- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 30,791
- Reaction score
- 15,089
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
What is so encouraging about the figures for 2010? I found that within Israel, Jews constitute 75.5 percent of the population, but that the proportion in 1998 was 79.2 percent, and 81.7 percent in 1988. In other words, the percentage of Jews in the Israeli population is constantly declining, in spite of the influx of about 1 million immigrants over the past two decades. \
According to the forecasts, in 2015 the percentage of Jews will decline to 73.5 percent, and will drop to 70.6 percent by 2025. Only in 2030 will there be, for the first time, a miniscule increase in the proportion of Jews, bringing us to 72 percent. What is there here to make Arens happy?
snip
But I don't rely on American teams, and instead turn to the head of the Civil Administration in the Israel Defense Forces, who reports to me that there are presently about 2.6 million Palestinians living in Judea and Samaria, and in Gaza their number is estimated at 1.5 million. Anyone who doesn't rely on the IDF can access the figures of the Palestinian statistics bureau, whose last census was held in 2007, under the aegis of representatives of the Norwegian government; their numbers are similar to those of the IDF (after subtracting the residents of Jerusalem who were already counted by the Israeli statistics bureau ). In both cases it turns out that, not counting Gaza or foreign residents, Jews constitute 59 percent of the total population in the Land of Israel. If you do count Gaza and foreign residents, there are somewhat fewer Jews than there are Palestinian Arabs
snip
There is no choice but to tell Arens that the right-wing Betar ideology on which he was raised went bankrupt a long time ago and it won't help if he virtually erases 1.5 million Arabs from the territories. They are here. The conclusion is frighteningly simple: Whoever brings about the establishment of a single binational state in the Land of Israel will doom the Jews of Israel to destruction. We, the sane majority who still live here, will not allow anyone to do that
Jewish population in Israel is declining - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Ignore the somewhat sensationalist title, as it is somewhat misleading in nature. What is occuring is the % of the Population of Jews in Israel, (proper and occupied territories is declining.
The demographic issue was I believe the reason Sharon decided to pull out of Gaza.
Jewish population in Israel is declining - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Ignore the somewhat sensationalist title, as it is somewhat misleading in nature. What is occuring is the % of the Population of Jews in Israel, (proper and occupied territories is declining.
The demographic issue was I believe the reason Sharon decided to pull out of Gaza.
Correction on the article. There aren't 2.6 million Palestinians living in Judea and Samaria. There might be 2.6 million living in the West bank though.
Jewish population in Israel is declining - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Ignore the somewhat sensationalist title, as it is somewhat misleading in nature. What is occuring is the % of the Population of Jews in Israel, (proper and occupied territories is declining.
The demographic issue was I believe the reason Sharon decided to pull out of Gaza.
This just means that arabs prefer to live in Israel than in arab countries...
That said they do encounter political discrimination at the municipal level for funding of neighbourhoods and on a grass roots level the inability to differentiate between anti Israeli Palestinians and Israeli Arabs often means they are the brunt of tension and hatred when a terrorist attack happens and its pretty much difficult to get a good job in Israel no matter who you are if you do not serve in the IDF and get security clearance which can effect Israeli Arabs, but yes for the most part they prefer Israel.
to what extent are municipal funding differences a product of taxation revenues collected by those municipalities? My understanding is that unicipal services are worse in predominantly Arab towns because municipal tax revenues are significantly lower per capita.
That's not political discrimination, it's complaining about not receiving a large enough subsidy. Much like the ultra orthodox, so nothing unique about that, but symantics are important in all this.
to what extent are municipal funding differences a product of taxation revenues collected by those municipalities? My understanding is that unicipal services are worse in predominantly Arab towns because municipal tax revenues are significantly lower per capita.
That's not political discrimination, it's complaining about not receiving a large enough subsidy. Much like the ultra orthodox, so nothing unique about that, but symantics are important in all this.
You raise a valid point I acknowledge and I found this reference for:
(source: The Bottom Line / Arab municipalities do not believe in equality in debts - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News)
" Municipal funding: A major factor in the situation of some of the Arab towns can be traced to statistical figures showing that Arab towns in Israel are reluctant to collect city taxes from their residents. "The Arab authorities demand equal rights, but they forget that first of all they have to fulfil the same duties that the Jewish authorities do, first and foremost, to collect tax from the residents," complain Jerusalem circles. Without tax collection, the Arab towns are in a state of perpetual crisis, and all plans and programs to better their lot go nowhere. They can't pay their workers and the distance from there to a nationwide strike is short indeed."
