galenrox said:Well I mean, isn't it obvious? Somehow your stance differing from his proves that you are using the same logic as a man who killed a bunch of people in the 70s because his neighbor Sam's dog told him to, I mean, gosh, how are you this dense!:lol:
Naughty Nurse said:Or "because the Bible says so"?
People should speak the language of the country they live in. Full stop.
HTColeman said:No, "because the Bible says so" is perfectly good evidence, but this topic isn't in the Bible...
They should but why make them, that is their own choice, offer it to them, suggest they do, show them the benefits, but in the end it is their choice to succeed or to just get by.
Naughty Nurse said:A book that many consider to be fiction is good evidence? :rofl
I have lived in a non English speaking country, and I felt obliged to learn something of the local language. It is not only necessary, it is polite and shows a little respect.
If you don't want to learn another language, stay in your own country. Simple.
HTColeman said:yep
Admitted there are many benefits of learning the language, but why make them learn the language?
Calm2Chaos said:You figure out a way .. End of story. Stop giving everybody a excuse to fail. They want it they can do it. You want to give them reason they can't, I want to give them reason they can. If your so broke you cant come up with 90 dollars in 5-7 years then your in the exact same poverty rut I spoke of. I don't know if learning the language will help everyone, but it can't hurt in the long run.
Naughty Nurse said:The Bible, I am lead to believe, does not oppose slavery. Got anything to say about that?
galenrox said:Then pick me some cotton boy, God says so!!!
KIDDING!!!
shuamort said:Naughty Nurse, why are you talking about the Bible in this thread suddenly?
galenrox said:Well I mean, isn't it obvious? Somehow your stance differing from his proves that you are using the same logic as a man who killed a bunch of people in the 70s because his neighbor Sam's dog told him to, I mean, gosh, how are you this dense!:lol:
Kelzie said:So you're proposing taking $90 away from a person working to send money home so his family won't starve for an idea you don't even know will work? I realize that being more privileged than they are, you might not know what they go through, but many of them have six kids, a wife and two sets of parents that rely on their income.
Naughty Nurse said:Temper, temper.
Actually, I agree with you 100%. I think that if you move to another country on a long-term basis you have an obligation to develop at least a rudimentary day-to-day knowledge of the local language.
HTColeman said:It is not your business to expect something from anyone, cuz I guaruntee they don't care what you expect. All I am saying, they shouldn't be forced that additional cost just because...why are yall so concerned making them learn English? "Because they live in the country" is the equivelant of "Because that is just the way it should be" or "Because I said so"
Calm2Chaos said:It's under the heading of "You live here, you plan on raising a family here, you plan on taking advantage of programs and assistance provided here, you hope to make a life here". And for all that possibility all I am asking for is a basic working knowledge of the language. But I guess it's easier not to want anything and provide reasons and scapegoats as to why your situation is what it is or is not getting better or your american dream just isn't coming to flourishen. Anyone of these or many more reasons are why. But you just keep giving the incentive to fail, thats always a sound strategy.
HTColeman said:Its not my business whether they fail or not, that is their own perogative, and I happen to believe in people having their own perogatives. It may sound uncaring, but let people live their own lives, don't make laws telling people how to live.
Calm2Chaos said:GREAT.. But when they fail they end up on welfare, unemployment, WIC any number of governement programs. I am not going to say in they learn the language this won't happen. I just believe that it gives them an advantage to succede. And the truth is I don't see the harm in expecting a little something from people. There are expectations of every single person in this country. Wether you live up to them is different.
Mikkel said:There are societal expectations and federal ones. As a society, we expect (especially those of us interested in politics) that those who vote will be voting on informed decisions, rather than going to the polls and punching in holes. There is no law against doing this, thus it is not a federal expectation. We have a societal and federal expectation that we won't go around killing each other. If you don't live up to this expectation you will be disciplined by the government. I'd say that, for most people at least, knowing how to speak english should be a societal expectation, not a federal one. Maybe we should take a poll...
Mikkel said:There are societal expectations and federal ones. As a society, we expect (especially those of us interested in politics) that those who vote will be voting on informed decisions, rather than going to the polls and punching in holes. There is no law against doing this, thus it is not a federal expectation. We have a societal and federal expectation that we won't go around killing each other. If you don't live up to this expectation you will be disciplined by the government. I'd say that, for most people at least, knowing how to speak english should be a societal expectation, not a federal one. Maybe we should take a poll...
You're throwing the word "fact" around quite loosely. As I've shown previously in this thread, the facts are negating your commentary in regards to immigrants and their progeny learning English.Calm2Chaos said:But the fact is thats not what seems to happen.
shuamort said:You're throwing the word "fact" around quite loosely. As I've shown previously in this thread, the facts are negating your commentary in regards to immigrants and their progeny learning English.
Mikkel said:But what hard evidence do you have that 1st generation immigrants don't learn the language?
And the citizenship tests are done in English only.Calm2Chaos said:By the way I don't think I ever said none speak english. ANd I never said none of the immigrants learn the language upon arrival. What I am saying is for the percentage that don't or won't learn the language it should be needed for citizenship
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