Aryan Imperium
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Aryan Imperium said:http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
I have initiated this as a seperate thread from the one that discusses the alleged negro origins of jesus xrist as there were complaints from certain posters that this discussion was detracting from the issue of the other thread.
I invite people to study the above mentioned site with an open mind and then contribute thoughtful posts on this thread.
Gibberish said:Most Christians go on faith that Jesus existed and did what he did, rather then on scientific fact. Which makes that research pointless towards that demographic. I do wait for someone to post in favor of the bible with a higher knowledge on the bibles historical backing then I have.
Aryan, you might enjoy reading "Where God Was Born" by Bruce Feiler.
Aryan Imperium said:Gibberish, strangely I don`t have any issues with those who accept some metahistorical validity to the xrist myth but I am agaisnt those who have sought to present the myth as having an historical and/or scientific basis which of course it hasn`t. In the name of "xrist" millions throughout the world have perished,cultures and religions have all but disappeared and truth has been suppressed.
Lamentably this side of xtianity still continues albeit in a muted form and it is troubling that again in the name of xrist world statesmen such as Bush and Blair wage their crusades against the moslem world. They do not keep their religion to themselves but use it as a motivating force to wage war agaisnt cultures which to them are alien.
FinnMacCool said:Huh? Ancient hindu gods wha?
George_Washington said:Ok Aryan let me get this straight. You have problems believing that Jesus Christ existed who lived roughly 2000 years ago...but yet you firmly believe in ancient Hindu gods that lived about 5000-6000 years ago.
O.K.
Aryan Imperium said:George,
I don`t believe in the gods in the same way that a child may believe in Father Xmas. I view the gods as archetypes,present within the Collective Unconscious that can be manifested in certain conditions. This is how I and many other Wotanists view Wotan.
I have no problem with people believing in xrist as an archetype but I do take issue with anyone who attempts to make me believe that this literary composite ever existed in a physical sense.
As an Aryan I have my gods,my own archetypes which resonate better with my spiritual make up,far better than any deities from the semitic pantheon.
jallman said:The really frightful thing is that I understand how your faith works. Mine is very similar...I believe deeply in the icons and archetypes that resonate with catholocism...the majesty of the church and the intervention of the saints...the relics and the structure. Not so much in a mythical sense, but more that the icons and themes are symbolic keys to the psyche and a common weltanschaung that mankind shares. Belief in the parting of the red sea is like believing in the easter bunny to me...but it is symbolic of the strength one can draw from divinity.
George_Washington said:Do you believe in the Trinity, Heaven, and Hell existing as real, physical entities?
Gibberish said:Most Christians go on faith that Jesus existed and did what he did, rather then on scientific fact. Which makes that research pointless towards that demographic. I do wait for someone to post in favor of the bible with a higher knowledge on the bibles historical backing then I have.
Aryan, you might enjoy reading "Where God Was Born" by Bruce Feiler.
jallman said:Not at all actually. I believe the trinity is an archetype symbolising male power and spirituality, just like the Hecate goddess image symbolizes the female spirituality and power. Heaven and hell, I believe are states of mind inflicted by the psyche in response to self realization of the balance of something akin to karma.
I would put forth a quote from paradise lost....it is a quote by satan, another powerful archetype with a symbology all its own.
"The mind is its own place
And can make a heaven of hell
Or a hell of heaven...
What matter where if I still be the same."
I believe that the icons and the imagery found within the ritualism radiates with my psyche much more completely than any other philosophy. The images and symbols are very powerful in meditating on the state of my own inner self and they unlock deeper and deeper levels of my personal beliefs. It is very difficult to relate...but I also feel I dont have to elaborate too deeply as the quest for self revelation is quite personal. If the questions are posed, I will openly muse upon them.
George_Washington said:I'm just kind of confused then. How exactly do you consider yourself Catholic if you don't believe in God?
jallman said:I never said I dont believe in the god figure. I believe in the divine aspect of reality...the aspect which brings an order and reason to an ordered and well concieved world. I just dont believe in a white bearded man who sits in the sky and watches over you every second of your life.
George_Washington said:Yeah I don't think God actually is a white bearded old man. I do believe he can take whatever form he chooses but his true form might be inconceivable for us to imagine here on Earth.
Aryan Imperium said:Do you accept that the church temporal was in error over the way in which it propagated its faith and condemned millions to death over the words of a god of "love"?
Aryan Imperium said:http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
...
I invite people to study the above mentioned site with an open mind and then contribute thoughtful posts on this thread.
Did a historical Jesus exist?
by Jim Walker
... the evidence the Christians present us cannot serve as justification for reliable evidence for a historical Jesus.
All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people ... there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus reveal that [their] authors wrote well after the life of the alleged ... (Jim Walker)
All documents about Jesus ... from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. (Jim Walker)
Hearsay provides no proof or good evidence ...
(Hearsay does not work as evidence ...)
... therefore, we should dismiss it. (Jim Walker)
We know that mythology can arise out of no good information whatsoever. (Jim Walker)
We live in a world where many people believe in demons, UFOs, ghosts, or monsters, and an innumerable number of fantasies believed as fact ...
... and the same reasoning must go against the claims of [an] historical Jesus or any other historical person. (Jim Walker)
So? Would the fact that no contemporary writing might ever mention me prove that I had never existed? The above only proves that not a single contemporary writing mentions “Jesus” – it does not prove “no ‘Jesus’”.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:The problem is that with as "important" as jesus was, someone should have written something about him fromthe time, not well after the fact.Not neccessarily because you're not taking into account the time. Hardly anybody could read or write back then. People didn't look at written accounts like we do. They preferred to pass things down through oral traditions.
Not neccessarily because you're not taking into account the time. Hardly anybody could read or write back then. People didn't look at written accounts like we do. They preferred to pass things down through oral traditions.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:You're kidding, right? There were many nations with significant quantities of learned men for centuries. Not one of them could write anything on the man? Was jesus unable to write too? If so few could read, how did any legal systems work. They had to be codified. If no one could read them, how could they follow them?
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:The problem is that with as "important" as jesus was, someone should have written something about him from the time ...
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