However, I ask you to consider this paper from the Bank of Israel directly on this topic at;
http://www.bankisrael.gov.il/deptdata/mehkar/papers/dp0501e.pdf
and in particular these comments on page 11:
"Other studies directly examined differences in the allocation of public resources between
Jewish and Arab localities. Zeira and Strawczynsky (2002) demonstrate the bias against the
Arab sector by comparing public expenditure per student in the Arab sector with that in the
Jewish sector – controlling for other factors that could influence this expenditure. Justman
and Spivak (2001) find that the general grants transferred to Arab local authorities were
substantially lower than those allocated to Jewish ones and Lavi (1999) identifies
discrimination in the disbursement of education funding – although the latter two studies
suggest that the magnitude of discrimination has decreased in recent years. Razin (1999)
finds that government funding of Arab local authorities is markedly lower than that of
Jewish localities, and Shachor (2003) – controlling for population size, socio-economic
status and location – finds significantly lower transfers to the Arab localities than to Jewish
and Druz ones, although he also shows that the gap narrowed between 1994 and 2000.6 "
and these comments on page 12:
"If minority localities are characterized by a high proportion of
people in need of local welfare services, it may lead to a lower inclination to carry the
burden of these services, despite the ethnic homogeneity of the locality. As Lassen (2003)
argues, the success in tax collection depends to a large degree on the perceived yield on
taxes to the payee. If, due to the above factors, taxpayers feel that they do not receive the
desired services in return for their taxes, and in an efficient manner, their incentive to pay
these taxes will decline (Slemord, 2001)."
Now herein lies the problem as stated on page 13:
"National laws and regulations determine substantial discounts for various population groups, such as
handicapped people, recipients of income support, elderly individuals, and families with a
large number of children."
The above is very much a political process.
If as is the present case Arab Israelis are not getting the same national funding, they have less incentive to pay taxes. That is further fueled by other factors that add to their malaise and feeling of being second class and having no incentive to pay taxes such as the pragmatic reality of not being able to get security clearance for better paying jobs unless they volunteer for the IDF which most will not.
That security issue which prevades all economic activities in Israel and acts as a pragmatic barrier to work, fuels the lack of paying taxes.
So its a complex issue and its far more complex as the Bank of Israel explains then low tax collection rates and why on page 19 the Bank of Israel's analysis states:
"...discrimination creates a sense of mistrust in other
people, reduces self-efficacy and hurts the minority's members' motivation to improve their
situation. As a result, the quality of management in localities dominated by an ethnic
minority could be harmed, which in turn would harm the efficiency of tax collection and
reduce the willingness of the residents to pay local taxes."...
and on page 20...
"One of the key links between perceived discrimination and tax obedience is trust, as
highlighted, for example, by Scholz.19 Against this background, it is important to examine
whether the disadvantaged economic and social position of Arabs in Israel is accompanied
by lower degree of trust in people than is the case among the Jewish public."
It certainly is a complex issue.
All valid, and indeed it is complex. One additional factor to keep in mind though is the practice of "matching" contributions by other governments. In Canada, for example, the federal and provincial govenrments often contribute to general and special projects on a contribution basis - e.g., by matching funds provided by the municipal or other levels of government. To the extent a government in a local area attempts to minimize tax burdens on local residents by offloading responsibility to higher levels of government, the higher levels of government may be reluctant to contribute funds to special projects. After all, they know any contribution will not in fact increase expenditures on those projects but will be diverted to other unfunded pet projects or used to keep the municipal tax burden low.
The issue that should be examined, at the core, is whether the Arab sector is a net contributor or net drain on public resources. To the extent that they are a net drain, it means that what they are complaining about is not receiving a sufficient subsidy from the rest of society (in the same way the ultra-religious sector does).
That would be an important thing to consider, though that does NOT mean they should not be entitled to what they get or anything like that.
One thing that is constantly lost in all this talk of state support is the responsibility of individuals and individual communities to better their own lots. Throwing money at schooling is not helpful, as numerous US studies have shown. What matters is quality, as well as the goals and methods of the community, including individual students and families, in pursuing education. It isn 't always somebody else's fault when an individul or subset of individuals achieves bad outcomes. People need to take resposnsibility for their own situations.
