Stinger said:My bet from the lack of evidence is that his lawyers are correct. What do you think?
Stinger said:Nor will Libby take the stand. That's a sign they are confident of an acquittal.
while he may have misled people in the investigation
there was no underlying crime
this was nothing more than payback for Clintons impeachment
next up at bat could be Bush if some on the left have their way
Indeed this trial is stupid. However it's not more so than the clinton blowjob case. Why? Because this trial did not start with "did you have an affair with this woman" exhibit A blue dress with stain.I agree entirely. Clinton's impeachment was stupid, and this trial is even more stupid than Clinton's.
Prosecutor: Did you fart at 10 AM This Morning?
You: No! (you really did)
Prosecutor: I have evidence that you did, Your lying! Perjury!!!!! Throw this man in jail!!!!!
Was Clinton guilty of perjury for the purpose of obstruction of justice?
Unless you're sitting in the courtroom, you don't know what evidence was presented to the jury.
I read the paper everyday where they give the highlights and listen to the reporters who were there discuss in great detail the days testimony.So how can you possibly claim to have an informed opinion about this case?
Where in the world did you pull this bizarre interpretation of the facts from? Usually when a defendant doesn't take the stand,
it's because he would be perjuring himself if he did.
The "they" I was talking about is the defense team. They are confident they will when and did not have to call Cheney nor put Libby on the stand to defend himself.But jurors aren't supposed to read anything into this decision, and rightly so.
Indeed this trial is stupid. However it's not more so than the clinton blowjob case. Why? Because this trial did not start with "did you have an affair with this woman" exhibit A blue dress with stain.
This trial started with the leak of an undercover CIA agent.
One being a family domestic issue, the other related to national security - not quite the same.
Really? There was secret evidence that the reporters in the courtroom didn't hear?
I read the paper everyday where they give the highlights and listen to the reporters who were there discuss in great detail the days testimony.
So you think there is some diffinitive piece of testimony that was given that slam dunks his guilt or innocence and not one of the many reporters hanging on to every word didn't report it?
Stinger said:The decision could be viewed as a sign that Mr. Libby’s lawyers are confident the prosecution has failed to make its case.
Stinger said:And you aren't charged with perjury for your testimony on the stand in your own defense. Doesn't happen. If I say I didn't kill someone and I'm found guilty, I don't get charged with perjury.
Stinger said:The "they" I was talking about is the defense team. They are confident they will when and did not have to call Cheney nor put Libby on the stand to defend himself.
SO how is that any different from Scooter's trial then? Same thing "knowingly willfully entering into court a lie". The funny thing is how you make this seem like nothing serious, where as making Clinton's blowjob trial into serious business.According to Judge Wright he was guilty of willfully lying for the purpose of obstruction of justice, which is criminal perjury. He knowingly and willfully entered into court a false affidavit and lied when he said he never had sexual relations with Lewinsky.
So why do you ask? This has all been explained to you in detail before. Are you trying to shift the subject?
There you go again, spinning. What assault? Clinton assaulted Lewinsky? Oh yes, because it takes so much to force someone to take your dick into their mouth willingly. Please, get over it.Clinton's started with his sexual assault of a subordinate employee. Taking bosses to court for that is "stupid"?
Of course not, leaking the identity of an undercover agent is not against the law by any means.:roll: Good job with derailing your own thread.And the Plame case had nothing to do with national security, why do you make that claim? Well I take that back it did have something to do with national security. Joe Wilson lied to the public about his trip to Niger and what he discovered in an attempt to undermine our national security. The White House properly debunked his claims.
It's my understanding that reporters don't have total access to everything happening in the courtroom. Am I wrong?
It could be. It could also be viewed as a sign that they are confident of a presidential pardon,
or it could be viewed as a sign that Cheney made some kind of deal with Libby so that Cheney wouldn't have to testify,
or it could be viewed as a sign that the defense thought that Libby/Cheney's testimony would HURT Libby's case.
You CAN be charged with perjury, and you're walking on a legal minefield...especially if you're found not guilty of the original crime. That's why guilty defendants usually DON'T take the stand, and it's why we have a Fifth Amendment.
