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Let's Talk About the Self.

quip

quip

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I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as being random infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...

I...don't know. I'm just checking into this thread to see where the rabbit hole goes.
 
I don't understand your question. 'wherefore' has two definitions. Which case are you referring to?

adverb
adverb: wherefore
  1. for what reason.
    "she took an ill turn, but wherefore I cannot say"
adverb · conjunction
conjunction: wherefore
  1. as a result of which.
    "truly he cared for me, wherefore I title him with all respect"
 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?
Click to expand...
There is nothing inherently random in you being you here and now. Why not here and now? God created other people for those other times an places. He created you for here and now. God is nothing if not thorough. He wants all times and places to be covered.

Or maybe it's all just random. Maybe you just showed up at the wrong place and time.
 
There is no why to existence other than the net result of a few billion years of evolution creating sentient advanced organisms that are pre-wired to procreate, and you won the sperm lottery.
Now, in that you can certainly believe there was intelligent design by a God, for whatever reason (bored?) and set the stage for the above to happen.

Either way - you won the sperm lottery, enjoy the luck it was and gave you.
 
eman623 said:
There is nothing inherently random in you being you here and now. Why not here and now? God created other people for those other times an places. He created you for here and now. God is nothing if not thorough. He wants all times and places to be covered.

Or maybe it's all just random. Maybe you just showed up at the wrong place and time.
Click to expand...

Invoking "God" in a philosophical discussion is a hell of a shift. And a can of worms.
 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...
Self. No self. (Zen)
 
First interesting problem is understanding the size of your self…..is it limited to you or does include ancestors or influencers ?
 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...
I think of it this way: things have a way of coming together to create things greater than the sum of their parts. It doesn't mean the end result had some pre-existing "essence" that only now is becoming realized.

For example: a car is really just a bunch of metal, plastic, leather, rubber, etc... But put together, qualities emerge from it that do not exist in its components separately. That doesn't mean a car has any sort of "soul" or essence".

Similarly, a hurricane is just composed of air and water. And yet, when placed under certain contingent conditions, it develops certain properties and it does things that the individual components by themselves do not have. It doesn't mean there is some deep underlying essence of "hurricane" that is being realized.

Now the question you ask has very deep philosophical roots. It goes back to plato, and his idea of "essences", or ideal forms, which exist separate from and in a plane which transcends the physical world, and only manifests itself, even if imperfectly, in the physical forms. This eventually got transformed to the Christian concept of "soul". Later in the Renaissance and Enlightenment, as the world secularized more, this led to the concept of "humanism".

But nowadays, the concept of the self is moving away from even this concept of "humanism", to "post-humanism". If you are interested in all the philosophical history of all this, you might find these videos interesting (if you're going to listen to them, listen to them in the order below. It's hard to understand one without having listened to the prior ones):






 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...

Also, continuing from my last post, if you think this sort of "post-humanist" philosophical conception of the self is only useless abstract philosophizing, it's really not. Beliefs have consequences- including for ethics and society. Sometimes these consequences are mild, superficial, and obvious. And sometimes, they can be much more profound and even operate at the subconscious and visceral level.



 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...

I posit that to even ask your question, you must first satisfy yourself that any existence ever occurred except yours. IOW, is there any reality except yours?
 
verrip1 said:
I posit that to even ask your question, you must first satisfy yourself that any existence ever occurred except yours. IOW, is there any reality except yours?
Click to expand...

Solipsism, although an intellectually interesting and amusing idea, is, pragmatically speaking, a dead end.

Even if true, so what? Would you do anything differently?
 
quip said:
I've been pondering about my "self". Specifically, why do I exist, experiencing life through these senses of mine, at this particular time and place.
Why not some time in the future or past, why particularly here and now?

I've posed this on other forums in the past and was met with "There's no such thing as a soul." "It's just chance". Okay so, how does chance work existentially speaking?
For example: I asked you to give me a number at random say, from 1 to 1000 (we'll call that set 'X') and you tell me 452 (we'll call that 'Y')

My randomized 'self' being 'Y'....wherefore lies the corresponding 'X' to this 'Y'?

Isn't asserting the self as a product of randomness infer the existence of something prior to my existence?
Perhaps a soul/spirit?

Thoughts.
Click to expand...
The corresponding x here would be a number of factors. Which would include genetics, nature and nurture. No one is born in a completely random nature, ie; asians do not give birth to caucasians unless there is a genetic influence. Nature means you will be born as the same species as your parents humans do not give birth to lions . Nurture means that the person you grow up to become will be influenced by the background you grew up in.

The assertion of being a product of randomness only makes sense when the definition of random means that the things that influenced who you are was not due to some manifest destiny set by a god. It does not mean that pure chance was the only factor in who you are.
 
One of the big problems with any thread discussing free will: many accept that free will does not exist convinced by their own logic or ‘proof’ of others but, in my experience, I have asked them the biggest change they have experienced since their acceptance they no longer have free will……so far no responses. They accept the idea intellectually but have no experiential evidence to validate their belief.
 
Metanoia said:
One of the big problems with any thread discussing free will: many accept that free will does not exist convinced by their own logic or ‘proof’ of others but, in my experience, I have asked them the biggest change they have experienced since their acceptance they no longer have free will……so far no responses. They accept the idea intellectually but have no experiential evidence to validate their belief.
Click to expand...
What kind of "experiential evidence" would you accept?
 
dmpi said:
I don't understand your question. 'wherefore' has two definitions. Which case are you referring to?

adverb
adverb: wherefore
  1. for what reason.
    "she took an ill turn, but wherefore I cannot say"
adverb · conjunction
conjunction: wherefore
  1. as a result of which.
    "truly he cared for me, wherefore I title him with all respect"
Click to expand...
Yep, poor choice of word....think just 'where' and don't get caught up in the semantics.
 
eman623 said:
There is nothing inherently random in you being you here and now. Why not here and now? God created other people for those other times an places. He created you for here and now. God is nothing if not thorough. He wants all times and places to be covered.

Or maybe it's all just random. Maybe you just showed up at the wrong place and time.
Click to expand...
God is a plausible answer though IMO it creates more questions than it answers.
 
poppopfox said:
What kind of "experiential evidence" would you accept?
Click to expand...

No criteria involved……just simply a sharing of their experience….especially wondering if it seemed like an epiphany…
 
iamwhatiseem said:
There is no why to existence other than the net result of a few billion years of evolution creating sentient advanced organisms that are pre-wired to procreate, and you won the sperm lottery.
Now, in that you can certainly believe there was intelligent design by a God, for whatever reason (bored?) and set the stage for the above to happen.

Either way - you won the sperm lottery, enjoy the luck it was and gave you.
Click to expand...
How exactly does this "sperm lottery" operate?
 
Metanoia said:
First interesting problem is understanding the size of your self…..is it limited to you or does include ancestors or influencers ?
Click to expand...
Wha?
 
verrip1 said:
I posit that to even ask your question, you must first satisfy yourself that any existence ever occurred except yours. IOW, is there any reality except yours?
Click to expand...
I can't prove that you actually exist (you may be illusory), yet I take your existence as a given. You're free to ponder your own life and relative reality.
 
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