Sorry, just a bit of a right wing rant thrown in for good measure to keep this in the proper frame of reference.
Jewish population in Israel is declining - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Ignore the somewhat sensationalist title, as it is somewhat misleading in nature. What is occuring is the % of the Population of Jews in Israel, (proper and occupied territories is declining.
The demographic issue was I believe the reason Sharon decided to pull out of Gaza.
What an utterly baseless and biased post.If the Israelies didn't hate everyone so badly, then Israel could realize that they are not alone. There are many seemingly peaceful countries around that have been at the verge of losing their land ever since ww2. Hungary could be one prominent example. If Israel had any global outlook and a scientific mindset to add to international politics, then it could cooperatively produce a world-wide framework of empowering such countries. But Israel thinks that guns are the only answer and the only god, pretty much like half of Europe, so no wonder Israel's people will become an ever shrinking minority. It is countries like Israel that give the license to everyone that ethnic violence is good, just keep reloading your gun.
What an utterly baseless and biased post.
Bafflingly reviving a 2 year old Off-topic (to the venom) string to make it.
What does "Israel hating everyone else" have to with with Percentage population decline.
What?What is baseless and biassed in it?
When you invent and incite ethnic violance, like Israel does (and Slavonic East Europe does), then you essentially proclaim that you want to kill your neighboring ethnic groups.
"Alternative plan" for what? Existence?What is interesting is that Israel has absolutely no alternative plan, not even as a mental excercise.
What?
Your first sentence, ie, IS baseless and biased as well as the entire post before that. ([no] "Global outlook" [no] "scientifc mindset"!)
Care to back them?
In fact, the reverse is true. It's always been Muslim-Arab hate for the Jews; and of course Christians who'be been heavily purged throughout the Middle East.
Again, the rest of your first post in the string as well, was completely baseless 'stuff', you haven't even attempted to justify.
In case you haven't noticed, that's why South Sudan was just created (!) to separate/protect the Blacker animist/Christian South from the more Arabo-Muslim North.
Lets Blame those 'Ethnic supremacist' South Sudanese.
And why there are 50,000 Black Sudanese refugees (including Muslims) in ISRAEL instead of Racist Arab countries like Egypt they perilously scurried THROUGH to get there.
"Alternative plan" for what? Existence?
This isn't even sane reply and has dropped All your previous and Baseless slander as I called you on those Bigoted premises and you couldn't back Any of them!You make it sound like other (European) countries didn't have to make alternative plans for their existance. Have you heard of Szekler Land (central Europe) for example? And I am a Christian, I am on the side of the South Sudanese. But my point is this: when you (your country) is being flooded with zombies (okay call them muslims, the name of the enemy is immaterial), then what do you do? Guns don't work all the way. Has Israel ever come up with even a try for an idea?
!If South Sudan works, that is VERY good, but the difference is that in South Sudan the majority IS Christian. In Israel the majority is not jewish.
This isn't even sane reply and has dropped All your previous and Baseless slander as I called you on those Bigoted premises and you couldn't back Any of them!
Splash 1.
!
Israel is 75% Jewish. Demographics of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Splash II.
If it was 100% Jewish you would blame the for that too, of course.
Your post are Ridiculous and necessarily Flee from one goofy Wrong claim to another, unburdened/not-responsible by what you said in the last.
No.
This thread claims that Israel is only 65 % jewish and decreasing.
ab9924 #18 said:....the difference is that in South Sudan the majority IS Christian. In Israel the majority is Not jewish.
I could swear 65% IS a majority. (even using your number for arguments sake)ab09924 #20 said:No. This thread claims that Israel is only 65 % jewish and decreasing.
I'm an American 100%. Never even been to Israel.ab9924 said:You have a problem. Soon you will be a minority in your own country where the majority doesn't even just coexist with you but actively hates you and wants to get rid of you. Then what do you do? Israel has to realize that guns are not going to buy their answers, simply not powerful enough. And no jewish person seems mentally capable to even comprehend this situation, so far.
I could swear 65% IS a majority. (even using your number for arguments sake)
What a Joke your posts are.
I'm an American 100%. Never even been to Israel.
Your every post is Ignorant slander and you Cannot back a single thing you said. NOT ONE.
In fact, Now we have you impeaching Yourself in re "majority"
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?