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That's a funny moving of the goalposts.
That's a funny moving of the goalposts.You have never encountered a materialist. You just make up straw men materialists. Materialists don’t say that dreams don’t exist, they just say how they exist. As physical phenomena in the physical brain.
Lisa attempted to stigmatize religion by attributing to all practitioners the desire to escape rationality.Yet you claim to read his mind and know exactly what motivated him. You have no idea either but make claims based on your own need to believe that people are motivated purely by ideology and belief. So we are at a stalemate.
You of course did not object to this nonsensical interpretation. But when I point out that Stalin committed mass murder in defense of a supposedly rational system, you quibble about whether or not he believed it and choose to believe that his Communist rhetoric doesn't matter because you read his mind and don't think he was a "believer." To an accurate ethical POV, it doesn't mean if either Stalin or Torquemada really believed in their professed beliefs. Lisa falsely aligned all bad ethics with religion. Stalin had bad ethics and he professed non-religious Communism, so conflating religion with bad ethics is a false notion.You are confusing religious belief with ethics. Religious belief is far from being ethical. Religion a ritualistic concept that protects people from having to think rationally about life, morality and death.
Exactly how Jeremy Renner described itNDE is much like or part of what Japanese Buddhists called satori. It is knowing, an experience, an understanding that as far as I know cannot be adequately explained. It must be experienced to be understood.
Once years ago I had a very strange experience though it was not an NDE. I think I might have a smidgen of understanding as to how NDEs exist and WHY they cannot be adequately explained in human language, which beyond the material world is limited.
I knew next to nothing of Buddhism at the time. The experience was most certainly real as is the understanding I gained. What I do know is the knowledge I gained came in being, not in explanation or language; just being in the experience. As result of the brief and completely unexpected event I know a few things that I cannot adequately explain.
Briefly I will give it a shot, which will be unsatisfactory to everyone. It's not in the telling. It is in the knowing and I cannot produce such an experience. In fact, as of yet I am unable to replicate it even for myself.
We are truly one with everything. I have experienced that. I can tell you that and brilliant minds may tell you that but you cannot comprehend it because you have yet to experience it.
Animals, water, the wind, all living things, all things are ONE. It is a knowing, a feeling or a being beyond explanation. It is a feeling of complete peace, freedom and love (I suppose). But those words, like trying to explain an NDE, in no way give you the knowledge. I understand why many or most people cannot accept it.
Exactly how Jeremy Renner described it
And you only experienced the very early parts of an OBE.Wow! Bingo. There it is. In my experience it was much the same. The peace and the calm can’t be described. The experience was far beyond words.
One is all. Seamless. Everything. I say love because all the negatives that we experience in human form was gone. No beginning, no end. No anger, no hatred.
I know exactly what you are talking about, I have experienced the same thing. The experience belongs only to the person having the experience, you can not explain it because unless another person had a similar experience it's very hard to understand. It's not a material mind thing, it is a knowing that resonates with every part of your being and it can not be adequately put into words because words don't do it justice. When I came away from my experience I had a knowing that all things belongs to this Oneness, there is nowhere to go to separate yourself from it. Knowing this shattered by belief system, I no longer believe, I know, and like you, this brought me such a peace and calmness. I no longer have to defend my understanding, because for me, I know.NDE is much like or part of what Japanese Buddhists called satori. It is knowing, an experience, an understanding that as far as I know cannot be adequately explained. It must be experienced to be understood.
Once years ago I had a very strange experience though it was not an NDE. I think I might have a smidgen of understanding as to how NDEs exist and WHY they cannot be adequately explained in human language, which beyond the material world is limited.
I knew next to nothing of Buddhism at the time. The experience was most certainly real as is the understanding I gained. What I do know is the knowledge I gained came in being, not in explanation or language; just being in the experience. As result of the brief and completely unexpected event I know a few things that I cannot adequately explain.
Briefly I will give it a shot, which will be unsatisfactory to everyone. It's not in the telling. It is in the knowing and I cannot produce such an experience. In fact, as of yet I am unable to replicate it even for myself.