I don't presume to judge the man's guilt or innocence,
but the online markets like InTrade.com are offering 2-1 odds that he WILL be found guilty of at least one of the charges against him.
SO how is that any different from Scooter's trial then? Same thing "knowingly willfully entering into court a lie".
The funny thing is how you make this seem like nothing serious, where as making Clinton's blowjob trial into serious business
There you go again, spinning. What assault? Clinton assaulted Lewinsky? Oh yes, because it takes so much to force someone to take your dick into their mouth willingly. Please, get over it.
Of course not, leaking the identity of an undercover agent is not against the law by any means.:roll: Good job with derailing your own thread.
I think that if his lawyers told him that is what they were banking on he would fire them.
Stinger said:What does Cheney have to hide?
Stinger said:How? They did nothing wrong.
Stinger said:You are on such a stretch here, no people who say they are not guilty, go to trial and are then found guilty are NOT charged with perjury.
Stinger said:Then why are you here?
Stinger said:OH that's convincing. About like when David Schuster said that Rove would be indicted because he was Mr. A in Fitzgerald's indictment of Libby. What is the evidence they say supports a guilty vedict, what was the lie the Libby willfully and knowingly told to obstruct justice.
When it was originally consentual.... Yes, I would say that it is extremely stupid..... :roll:Clinton's started with his sexual assault of a subordinate employee. Taking bosses to court for that is "stupid"?
Agreed. Whoopidee Doo. she worked for the CIA. I have a relative who works for the CIA... If I reveal thier name will I be tried for "outing an undercover agent" even though they don't do any undercover agent covert special black ops hooah hooah ranger ranger work?And the Plame case had nothing to do with national security
Not if he thinks he'll be pardoned too.
I have no idea.
You don't know that, and that's a circular argument if I've ever heard one.
But if you're found NOT guilty, and the prosecutor knows you're guilty and doesn't want to let you off scot-free, he may charge you with perjury.
Because I feel like it; deal with it. Only a fool would presume to know his guilt or innocence.
Unless you've been in the courtroom every day or you've followed every single word of this trial, your opinion is entirely baseless.
I'm just saying that as far as the LIKELIHOOD of him being convicted, it's about 2-1 in favor.
The news futures markets are a fairly accurate predictor of future news events. 66% certainty isn't 100% certainty though, so it could go either way.
When it was originally consentual.... Yes, I would say that it is extremely stupid..... :roll:
Agreed. Whoopidee Doo. she worked for the CIA.
I have a relative who works for the CIA...
You're putting the cart way before the horse, and doesn't appear he needs a pardon. I'll go with the NYT on this, he didn't need to testify to rebut anything.
Stinger said:IOW you know of nothing he has to hide, there has been no evidence presented of anything he has to hide. There was no crime.
Stinger said:Then you have never heard one, that is not a circular argument by any stretch. I know there has been no evidence present they did anything wrong, are yo willing to put people in jail based on your suppositions? Tell me what they did wrong, the burden is on you and Fitzgerald to state exactly what they did wrong and what evidence supports it. Let's hear it, I've been asking for months.
Stinger said:That's absurd. It doesn't happen.
Stinger said:So the jury is full of fools? The evidence and testimony is not secret, only a fool would think it is. If you haven't bother to follow the trial and the testimony then cease trying to tell other people what they should think about it, your ignorance of the issue precludes you such pleasure.
Stinger said:Your assertion is baseless and a desperate attempt to silence any discussion, you must be afraid he will walk.
Stinger said:According to some gabling cite, you take that over the evidence?
Stinger said:According to you NO ONE can POSSIBLE know, but we are suppose to take this gambling cite as authoritative.
Stinger said:Your desperation is getting to your logic. I'll take my own knowledge of the testimony.
Stinger said:Why? Why evidence points to Libby willfully and knowingly lie for the purpose of obstruction of justice and be specific.
