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Lindsey Graham isn't happy with the Horowitz report

Lutherf

Lutherf

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He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
 
Lutherf said:


He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
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Of course he did. Problem is, there was an investigation into it, and it just found that no - the FISA courts were not lied to.
 
I'd like to see an investigation of the criminal investigation into the continuing investigation. Then surely we would see heads roll.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Of course he did. Problem is, there was an investigation into it, and it just found that no - the FISA courts were not lied to.
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Who found that the FISA court wasn't lied to? Horowitz? I haven't read all nearly 500 pages of the report yet but the findings seem to be that the investigation was very much flawed. Horowitz seems to blame the failings on policy and infrastructure failings. Graham seems to believe that an outright lie was involved. Barr and Durham also disagree with the Horowitz findings though they don't specify exactly what that disagreement is.
 
Lutherf said:
Who found that the FISA court wasn't lied to? Horowitz? I haven't read all nearly 500 pages of the report yet but the findings seem to be that the investigation was very much flawed.
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Yep.

Maybe you should at least read the executive summary at the beginning, and save us all some time.

Horowitz seems to blame the failings on policy and infrastructure failings. Graham seems to believe that an outright lie was involved. Barr and Durham also disagree with the Horowitz findings though they don't specify exactly what that disagreement is.
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Lindsey Graham is welcome to feel however he wants. But I'm going to take the word of a veteran investigator who has actually been investigating it for 2 years over a politician who has nothing to support his claim but feelings.
 
Lutherf said:

He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
Click to expand...


Graham is in luck.
The Senate has the ability to open investigations.
So, whenever he feels froggy, they can get an investigation rolling.
 
Graham long ago sold his soul to the devil that is Trump. He is engaging in his nearly daily kissing of the ass of his new god.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Graham is in luck.
The Senate has the ability to open investigations.
So, whenever he feels froggy, they can get an investigation rolling.
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Agreed
Graham constintantly talks out of both sides of his mouth and tries to straddle the fence. He needs to put his money where his mouth is or STFU.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Of course he did. Problem is, there was an investigation into it, and it just found that no - the FISA courts were not lied to.
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Like the House, the Senate can investigate anything they want.

And you are just going to have to sit there and take it. Horowitz is a bureaucrat review. Durham in a FBI investigator. Big difference where the rubber hits the road.

At least at the minimum, I hope Durham bankrupts everyone like Weissman and Mueller did.
 
chuckiechan said:
Like the House, the Senate can investigate anything they want.

And you are just going to have to sit there and take it. Horowitz is a bureaucrat review. Durham in a FBI investigator. Big difference where the rubber hits the road.

At least at the minimum, I hope Durham bankrupts everyone like Weissman and Mueller did.
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You hold on to that hope.

Any day now.
 
Lutherf said:


He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
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The report certainly suggests what Graham is saying.

From DOJ, 120919 Examination Report:

Conclusions Concerning All Four FISA Applications

We concluded that the failures described above and in this report represent serious performance failures by the supervisory and non-supervisory agents with responsibility over the FISA applications. These failures prevented OI from fully performing its gatekeeper function and deprived the decision makers the opportunity to make fully informed decisions. Although some of the factual misstatements and omissions we found in this review were arguably more significant than others, we believe t hat all of them taken together resulted in FISA applications that made it appear that the information supporting probable cause was stronger than was actually the case.

We identified at least 17 significant errors or omissions in the Carter Page FISA applications, and many additional errors in the Woods Procedures. These errors and omissions resulted from case agents providing wrong or incomplete information to OI and failing to flag important issues for discussion.​
 
ocean515 said:
The report certainly suggests what Graham is saying.

From DOJ, 120919 Examination Report:

Conclusions Concerning All Four FISA Applications

We concluded that the failures described above and in this report represent serious performance failures by the supervisory and non-supervisory agents with responsibility over the FISA applications. These failures prevented OI from fully performing its gatekeeper function and deprived the decision makers the opportunity to make fully informed decisions. Although some of the factual misstatements and omissions we found in this review were arguably more significant than others, we believe t hat all of them taken together resulted in FISA applications that made it appear that the information supporting probable cause was stronger than was actually the case.

We identified at least 17 significant errors or omissions in the Carter Page FISA applications, and many additional errors in the Woods Procedures. These errors and omissions resulted from case agents providing wrong or incomplete information to OI and failing to flag important issues for discussion.​
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...keep reading.

They outline all of those "mistakes".
 
Knowing the history of the FBI, I'm sure the mistakes here were just an aberration.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Of course he did. Problem is, there was an investigation into it, and it just found that no - the FISA courts were not lied to.
Click to expand...

You haven't read the report have you?. I'm not through the entire thing yet but Horowitz does list 17 counts of abuse by the FBI in regard to the FISC.

Also there's some tidbits in the report that Fusion Co-Founders Glenn Simpson, Jonathon Winer refused to talk to the IG.
James Comey and Former FBI Attorney James Baker and others refused to fully testify to the IG. They were asked to recertify their classification clearance in order to testify and they refused. A person willing to co-operate would have recertified so Horowitz would have the authority to proceed to refresh their memories with newly discovered documents. But lets be honest here the reason they refused is they know they are guilty.

What Horowitz could not accomplish John Durham can. Not Comey, Baker, Simpson, McCabe, Strzok, Page, and all the other characters involved will be able to avoid a subpoena from John Durham.
 
Lutherf said:


He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
Click to expand...


Maybe he could investigate Hillary again also?
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
...keep reading.

They outline all of those "mistakes".
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And?

Errors, omissions, and failures that "prevented OI from fully performing its gatekeeper function and deprived the decision makers the opportunity to make fully informed decisions."
 
trouble13 said:
Agreed
Graham constintantly talks out of both sides of his mouth and tries to straddle the fence. He needs to put his money where his mouth is or STFU.
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To be clear, it won't be his money, it will be yours and mine.
 
Lutherf said:


He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
Click to expand...


Sadly, for him, no one considers him to be a rational voice, hence his opinion is best ignired.
 
Lutherf said:
He suggests that there needs to be a criminal investigation into continuing the investigation and suggests that the FISA court was outright lied to.
Click to expand...

If what Graham is saying is true, I am shocked. I had thought at worse, the FBI may have omitted a few things in the FISA warrant, but if Graham's statements are accurate, we are talking about full scale lying to the court. I never considered that anyone at the FBI would go that far and if they did, it's tough to imagine that bias didn't play some part in it.

We'll just have to wait until Horowitz testifies to find out if Graham's statements were accurate... but if they are, then there are people from the FBI headed to prison.
 
Lisa said:
Somehow and in some bizarre way, they will claim a partisan victory from that position.
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It's like watching a propaganda primer in real time.

And we ask ourselves how the Germans fell for it?
 
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