than most. I have several investment properties and I was one of those people considering getting in over my head on our 'dream' property. I also completely get their are 2 players in every home loan.

The system was screwed up. Bankers took advantage of it and oh baby, you better believe...so did borrowers. You want to keep mindlessly demonizing the eeeeeviil bankers...go right ahead. That solves...well...nothing...but...ok.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

ttwtt78640 said:
WOW. Some lefty loons have invented a new tax.
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That **** gets old, from both sides. It gets old. Just so you know, I'm getting to the point that when I read that tripe from right or left I immediately stop reading the post. I don't have to read anymore because I know that the poster isn't really looking for an agreeable solution. What they want is their side to be right. This ain't a football game we're talking about. If all you are interested in your side being right then you have nothing to offer.
 
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The problem is both and that is why I call it corpgov. Neither part is responsible to the people whose money they took without consent. Think of it as a tax on Americans taken without and given to gambling whores who know government will make certain their bets are covered. In fact they own government and government now controls the People.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Budget deficits are simply the result of gov't spending more than taxation covers. This nation now spends 40% more than it dare ask for in taxation. A "plan" to add more taxation, targetting a single category of business transactions that just happen to be the NAMED target group of OWS, is a bit more than "coincidence", IMHO. Since you decided NOT to even read the post, that you responded to, you could not see that it contained an ALTERNATE VOLUNTARY new revenue proposal, as well as a call for reduced gov't spending. Most of us, do not have the option of simply demanding a raise from our boss, when we find that we spend more money than our pay covers, we must "budget" and live within our means, based on CURRENT income. The OWS crowd as yet to come to grips with this basic fact, and continue to believe that the gov't may not only spend ALL that it now does, but far, far MORE if only some anonymous "rich guys" and big corporations would simply pay over 40% more in taxes than they now pay.

Do YOU support this "Robinhood tax plan", and if so, can you tell me how much money YOU think it would generate? It is EASY to say TAX THE RICH, but much harder to look beyond that, just a WEE bit, and see that "the rich" are no more than those that provide the goods and services which are consumed by ALL; that added cost of taxation WILL BE added to the costs of those goods and services that we ALL use, so we will ALL pay more taxes. That REALLY hurts those at the bottom MOST, since they must now spend ALL of their pay on those goods and services - they then must simply make do with less of these goods and services, when their price goes up due to added taxation.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

VanceMack said:
At the end of the day...Wall Street is a BUSINESS. It is a business designed to make profit. Wealthy people invest. Low to mid income people invest. This continued insistence on demonizing Wall Street and scapegoating them is mindless.
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Everyone in the proposed bill in the OP will be taxed the same percentage. How is that unfair? I don't understand the argument. If I invest, if Romney invests, if Tom Cruise invest the stock market, if a little old pensioner on a fixed income buys a few shares ALL pay the same less than 1% tax. What part of that is unfair?


Because they have proven to be unworthy of trust. Because when they make "mistakes" the world stumbles to its knees to pay for Wall Street unforgivable greed and corruption. Because we can't keep paying. Because we have little to no say in the risks taken, but because Wall Street owns Congress and the White House we pony up the money. When the bets payoff the 1% makes massive gains. Because what they have done is often illegal and Washington will do little about it.

Because they are successful.
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NO! They are not successful. They lost their collective asses playing with someone else's money and then playing with money on money and credit on money and then money on credit for things they didn't own! There were NOT successful. They were greedy and reckless and foolish and selfish and they ****ed up. They ****ed it up. And they have not learned that they cannot do that and get away with. Most did get away with it. That's what they've learned. Recently JP Morgan, for Christsakes, did it again. Why? Because they can. They really have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

But they were not successful. They failed. But the same system remains in place so that they will continue to have Jane and Joe Sixpack cover their losses when they fail again.


That is argument is not related to the OP. You are attempting to divert the argument. It is completely unrelated.


Again that's worthy of consideration but it isn't what the OP is addressing.

