Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED [W:75]

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Do those w/ these strong "religious" feelings which leads them to discriminate also have strong feelings against other "sinners" which actually make God's top ten list..(see below)

Or how many of them are divorced/married to someone that is?? My guess is aHellaVa of them..:lol:

“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Goshin · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

As I've said before, many times, there are two main reasons for this PERCEPTION that Christianity is all about bashing the Gays...

1. Media hype. Anything controversial, any controversial statement made by any religious figure, is proclaimed loudly and long in the national-level media. Preaching or speaking against adultery, divorce, lying, cheating or stealing is not controversial enough to merit media attention... anything about homosexuality IS, because it has been top-of-the-news for some time leading up to the SSM decision. Controversy spurs readership/viewership and therefore spurs advertising sales.

2. The Opposition: There is no coordinated and organized group protesting in favor of social acceptance for adultery, theft, lying, cheating, etc. There is for homosexual issues. This produces a clash which increases the controversy value of the story, leading to more media hype.

The TRUTH....

The truth is the average Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist church doesn't actually focus on homosexuality to the degree the media hype makes it sound. In fact there are very few churches, nuts like Westboro aside, for whom it is a major issue at all.

In some 50 years of attending many different churches in the Southeast (the Bible Belt), I would have to say that I have rarely heard a sermon about homosexuality. I have heard it mentioned in sermons from time to time, but rather rarely was it the subject of an entire sermon. Far more commonly, sermons addressed issues more common to the congregation and community, like the life and teachings of Jesus, the nature and need for salvation, the importance of marriage and family, on love and compassion, charity, forgiveness, faithfulness, sobriety, moderation, and against adultery, premarital sex and teenage pregnancy, lying, gossiping, dishonest business dealings, and so on.

Contrary to the media frenzy, the average church does not spend all its time in a dizzy frenzy over What Are Dem Gayz Up To. Far from it.

Frankly I think I've probably heard about as many sermons on Gluttony (an unpopular topic lol) as sermons on homosexuality.

So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.

joG · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Goshin said:
As I've said before, many times, there are two main reasons for this PERCEPTION that Christianity is all about bashing the Gays...

1. Media hype. Anything controversial, any controversial statement made by any religious figure, is proclaimed loudly and long in the national-level media. Preaching or speaking against adultery, divorce, lying, cheating or stealing is not controversial enough to merit media attention... anything about homosexuality IS, because it has been top-of-the-news for some time leading up to the SSM decision. Controversy spurs readership/viewership and therefore spurs advertising sales.

2. The Opposition: There is no coordinated and organized group protesting in favor of social acceptance for adultery, theft, lying, cheating, etc. There is for homosexual issues. This produces a clash which increases the controversy value of the story, leading to more media hype.

The TRUTH....

The truth is the average Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist church doesn't actually focus on homosexuality to the degree the media hype makes it sound. In fact there are very few churches, nuts like Westboro aside, for whom it is a major issue at all.

In some 50 years of attending many different churches in the Southeast (the Bible Belt), I would have to say that I have rarely heard a sermon about homosexuality. I have heard it mentioned in sermons from time to time, but rather rarely was it the subject of an entire sermon. Far more commonly, sermons addressed issues more common to the congregation and community, like the life and teachings of Jesus, the nature and need for salvation, the importance of marriage and family, on love and compassion, charity, forgiveness, faithfulness, sobriety, moderation, and against adultery, premarital sex and teenage pregnancy, lying, gossiping, dishonest business dealings, and so on.

Contrary to the media frenzy, the average church does not spend all its time in a dizzy frenzy over What Are Dem Gayz Up To. Far from it.

Frankly I think I've probably heard about as many sermons on Gluttony (an unpopular topic lol) as sermons on homosexuality.

So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.

What is a little sad is, what is says about the intellectual capacity of the American people on average.

Unicron · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

joG said:
What is a little sad is, what is says about the intellectual capacity of the American people on average.

It's astounding just how ingenious most people are. Especially with the internet. I can see that before the internet, things would have been a lot harder to see, but now, no.

soot · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Goshin said:
So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.

I have never attended a fundamentalist church in the Southeast so I'm not discounting or arguing against anything you've said.

But from my perspective it is really more than just a simple matter of media hype.

