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Liberals, Conservatives Say The "Libertarian Moment" Is Far From Happening

TeleKat

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UPDATED 8/11!: Liberals, Conservatives Say The "Libertarian Moment" Is So Far From Happening That It's Not Even Funny, Man. - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Hmmm, thoughts?
 
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Thoughts? Let's hope they're wrong.
 
No one can predict the future but the fact that liberals like Krugman are speaking out against libertarians means they are awfully worried that it might happen. And thats a good thing.
 

I think the Libertarian Party, and libertarians aren't getting anywhere in this country without a party, was looking promising right up until the Tea Party movement, and the subsequent extreme right wing and willfully ignorant have tried to claim "libertarianism" and ruined it for real libertarians by bringing in racism, sexism, homophobia, and similar that are entirely contrary to what libertarianism was before the Tea Party screwed up Libertarianism.
 
Fringe nutters like Ron Paul are holding the movement back.




The Tea Party was libertarian for perhaps a minute or two. It should have supported the Fair Tax.
 
Hmmm, thoughts?

I would say extreme libertarianism (right wing anarchy imho) is far from happening. As for moderate libertarianism, it seems to be on the rise.

Though I am not a libertarian, the number of democratic politicians directly advocating entitlement programs as a means to solve social problems is declining. Likewise the number of Republican politicians directly advocating that laws be enacted in accordance with Judeao Christian theology is declining as well.

The only Republican hold out position seems to be abortion. And if one concludes that the fetus is a person and not a "parasite", then it is entirely permissable to be pro life and be a secular libertarian.
 
Fringe nutters like Ron Paul are holding the movement back.





The Tea Party was libertarian for perhaps a minute or two. It should have supported the Fair Tax.

I think Rand Paul is a bigger threat than his father, though I suppose he's still claiming Republican, isn't he?
 

Hey Summer :2wave:

Bear in mind that the "Tea Party" is, in no way, affiliated with the Libertarian Party or libertarianism...nor have they claimed to be. The media pins the label on them, but popular Tea Partiers like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz have implicitly stated that they are not libertarians and do not wish to be associated with the term. They are "constitutional conservatives."
 

True, but many that one might normally call themselves TP, seem to instead choose "Libertarian" these days as it seems (and is) more rational. Just look at some of the "libertarians" on DP,... they sure post like TPers. I didn't know Rand Paul had disavowed his father's party. Interesting.

And I'm glad you put "constitutional conservatives" in quotes, because it seems that they haven't a clue how the government works much less the constitution.
 
I think Rand Paul is a bigger threat than his father, though I suppose he's still claiming Republican, isn't he?

If he's the front-runner for libertarians, the movement is just as dead as it always has been.
 
Fringe nutters like Ron Paul are holding the movement back.

That is completely retarded. Ron Paul has probably brought in more people to the libertarian movement than anyone else in recent history. I know someone will mention he isn't a libertarian, but that doesn't really matter to my point. He introduced the idea to many people that went forth and explored the ideas of libertarianism.
 
If he's the front-runner for libertarians, the movement is just as dead as it always has been.

Telekat has corrected me, apparently Rand has disavowed libertarianism and claims Teapartyism, I haven't confirmed this on my own, but Telekat seems to date to one that is trustworthy about what she types even if I sometimes disagree with her perspective.
 
I don't appreciate pejoratives against disabled people. Good day.

You do realize words have more than one definition, right? Why not go back and review the context that the word was used in and perhaps you can discover it's meaning.
 

He's a clown, just like his father.
 
Personally I don't think the Libertarian movement will ever overtake conservatism or liberalism in my life, it can try and be associated with one.

That being said, I do like some of the ideas that Libertarians present, and the idea that a party made to try and look out for your own liberty is nice.

Things I can agree with:

#1 A more laissez-faire oriented economy

#2 More property rights

Don't agree with:

#1 Maximizing autonomy

#2 The disorganization of the party, from anarchists (ew god no) to libertarian socialists (eh) there are just way too many different ideologies within the broad spectrum of "Libertarian"

#3 Skepticism of authority and the (some libertarians I've seen) push to minimize the state to the point where we might as well not even have one (anarchism is the extreme, but most libertarians I've known want to really minimize the state).

Anyways, like I said before, without hitching a ride on the back of the Republicans or Democrats I don't think the Libertarian party will go anywhere. What it can strive for maybe in the future is splitting the presidential election into thirds, the party doesn't have to overtake the R or D they just have to at least be equal with them. If that happens the possibility of a Libertarian president is certainly existent.
 
You do realize words have more than one definition, right? Why not go back and review the context that the word was used in and perhaps you can discover it's meaning.

You used the word retard as a pejorative. There's no debate. I said good day.
 
He's a clown, just like his father.

On that, you and I agree. It would be nice if more libertarians were like Telekat and had a clue what it really means to be libertarian. The influx of religious arguments into libertarianism (ie anti-choice in all manner of social issues... abortion, SSM, and such) has entirely ruined it, imo.
 
You used the word retard as a pejorative. There's no debate. I said good day.

No, I used the word to mean stupid or idiotic.
 
True, but many that one might normally call themselves TP, seem to instead choose "Libertarian" these days as it seems (and is) more rational.

Unfortunately, very true.

Just look at some of the "libertarians" on DP,... they sure post like TPers.

Oh my, oh my. I know. I get a twitch whenever I see a "libertarian" like Empirica or LowDown post something. Or, the worst of the worst, Mosby.

I didn't know Rand Paul had disavowed his father's party.

It's a sticky situation. Rand is a slimeball politician. He has disavowed libertarianism entirely (up to and including insulting us by claiming we just want to run around naked smoking pot), but he still thinks he can dictate how libertarians should vote (see statements on 2013 VA Gubernatorial). He's a waffler.
 

I wonder what people will insult libertarians with when pot is legal. That they want to do what is perfectly legal to do?
 
You do realize words have more than one definition, right? .

Just stop. We all know what you meant. Honestly, no one is being fooled here.
 
I wonder what people will insult libertarians with when pot is legal. That they want to do what is perfectly legal to do?

Sad thing is: most of 'em probably do it in secret anyway. :shrug:
 

I self-label as 'independent' because I disagree (mildly) with libertarians on two issues and (severely) a political realm (realms being social, economic and foreign policy). One social issue: pro-life (mild, no ban, just move the deadline back a couple/few weeks - I'm not an incrementalist). One economic issue: green (market based only, not command and control). On foreign policy I'm a hawk; I don't understand respecting the sovereignty of a dictator over the sovereignty of the people.

I'm a pro-life (mild), green (market based), hawk libertarian. Obviously, I cannot self-label libertarian without qualifications because each of those issues and an entire realm of politics get me thrown out of the club.

I also disagree with something that some libertarians consider part of the platform. I do not agree with removing programs and laws against racism. As I believe systemic racism still exists in the US, thus removing affirmative action and laws against unjust economic discrimination is racist.
 
Just stop. We all know what you meant. Honestly, no one is being fooled here.

Political correctness has infected your brain.
 
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