We are truly one with everything. I have experienced that. I can tell you that and brilliant minds may tell you that but you cannot comprehend it because you have yet to experience it.
Animals, water, the wind, all living things, all things are ONE. It is a knowing, a feeling or a being beyond explanation. It is a feeling of complete peace, freedom and love (I suppose). But those words, like trying to explain an NDE, in no way give you the knowledge. I understand why many or most people cannot accept it.
Stalin was a megalomanic. Megalomaniacs are known for killing millions. Has nothing to do with religion, though religion has typically been used as a defense.Stalin killed millions in defense of a non-religious belief system.
You think megalomaniacs think rationally. So cute.Was his materialism the result of his having thought rationally about life, morality and death?
The point you've conveniently ignored is that I responded to a poster who claimed that religion was illegitimate because it had been used for mass murder. Regardless of what Stalin personally believed, he used a materialistic belief system to coax others into helping him commit mass murder. The parallels should be obvious.Stalin was a megalomanic. Megalomaniacs are known for killing millions. Has nothing to do with religion, though religion has typically been used as a defense.
I have no reason to think Stalin didn't use his rational intellect to dope out how he could hoax others into committing his murders for him, so that he could better consolidate power-- at which goal he was pretty damn successful.You think megalomaniacs think rationally. So cute.
Wring answer.The point you've conveniently ignored
Wrong blah blah.is that I responded to a poster who claimed that religion was illegitimate because it had been used for mass murder. Regardless of what Stalin personally believed, he used a materialistic belief system to coax others into helping him commit mass murder. The parallels should be obvious.
I have no reason to think Stalin didn't use his rational intellect to dope out how he could hoax others into committing his murders for him, so that he could better consolidate power-- at which goal he was pretty damn successful.
"Stay focused?" Focused on what? You conveniently ignoring the fact that the "megalomaniac" convinced hundreds if not thousands of Russians that he was not any sort of maniac, but the key to the success of the Russian people?Wring answer.
Wrong blah blah.
Stalin. Megalomaniac. Stay focused.
You've really outdone yourself. Atheism bad because Stalin.
Yes"Stay focused?
Try answering the question that you cut out.
I can relate to a lot of what tis young lady is talking about.There are thousands of these accounts every year
I died for eight minutes... my encounter proves the soul never dies
Clinically dead for eight minutes, a Colorado woman says she returned with a vivid, otherworldly experience that defies science and now shaking up how we think about life after death.www.dailymail.co.uk
No, thanks. Your posts are too, too trying for me.
The problem with bad puns is that only the one voicing them likes them.No, thanks. Your posts are too, too trying for me.
Define evidence.Evidence for an afterlife is at a similar level to that for Bigfoot and werewolves.
That's a funny moving of the goalposts.The original goalposts can be seen in the OP. To pursue the football metaphor, either you belong to the anti-materialist team, which tries to score between the posts that read "NDEs indicate that the afterlife is real," while the opposing materialist team is trying to score between the posts that read "NDEs do not prove that the afterlife is real." You have made the very funny attempt to pretend that the interpretation of NDEs as dreams provide the only goalposts on the field. The materialists have formed what you call the dream-hypothesis (which is not even a good statement of the OBE hypothesis) in reaction to the statements of the anti-materialists. You forfeit and the ball goes to your opponents for a kickoff.
There are thousands of these accounts every year
I died for eight minutes... my encounter proves the soul never dies
Clinically dead for eight minutes, a Colorado woman says she returned with a vivid, otherworldly experience that defies science and now shaking up how we think about life after death.www.dailymail.co.uk
Lisa attempted to stigmatize religion by attributing to all practitioners the desire to escape rationality.
You of course did not object to this nonsensical interpretation. But when I point out that Stalin committed mass murder in defense of a supposedly rational system, you quibble about whether or not he believed it and choose to believe that his Communist rhetoric doesn't matter because you read his mind and don't think he was a "believer." To an accurate ethical POV, it doesn't mean if either Stalin or Torquemada really believed in their professed beliefs. Lisa falsely aligned all bad ethics with religion. Stalin had bad ethics and he professed non-religious Communism, so conflating religion with bad ethics is a false notion.
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