Where I get the impression that Christians feel differently about homosexuality than virtually any other "sin" is what I hear from Christians on a more-or-less daily basis; either here at USPOL and other online discussion forums, on Facebook and other social media platforms, and through interactions with Christians "out in the world".

I never hear Christians discuss sins other than homosexuality, with the exception of abortion, with the same degree of vitriol, spite, and anger.

In my opinion, experience, and perception, it goes beyond simply "hating the sin" to a real bigotry and probably even hate in some (many?) cases for the sinner.

joG · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Unicron said:
It's astounding just how ingenious most people are. Especially with the internet. I can see that before the internet, things would have been a lot harder to see, but now, no.

The internet does make it harder to contain information.

Goshin · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

soot said:
I have never attended a fundamentalist church in the Southeast so I'm not discounting or arguing against anything you've said.

But from my perspective it is really more than just a simple matter of media hype.

Where I get the impression that Christians feel differently about homosexuality than virtually any other "sin" is what I hear from Christians on a more-or-less daily basis; either here at USPOL and other online discussion forums, on Facebook and other social media platforms, and through interactions with Christians "out in the world".

I never hear Christians discuss sins other than homosexuality, with the exception of abortion, with the same degree of vitriol, spite, and anger.

In my opinion, experience, and perception, it goes beyond simply "hating the sin" to a real bigotry and probably even hate in some (many?) cases for the sinner.

There is a certain concern about "the gay agenda", and some are worried about issues like forced participation (re the whole cake-baker, photographer, banner-maker, chapel thing), and this causes some to be rather vehement about the issue. Also given the push-back from the opposition is far from civil as well, the matter gets heated quickly in many cases, with much incivility on both sides.

Then there are people, both religious and non-religious, who just don't like gayness on a visceral level and it comes out in their manner.

Add into that the media hype issue again... who gets airtime? The fellow who gives a moderate and reasoned response, or the fellow who goes off on a hysterical hateful-sounding rant? Give you three guesses.

Riveroaks · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Anytime I see these popular English translations I shudder -- especially when the mistakes in the words are so obvious.

So I cannot resist re-translating them myself:

1 - you shall make no other gods before my face

2 - you shall not serve as gods any carvings of any thing

3 - you shall not take the name YHVY ELHM in futility

4 - keep the seventh day holy as you were instructed

5 - glorify your father and your mother as you have been instructed

6 - you shall not murder

7 - you shall not share your wives

8 - and you shall not steal

9 - and you shall not testify in futility

10 - and you shall not covet that which is your neighbor's.

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Goshin said:
As I've said before, many times, there are two main reasons for this PERCEPTION that Christianity is all about bashing the Gays...

1. Media hype. Anything controversial, any controversial statement made by any religious figure, is proclaimed loudly and long in the national-level media. Preaching or speaking against adultery, divorce, lying, cheating or stealing is not controversial enough to merit media attention... anything about homosexuality IS, because it has been top-of-the-news for some time leading up to the SSM decision. Controversy spurs readership/viewership and therefore spurs advertising sales.

2. The Opposition: There is no coordinated and organized group protesting in favor of social acceptance for adultery, theft, lying, cheating, etc. There is for homosexual issues. This produces a clash which increases the controversy value of the story, leading to more media hype.

The TRUTH....

The truth is the average Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist church doesn't actually focus on homosexuality to the degree the media hype makes it sound. In fact there are very few churches, nuts like Westboro aside, for whom it is a major issue at all.

In some 50 years of attending many different churches in the Southeast (the Bible Belt), I would have to say that I have rarely heard a sermon about homosexuality. I have heard it mentioned in sermons from time to time, but rather rarely was it the subject of an entire sermon. Far more commonly, sermons addressed issues more common to the congregation and community, like the life and teachings of Jesus, the nature and need for salvation, the importance of marriage and family, on love and compassion, charity, forgiveness, faithfulness, sobriety, moderation, and against adultery, premarital sex and teenage pregnancy, lying, gossiping, dishonest business dealings, and so on.

Contrary to the media frenzy, the average church does not spend all its time in a dizzy frenzy over What Are Dem Gayz Up To. Far from it.

Frankly I think I've probably heard about as many sermons on Gluttony (an unpopular topic lol) as sermons on homosexuality.

So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.

Well I believe it is all that, but more......

