• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***[W:1213]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

apdst said:
If you can't defend it, don't post it.
Click to expand...

If you can't follow a conversation, don't try to troll up a thread.

Lursa and I were discussing, and she knew what I meant. You didn't, because you didn't follow the conversation. That's your issue, not anyone else's.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:
Answer my question first please. To make sure there's no hypocrisy....or divulge if there is.
Click to expand...

Hypocrisy regarding what exactly? Driving a car? I do not get the attempted connection you are trying to make between driving a car and owning a gun.

Its a red herring that you are dishonestly attempting to employ to avoid answering a direct questions as to if you think people of unsound mind should own guns.

We can argue all day about cars and guns but what is the point?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


There are very clear differences. First the particular Ruger Mini 14 in that picture would be illegal where I live because of the flash suppressor and the high capacity magazine would be illegal as well. Secondly with the absence of the pistol grip the Ruger would harder to hold with a just one hand with the rifle in the down and ready position and it's heavier than the typical AR 15 style rifle. The Ruger's magazine release is forward of the trigger guard so your trigger finger has off and out to depress it. The magazine release on the Ruger is also much smaller and not as easy and quick to manipulate a AR 15 style which is larger and extended and easily manipulated by your thumb. The magazine well on the Ruger is flush to bottom and has straight edges. Whereas the AR15 style weapon has an extended magazine well with an opening that is flared outwards in order to facilitate easier and quicker insertions. I don't know if you have ever shot a Ruger Mini 14. But you can't just slap in a new magazine straight into it. You have to 'rock' the magazine slightly forward in order to get the magazine into the well to get to where it catches and anyone who has used a mini 14 knows that getting a magazine to lock in can sometimes be tedious and annoying.

Also hurricane glass windows are bullet resistant, not bullet proof. So heavier FMJ 5.56 military rounds might well have been able to eventually overwhelm that glass window and I know enough about fire arms without ever having gone directly up against an active shooter to know that high velocity rifle rounds are far more deadly than any handgun or shotgun pellet.
 
Last edited:
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


There is no point
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


Does this help clarify it for you? To see it all in one place?



haymarket said:
You want people who are not of sound mind to have guns?
Click to expand...

Lursa said:
So by that same conclusion, why are these people still allowed to drive?
Click to expand...

haymarket said:
I did not ask you about driving . We were talking about guns. Do you want people who are of not sound mind to have guns?
Click to expand...


The hypocrisy is obvious. If you are going to prevent SS recipients from owning firearms for reasons of public safety based on the criteria of 'sound mind'...why are they allowed to retain their driving privileges?

In one case it's depriving them of a Constitutional right, in the other, a privilege that they may use on a regular basis...making it potentially much more dangerous.

And we were ONLY discussing the SS legislation. Dont pretend otherwise.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

tres borrachos said:
If you can't follow a conversation, don't try to troll up a thread.

Lursa and I were discussing, and she knew what I meant. You didn't, because you didn't follow the conversation. That's your issue, not anyone else's.
Click to expand...

It's reposted in 880.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


My personal opinion is that driving a car in modern day America is about 6,389 times more important to daily life and the demands of it for the vast majority of people than owning a gun that probably 95% will never use for anything other than perhaps target practice.

My personal opinion is that if a person is mentally ill and is declared so by a doctor, and the state wants to revoke their driving license because of that, I have no problem with it.

Now your turn to answer my question: do you want a person who is not of sound mind to own guns?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:
It's reposted in 880.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure apdst is going to care. He saw what he wanted, jumped in, and trolled it up. Frustrating as hell.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


Atomic Kid, just stop. Most of that is wrong. I actually used to shoot both those weapons as did MANY other GI's here who will tell you. The thing about harder to hold is total bull****. No truth to it whatsoever. Obviously you went online and looked up crap from a couple of message boards.


Some DID go through the glass, they however could not shatter it. Some were stuck in the glass and some went all the way through. He also had low quality ammunition where the bullets were falling out of the casing. Combine this with a low quality rifle and this means that a lot of them had improper pressure when firing.

Just stop embarrassing yourself man. I was in the Army for 12 years and a cop. Been around these weapons all my life. All you are doing is spouting some other person's opinion from an obvious online search and comming to really bad and dangerous conclusions.
 
Last edited:
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


So then you are ok with them discriminating against people for no good reason? They are not as worthy of a dr's diagnosis as to their capability, rather than govt bureaucracy? That their rights can be violated by rote bureaucracy? That answer appears to be yes.

It's interesting that you're ok with them potentially endangering everyone everday by a huge margin of risk tho. So indeed, public safety is NOT your primary interest.

And my answer to your question is no, I am not ok with people not of sound mind owning guns. I have posted repeatedly that we need to be able to identify and treat these people before they do harm and that background checks that include this criteria are good.

It also has nothing to do with the SS legislative repeal, because my belief was that it was spurious and targeted people whether they were actually judged to be of sound mind or not. And they're not.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:
So then you are ok with them discriminating against people for no good reason?
Click to expand...

Please stop right there. Put on your brakes. Stop it.

The reason is that the person is not of sound mind.

Do you comprehend that?

If not, there is no reason to go any further as I never thought I would live to see the day when gun fanatics defend the rights of the mentally ill to own guns but I guess we have crossed over into full blows CRAZYLAND and that is where you want to plant your flag. I hope not. I really hope not.

I hope this is your answer and you mean it


And those people who have ADMITTED that they have disabling mental problems to Social Security fall into that obvious category by their own admission.
 