I believe we'd all like to see farm subsidies drastically reduced. Everyone wants oil subsidies to end. Most people want to reduced military spending. Most everyone want to end earmarks and pork barrel legislation. Most Americans want a reduction in foreign spending. We all want more responsible government. Most of us know that we will not get more responsible government from Democrats or Republicans. They are very much a part of the problem. They cannot be part of the solution. I agree that is a huge issue. However, none of that is germane.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


OK. That reduces the federal deficit from its current 40% to 38%. The next baby step is?
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

They are successful...thats the only reason people a-continue to demonize them and b-continue to look to them as the 'solution'. But again...by what right do you promote targeting a tax on one segment of society and how do you expect that to NOT look like exactly what it is? Tax the rich. Tax the one percent. Tax Wall Street. Tax the bankers. Why? Because thats how people choose to make their money? Why not an across the board tax on any and every purchase over 100 dollars in every market? Why not an entertainment tax? Dont blame individuals, dont blame congress, dont target entertainers (even though last I checked they really really really wanted us to). No...target 'Wall Street'. Why? Because the message plays to the kids...doesnt it.

Tax EVERYONE. Gut spending. Or...not. Keep playing the kind of mindless populist games that continue to exacerbate the problem.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

VanceMack said:
Lets start with who is/should be proposing what.
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It started in the UK in Feb of 2010

An actor (fairly wealthy I might add) and a musician (perhaps less, depending on how their contract was created...and say...I wonder if they have any investments...)
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Well these "famous people" have become the spokesmen of the tax.

have precisely the same role in 'proposals' as Babs in the White House.
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Really?
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

Mycroft said:
Well, they got THIS part wrong...why should I think they have anything right?
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Wall Street didnt create the economic crisis!?:shock:
Who did then!?
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

So the point is a <1% tax on wall street is so terrible? :roll:
It has the power to raise hundreds of billions of dollars that can go to our infanstructure, social programs, and to help fix the debt. Instead we are too worried about "what makes you have the right to take money from these people"? Well guess what!? THEY TOOK MONEY FROM US (THE PEOPLE)!
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


It's actually been proposed in the past as a way to eliminate problems caused by microtransactions.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

TheDemSocialist said:
It started in the UK in Feb of 2010


Well these "famous people" have become the spokesmen of the tax.


Really?
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Yes...'really'. And yes...by all means...let the rich Hollywood types promote whatever anti Wall Street hysteria they choose. And when a congressman actually proposes the legislation then we have a debate on our hands. Curious though that he still attacks Wall Street and isnt offering said tax on...say...movies, popcorn, actors, and recording artists transactions.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Were having a debate on our hand right know Vance...
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

TheDemSocialist said:
Wall Street didnt create the economic crisis!?:shock:
Who did then!?
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Primarily, the congress did. They changed the mortgage lending and insurance laws to try to increase private home ownership, creating the "sub-prime" mortgage mess. The bankers, and by extension the morgage backed security dirivatives market, was flooded with this worthless paper (mortgages that were backed by property worth less than the mortgage balance and either unoccupied or occupied by people now unable to pay the INCREASED payments due). When these "troubled assets" were held by many, many financial institutions the gov't tried, via the TARP bailouts, to prop these financial folks up to prevent a global financial panic. The alternative, letting those left holding them AND the gov't backed mortgage insurance giants of Fannie and Freddie totally collapse, was seen as even worse.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis
 
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Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Congress indeed had a lot to play on this. But it was more through relaxation of proper regulation and allowing banks to leverage through the roof. Which they did. And that's fine, you can make a **** ton o' money doing so; but if the system starts to falter while you're leveraged high, you're gonna lose your shirt. And indeed that's what happened. Then you look at the mess on Wall Street and the improper regulations there and it all snowballed.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc


Doubtful. It would do nothing more than restrict the flow of money between financial institutions, until someone comes up with the workaround.
 
Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

TheDemSocialist said:
Wall Street didnt create the economic crisis!?:shock:
Who did then!?
Click to expand...

If you haven't read ttwtt78640's answer, then I suggest you do. He hit the nail on the head.
 
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