Like the organizations & their barking dogs in DC passing & threatening to pass legislation against gay marriage, allowing discrimination against gays etc....

nota bene · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

I don't think Americans lack intellectual capacity; I think they're intellectually lazy. And it's also true that we're all bombarded with information. I think Goshin is right that the media drives what people are talking about.

I can say, having attended church faithfully most of my life and having worshipped in many denoms' churches that I have never once heard homosexuality being harped on in a pulpit.

pinqy · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Goshin said:
As I've said before, many times, there are two main reasons for this PERCEPTION that Christianity is all about bashing the Gays...

1. Media hype. Anything controversial, any controversial statement made by any religious figure, is proclaimed loudly and long in the national-level media. Preaching or speaking against adultery, divorce, lying, cheating or stealing is not controversial enough to merit media attention... anything about homosexuality IS, because it has been top-of-the-news for some time leading up to the SSM decision. Controversy spurs readership/viewership and therefore spurs advertising sales.

2. The Opposition: There is no coordinated and organized group protesting in favor of social acceptance for adultery, theft, lying, cheating, etc. There is for homosexual issues. This produces a clash which increases the controversy value of the story, leading to more media hype.

The TRUTH....

The truth is the average Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist church doesn't actually focus on homosexuality to the degree the media hype makes it sound. In fact there are very few churches, nuts like Westboro aside, for whom it is a major issue at all.

In some 50 years of attending many different churches in the Southeast (the Bible Belt), I would have to say that I have rarely heard a sermon about homosexuality. I have heard it mentioned in sermons from time to time, but rather rarely was it the subject of an entire sermon. Far more commonly, sermons addressed issues more common to the congregation and community, like the life and teachings of Jesus, the nature and need for salvation, the importance of marriage and family, on love and compassion, charity, forgiveness, faithfulness, sobriety, moderation, and against adultery, premarital sex and teenage pregnancy, lying, gossiping, dishonest business dealings, and so on.

Contrary to the media frenzy, the average church does not spend all its time in a dizzy frenzy over What Are Dem Gayz Up To. Far from it.

Frankly I think I've probably heard about as many sermons on Gluttony (an unpopular topic lol) as sermons on homosexuality.

I agree with most of what you've said and my experiences are similar. HOWEVER.....while not a large majority, for those Christians that do adovcate discrimination against homosexuals or same sex marriage, that is the ONLY sin they want to take such actions against. Bakers seem perfectly willing to bake cakes for marriages Jesus considered adulterous or selling candy to gluttons.

So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.[/QUOTE]

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

nota bene said:
I don't think Americans lack intellectual capacity; I think they're intellectually lazy. And it's also true that we're all bombarded with information. I think Goshin is right that the media drives what people are talking about.

I can say, having attended church faithfully most of my life and having worshipped in many denoms' churches that I have never once heard homosexuality being harped on in a pulpit.

How many gays were in those churches to be preached to?? My guess none, @ least openly so.......

Because we have not seen it preached or preached very little mean it isn't happening?? lol A blind man can see it.......

You really see it in the gop & many of their candidates running for POTUS.........

IMHO you see happening now, exactly what Goldwater warned against..........

Logicman · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
Do those w/ these strong "religious" feelings which leads them to discriminate also have strong feelings against other "sinners" which actually make God's top ten list..(see below)

Or how many of them are divorced/married to someone that is?? My guess is aHellaVa of them..:lol:

“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Hey, people / Christians sin, repent, are forgiven in Christ, and for most of them they move on.

The real question is: Where's the repentance (Luke 13:3) and turning from their sin from the gay sex crowd?

And by the way, I doubt the fanfare about homosexual sin & gay marriage wouldn't even be seen to the extent it is except for the media hype and except for gays flaunting it and cramming it down everyone's throat. I don't see any 'Adultery Pride' parades, do you?

So nice try.

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

pinqy said:
I agree with most of what you've said and my experiences are similar. HOWEVER.....while not a large majority, for those Christians that do adovcate discrimination against homosexuals or same sex marriage, that is the ONLY sin they want to take such actions against. Bakers seem perfectly willing to bake cakes for marriages Jesus considered adulterous or selling candy to gluttons.

So it is really a matter of media hype feeding a perception that is far from the truth.

:applaud :applaud

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Logicman said:
Hey, people / Christians sin, repent, are forgiven in Christ, and for most of them they move on.

The real question is: Where's the repentance (Luke 13:3) and turning from their sin from the gay sex crowd?