Last edited:
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


No...there's no current diagnosis of such. They are discriminated against because they choose or have designated someone to do their finances. That's the criteria they used for this piece of junk legislation...that doesnt make it a legitimate criteria.

And again...if *you believe* they are not 'of sound mind' to do that, then it's incredibly dishonest of you to agree they are safe to drive on our roads.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

haymarket said:
Please stop right there. Put on your brakes. Stop it.

The reason is that the person is not of sound mind.
Click to expand...

Said the same guy who calls the President a Madman, you would apply your baseless standard to as many as possible to disarm your countrymen. We see you, no one is fooled.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


How did these people get classified by Social Security as mentally ill in the first place?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Spartacus FPV said:
Said the same guy who calls the President a Madman, you would apply your baseless standard to as many as possible to disarm your countrymen. We see you, no one is fooled.
Click to expand...

Trump is a mandman... he is seriously mentally ill. The book THE DANGEROUS CASE OF DONALD TRUMP features 27 mental health professionals who present that case very clearly.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

haymarket said:
How did these people get classified by Social Security as mentally ill in the first place?
Click to expand...

Well for ex. veterans were diagnosed with PTSD in many cases decades before.

If they've not gone off on shooting binges in all that time, are no longer under a Dr's care for that...why would they be discriminated against when they collect SS?

Are you saying all veterans that have had PTSD diagnoses are not of sound mind?

(And btw, that's not a prohibition from them legally owning firearms either)
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

tres borrachos said:
If you can't follow a conversation, don't try to troll up a thread.

Lursa and I were discussing, and she knew what I meant. You didn't, because you didn't follow the conversation. That's your issue, not anyone else's.
Click to expand...

If you make a comment, expect a response.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

The article says his interest in animal torture was evident from social media postings, also that he posted a picture of the "Born to Kill" t-shirt, so these might not have been known to teachers at the school, but it also said one student remarked about the trench-coat, that the guy wore it all the time (despite high temperatures) that this was his usual appearance. One would expect his teachers may have noticed that, maybe someone could have asked what was that about? Teachers could have asked him about the Nazi medals, whether he was a sympathizer, expressed concern over this to his parents.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:
Can you explain any of that psychobabble? It makes no sense. Laws are supposed to have a purpose, yes. And laws can be changed or 'restricted.' No idea what you're trying to say.

But you're keeping the drama high, for sure.
Click to expand...

You heard me- Laws are important too!

You said guns, can't be restricted? Duh? Where do you get that kind of psychobabble? Huh

Wait! You weren't referring to the real psychobabble in the 2nd amendment that state's the people's right's to own guns will not be "infringed" were you?

There is the psychobabble right there! The 2nd amendment is psychobabble for you psychos out there that think the Constitution prevents us from establishing laws to control firearms on any level.

Hilarious! Keep the humor coming- OK?

We already control the sale of firearms in this country! And now, we obviously need additional controls to keep you idiots from killing each other!
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


Hey just because I'm here advocating for better gun control laws and regulations doesn't mean that I'm anti-gun. Matter of fact I like guns a lot and have owned more than a few at one time or another and have fired quite a few including the mini 14. I have subscribed to gun magazines and have multiple email subscriptions and YouTube gun channels I subscribe to as well. So I have had an active interest in them for a long time. I don't own any now but I'm considering getting one now because a serious injury has made it difficult for me to now be able to physically defend myself as ably as I could before. It's a decision I'm still kicking around with the merits of because I never carried or intended to use any of the guns I owned before for personal defense. Just sport and entertainment mostly.


I don't know if any rounds actually succeeded in fully penetrating the window as I haven't seen that anywhere. But if he was using cheap or sub par ammo as you say it's fortunate then that he did as I think good military grade ammo probably could have damaged the window to where it could have been kicked or knocked the rest of the way out. And the rifle he used was manufactured by Smith & Wesson and if you know anything about Smith & Wesson it is that they don't make low quality stuff.

I don't mean any disrespect for your service to our country but being in the military and a former cop is not the end all and be all of any argument about guns or anything else for that matter. That doesn't make you automatically smarter than anyone else. I have known quite a few people who are former military and a healthy number of them I can honestly say weren't any smarter when they come out than before they went in. Plus you have my BS detection meter creeping up into the danger zone because it would seem to me that anyone who claims to have as much experience as you have claimed would have been able to easily point out all basic differences between a Mini 14 and a AR 15 platforms. And there is a good reason why many states ban pistol grips on on rifles because they clearly make manipulation of the weapon easier. Just simple logic and commonsense should be able to tell you that.
 
Last edited:
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


santa fe high school was already a hardened school
it had previously experienced a mock live shooter incident
two armed security guards are detailed to the campus throughout the school day
and the first responders responded within four minutes
share with us what that school should have done to become more secure

for extra credit let us know why these shootings happen. with your COMMON SENSE, this should be an easy assignment
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


it has to do with mental competence
it is required in conducting one's financial affairs
and it is essential to safe handling and use of a fire arm

there is a reason why we are no longer drafting incompetents into our armed forces. you pointed it out
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


But did they have a swat team stationed in the lunch room. If not they were just asking for it
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

apdst said:
Who gets to decide who those people are?
Click to expand...

The same people who decide on all our laws as we have done throughout our entire history. You can help decide if you want to, as well as everyone who posts here. Where do you think laws come from?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS


We stopped drafting because it was no longer necessary. The American people had had enough of Vietnam.

Mental competence? What is mental competence when it comes to financial affairs? Are you saying if someone has say a bankruptcy on their recorde they should not be allowed to purchase or own a firearm? Or how about a car repossession? Bad credit score?

I am going to have to disagree with you here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…