So... you were there in the White House when President Clinton demanded that she get on her knees? Tell me Mr. Fly on The Wall.... did he FORCE her? I mean, you were obviously there watching the whole thing, and you are certain that it wasn't a consensual sexual relationship......It wasn't, it was a sexual assault of a subordinate employee while she was at work. Is holding a boss accountable for sexually assualting subordinates and using his power as the superior to threaten the subordinate he she tells anyone stupid?
Ahh if case you didn't know it's a BIG difference, and she wasn't protected under the covert agent statute. NO ONE was charged with a crime with respect to utter the name Plame, it's a moot point.
I could care less, no crime was charged, it is a moot point.
So... you were there in the White House when President Clinton demanded that she get on her knees? Tell me Mr. Fly on The Wall.... did he FORCE her?
Just to be clear, you are telling me that she did NOT want to have sex with the President and made certain he knew this...
It's simply one of many reasons he might choose not to testify or call Cheney to testify.
Pretty much it appease to be the caes and not one person since he was indicted has been able to state clearly what the obstruction of justice was and what they were trying to cover up.The case didn't find its way into the courtroom for no reason at all.
You know what the evidence is, I have no doubt that if it was clear he knowingly and willfully lied to obstruct justice you would have no problem stating so. Remember the evidence was be beyond a doubt. What is it.I do not know whether he's guilty or not,
No it isn't, the reporting and analysis has been quite intensive.but I do know that unless you have been following the case for hours upon hours every single day as the jury has, your opinion is uninformed.
Then you shouldn't be here trying to discuss or voting in the poll. Lot's of the rest of us do.Personally I avoid news coverage of courtroom dramas like the plague, but that's just me.
I didn't say he was guilty.
For lying before a federal grand jury and investigators NOT in the criminal trial. It doesn't happen.How do you think Libby got himself into trouble in the first place?
Not all of them. Have you ever sat on a jury. A lot of the time is spent in the back room while attorney's argue points, But ALL the testimony upon which they will base their decision is PUBLIC. It is heard IN THE COURTROOM. And there are plenty of news reports on the key points being made.How many hours a day does the jury spend hearing about this case?
We know what the evidence, or rather lack of it is.There's nothing to discuss. I see no point in uninformed people getting into a ******* contest saying "He did it" and "Nuh-uh." You haven't the faintest idea whether he did it.
Well what are they basing that on? You claim on the one hand it is impossible to do so unless you sat on the jury, specious but that is your claim, then you turn around and cite some obscure website as being an accurate source. Which is it?News futures markets are accurate predictors because markets are efficient. It's trading at 66% which means it's more likely than not he'll be convicted.
Based on what?It's authoritative on predicting the likelihood that he'll be convicted:
Well heck what do we need trials for then? What do we need evidence for then? Why this is a solid as David Schuster's claim that he had convincing evidence Rove was going to be indicted and would be sitting in jail.It says nothing about what evidence was presented or whether he actually committed a crime or anything else.
Quoting gambling sites as authoritative.................................Desperation? I don't have any emotional attachment to this case either way;
Most of us hadn't and most of us will.I'd never heard of the guy prior to this scandal, and I'll forget about him in a couple years.
Using the courts to put your political opponents in jail and out of the way doesn't reek of good governance, does it. But then I have based my opinion on the facts and evidence present rather than desperate measures such as the MSM claiming that since Rove was Mr. "A" he was guilty and some obscure gambling site.You, on the other hand, seem to have quite an emotional stake in the outcome of this trial for some reason.
Hmmmm maybe I believe that the courts are not for removing political opponents. But let's be clear, you are free to go back to the previous threads concerning this issue. I have been perfectly clear, that if any evidence was presented that Libby willfully and knowingly lied for the purpose of obstructing justice, too bad for him he would have consequences to face. The evidence is now in, there was no underlying crime, there is no evidence he committed perjury. If there is then state specifically what it was. I could care less about Libby, I do care when such sham trials are engaged in for political retribution.What are you saying about your political beliefs if you need a "not guilty" verdict to validate them?
I didn't say you did, you said a gambling site did and I asked again for the umpteenth time, what is the evidence he lied for the purpose of obstructing justice.I didn't say he was guilty. Learn to read.
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