And by the way, I doubt the fanfare about homosexual sin & gay marriage wouldn't even be seen to the extent it is except for the media hype and except for gays flaunting it and cramming it down everyone's throat. I don't see any 'Adultery Pride' parades, do you?

So nice try.

You of course see (wont go into why) what gays do as forcing it down your throat, but have you ever thought about what you do & what you may be forcing down someone elses..??

Since "Christians" are so laxed about adultery, fornication, etc~~~~THEY DON'T NEED A PARADE, they already got acceptance....SShhisshhh:3oops:

Logicman · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
You of course see (wont go into why) what gays do as forcing it down your throat, but have you ever thought about what you do & what you may be forcing down someone elses..??

God forbid righteous laws should be looked upon as some pernicious curse on mankind.

DCJ said:
Since "Christians" are so laxed about adultery, fornication, etc~~~~THEY DON'T NEED A PARADE, they already got acceptance....SShhisshhh:3oops:

So all Christians are adulterers and fornicators, etc.? By your logic all gays are murderers because some are.

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Logicman said:
God forbid righteous laws should be looked upon as some pernicious curse on mankind.

So all Christians are adulterers and fornicators, etc.? By your logic all gays are murderers because some are.

You run w/ that..........:roll::3oops:

Nursmate · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

I have been in Church most of my life, taught Sunday school and attended many different denominations and types. I have never heard homosexuality mentioned in a sermon. My Uncle in the South is a Baptist preacher and the family Doctor, who is gay eats at his table every Sunday after services. This Doctor is welcomed with open arms by the family and congregation.

faithful_servant · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Accepting one bad thing is not justification for accepting another. If we made murder legal, that would not be an argument to make rape legal as well. People work on what they can, as they can.

Riveroaks · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
Do those w/ these strong "religious" feelings which leads them to discriminate also have strong feelings against other "sinners" which actually make God's top ten list..

You are correct DCJ, there are a lot of hypocrites everywhere.

And as Jesus said, let him who has no sin cast the first stone ... .

But you know since we have the 1st and the 14th Amendments, religion does not matter.

Because of the 1st and the 14th Amendments religion is supposed to be personal and free and separated from the state.

So why are you kicking sand into the hypocrites faces then? Just looking for a fight?

nota bene · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
How many gays were in those churches to be preached to?? My guess none, @ least openly so.......

You would be very much mistaken. Do you think that gay people don't go to church?

DCJ · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

nota bene said:
You would be very much mistaken. Do you think that gay people don't go to church?

How many were/are in the congregation??

Goshin · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
Well I believe it is all that, but more......

Like the organizations & their barking dogs in DC passing & threatening to pass legislation against gay marriage, allowing discrimination against gays etc....

As to what goes on in DC, I know not. I have been there once, during a major protest-counter-protest march, and once was a-plenty.

I was addressing the assertion that churches and Christians, in general, are more welcoming/accepting of adulterers, liars, cheats and so forth, than of homosexuals. I have not found this to be the case.

Many churches I have attended will not allow a second marriage to take place inside the church, unless the remarriage is due to one being widowed, or one having divorced due to the other partner's sexual immorality (adultery, mainly).

I've seen members, and preachers, get the boot when they were found to be having an affair, if they declined to repent and discontinue the behavior.

Y-not · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

Logicman said:
Hey, people / Christians sin, repent, are forgiven in Christ, and for most of them they move on.

And therein lies the big problem. "I sinned. Jesus forgives me, so it's all OK. So leave me alone."

Great work if you can get it.

It isn't the media that gets all those GOP candidates telling us all the bad things happening are because of gay marriage and such. It isn't the media that makes the churches that preach that poison ludicrously rich.

And Mrs. RNG was "born again" about 12 years ago and has attended about 5 different fundamentalist churches since. And all of them actively preach against gay acts and try to play "hate the sin, love the sinner" but it doesn't fly.

Yes, some churches ignore it and some churches have gay ministers and perform gay marriages, but there is a large contingent of the fundamentalist type.

nota bene · Jul 21, 2015

Re: Liars, cheats, fornicators, adulters welcome-NO GAYS ALLOWED

DCJ said:
How many were/are in the congregation??

Just so you'll know, you can't always tell. Oh, and BTW, the older person in a couple may not be a sugar daddy or mama; it may be that gay person's parent. But I do generally sit in front of a gay lady.

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