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To bash Jews? IDK. It's like the best joke ever told. We'll take your Holy Texts, claim you've read them wrong your entire life and then when you protest, declare that your entire people are responsible for killing Jesus (Matthew 27:24-25) and use that citation to conduct two centuries worth of pogroms and ethnic purges.Presuppositionalism at its best. Why debate messianic prophecies if you start the whole thing by saying they are true?
Hi, actual Jew here. Most of the stuff the Logicman tries to pull in support of his religious beliefs are a few thoughts written by a handful of rabbis over several thousand years. .
I will also point out that a number of it are forgeries, or quoted out of context. It also totally ignores the idea that the concept of 'MESSIAH" is different in the Jewish religion verses the Christian religion.
Christians can have their myths. But when they try to appropriate Jewish ones and lie about them, then it's wrong.
Which is fine. Christians can have their myths. But when they try to appropriate Jewish ones and lie about them, then it's wrong.
Many Rabbis and Jews formulate their views around refusing that Jesus is the Messiah and then rationalizing their view around that by trying to interpret Messianic prophecies in a way that meets their interest. When Jesus came the Jews were persecuted and under occupation by the Romans, they wanted the Messiah to be a deliverer to bring Israel back to independence and free from Rome.
Regardless, the prophecies Jesus made came true.
However, Judaism is obsolete with the law being fulfilled
Um, this didn't happen though. Jerusalem was basically destroyed by the romans well after the christian founder's death. That's some savior.
Hardly. And that whole 'second coming' ****, we're still waiting last i checked.
Gee and i wonder why such a claim would be made at that time. Possibly because judaism was competition for followers? I can do this too. "I hereby proclaim all of the NT obsolete." Now worship me
This is a debate concerning the Jewish / Christian Messiah and the corresponding Messianic prophecies.
For the interest of this debate, we will assume there is a Messiah, as foretold in the Bible / Tanakh, and go from there.
I'll start things off with this article, which discusses why Israel missed recognizing its Messiah.
Why Israel Missed its Messiah « The Righter Report
1. They were expecting Messiah ben David (the ‘Conquering King’) to appear, and Messiah ben Joseph (the ‘Suffering Servant’ – Jesus Christ) appeared first instead.
2. Most of them missed the times foretold about when the Messiah was to appear – in the first century A.D. And,
3. Almost no one prior to the first century expected two faces and two advents of the Messiah. But the first advent is documented in Jesus Christ, and the second is expected as surely as the first.
Let the fur fly...
"Fulfilled prophesies" are usually BS. The prophesy is typically vague enough to apply to multiple scenarios and one just waits till one fits the bill and claims fulfillment.
Usually bs. But not in the case of Jesus.
Yeah, that's rather convenient. Probably still BS though.
Yeah, that's rather convenient. Probably still BS though.
Which if true would inevitably would drive one to become Muslim.To bash Jews? IDK. It's like the best joke ever told. We'll take your Holy Texts, claim you've read them wrong your entire life and then when you protest, declare that your entire people are responsible for killing Jesus (Matthew 27:24-25) and use that citation to conduct two centuries worth of pogroms and ethnic purges.
This is a debate concerning the Jewish / Christian Messiah and the corresponding Messianic prophecies.
For the interest of this debate, we will assume there is a Messiah, as foretold in the Bible / Tanakh, and go from there.
I'll start things off with this article, which discusses why Israel missed recognizing its Messiah.
Among Jesus' unfulfilled Jewish messianic prophecies is Isaiah 42:4, of course, one of the issues with Christianity is that they cannot even agree on a single translation, resulting in differing interpretations, and there are also those apologists who are willing to postpone the fulfillment of Jewish messianic prophecies until the "Second Coming", which is not supported in the OT.
So you can say that Israel missed the messiah, but can you defend Jesus' failure to fulfill the Isaiah 42:4 prophecy?
1. The 2,150 year old Dead Sea "Isaiah Scroll" provides good supporting evidence for what we have today:
"And he will not grow faint or be crushed until he has established justice on earth; and the coastlands will inherit his law."
http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah?id=42:4
2. Where does it say in the Bible that the Messiah will only come once?
Until you can provide for me where in the Bible it says the Messiah will only come once, then the answer is Jesus will fulfill the remaining Messianic prophecies at his 2nd Coming.
What's more, as is documented in the previous link, various Jewish rabbis have concluded that Daniel chapter 9 speaks about the Messiah. And in Daniel chapter 9, it says that he (the Messiah) will be "cut off" (killed), and then, AFTER THAT, "war will continue until the end."
So, either the Messiah returns from the dead, or a second Messiah will have to usher in the ultimate millennial reign. Which will you have?
Seems obvious that, "he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth", indicates something that will be done with no "second coming" even implied. That the Christian God, Jesus, needs two chances to get right what the prophecied Jewish messiah, a mere mortal, was to accomplish is an apology, a defense of Jesus' failure.
So basically, you're saying the omnipotent God needs a second chance to get things right. Fallible humans, however, and according to the religious, get no such second chances.
I don't see why, with the qualities attributed to God, Jesus couldn't have gotten things right the first time.
Like I said, various Jewish rabbis have concluded that Daniel chapter 9 speaks about the Messiah. And in Daniel chapter 9, it says that he (the Messiah) will be "cut off" (killed), and then, AFTER THAT, "war will continue until the end." So, either the Messiah returns from the dead, or a second Messiah will have to usher in the ultimate millennial reign. Which will you have?
Do you have an answer for that?
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