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Jesus Christ of the Gospels Never Existed According to History

Jack2aTee

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There's an old expression,”If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's a duck.”

This expression is very applicable to Jesus Christ.

“If Jesus looks like a myth, and walks like a myth, and quacks like a myth then he is a myth.”

Disclaimer: When I speak of Jesus I am referring to the Jesus Christ of the gospels and Acts. I acknowledge there may have been an earthly character upon which the legend of Jesus Christ was based. Most scholars accept this although they have no historical proof for such.

I can give you a few dozen credible reasons—let's call them “facts” why the Jesus of the New Testament is a myth. Plain and simple, he never existed. That many credible reasons adds up to a mountain of proof.

Christians cannot give you a single credible reason why the Jesus of the New Testament was and is real. The one possible “fact” they can offer is that Josephus is reputed to have written a single phrase in his Antiquities of the Jews:

“...so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ...”

That's it. In the entire 1st century when Christianity was supposedly spreading like wildfire across the Mediterranean, a single historian supposedly says a single phrase about a Jesus so-called the Christ and Christians say “Ah ha! You see? That's proof Jesus was real.”

But there are a lot of problems with this phrase:


  1. It does not identify which Jesus is the brother of James, since Jesus was a common name in that era, (there are 20 so-named in Josephus), and no secular scholars believe Josephus ever wrote that any Jesus was “Christ”.
  2. It is inconsistent with the other non-Josephan accounts of James' death. In other accounts, historians write of a large gang of Jews collectively murdering him as well as their leaders (with no reference to Ananus as in Josephus).
  3. It would be one of only 2 places in the entire catalogue of Josephus’s works where he says someone was said to be a Messiah or Christ — not even other clearly would-be messiahs were so described by Josephus

For brevity I've left off four other important reasons why it is wise to question the authenticity of this phrase as being written by Josephus. Most secular scholars believe it is an interpolation by Eusebius 4th century henchman to Constantine to make Jesus look real. Interested parties can read the other reasons here:

https://vridar.org/2010/02/13/that-b...ephuss-teacup/

Bart Ehrman, noted Bible historian had this to say about Jesus:

“In the entire Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religious scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
— Bart Ehrman (c.2012)

John Remsburg, an American skeptic in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, in his 1909 book, The Christ, lists forty-two ancient writers who did not mention Jesus.

Barbara G.Walker, noted author:

"One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus' existence in any contemporary source."

__ Barbara G.Walker ("The Jesus Myth")

https://ffrf.org/about/getting-acqua...the-jesus-myth

Clement, Bishop of Rome c. 100 CE mentions not a single detail of Jesus' life in his 1st Epistle. His 2nd Epistle is a known forgery.

Paul, the apostle doesn't mention any details of Jesus earthly life prior to his supposed crucifixion.

That would be enough to make most sensible question whether the Jesus of the New Testament really existed, but there are more—many, MANY more reasons why I can definitively say the Jesus of the New Testament was a myth.
 
One of the most powerful proofs is what we find in something called the Rank-Raglan mythotype scale. This is a scale devised by, Otto Rank, a contemporary psychiatrist of Carl Jung and an archeologist, Lord Raglan.

“Otto Rank and Lord Raglan noticed that mythical characters often share similar biographical traits. They attempted to score people against biographical criteria that supposedly allowed mythical and historic characters to be distinguished. Jesus's biography fits Lord Raglan's hero pattern remarkably well, with Jesus having a score of 18 to 20 out of 22. This makes him comparable with several legendary heroes, like Romulus and King Arthur (both 19) and Hercules (17).”

Here are the 22 traits. You will readily notice nearly all of them in the story of Jesus as it appears in the gospels:


  1. Mother is a royal virgin (Jesus' mother Mary was a descendant of David)
  2. Father is a king (God is king of the universe)
  3. Father often a near relative to mother (Joseph was 2nd cousin to Mary)
  4. Unusual conception (Jesus' mother, Mary impregnated by the Holy Spirit)
  5. Hero reputed to be son of god (Jesus was the son of God)
  6. Attempt to kill hero as an infant, often by father or maternal grandfather (Herod tried to kill Jesus when he was a baby)
  7. Hero spirited away as a child (Jesus, Mary and Joseph flee to Egypt)
  8. Reared by foster parents in a far country (Jesus reared in Egypt until Herod dies)
  9. No details of childhood (Jesus' childhood is a complete blank)
  10. Returns or goes to future kingdom (Jesus goes to temple and proclaims himself fulfillment of Isaiah prophecy)
  11. Is victor over king, giant, dragon or wild beast (Jesus defeats Satan)
  12. Marries a princess (often daughter of predecessor)
  13. Becomes king (“This is Jesus, King of the Jews”)
  14. For a time he reigns uneventfully
  15. He prescribes laws (Jesus' teachings on how one should live)
  16. Later loses favor with gods or his subjects (Jews deliver Jesus up to be crucified)
  17. Driven from throne and city
  18. Meets with mysterious death (Jesus, declared by Pilate to be innocent, is still crucified)
  19. Often at the top of a hill (Jesus on Golgatha)
  20. His children, if any, do not succeedhim
  21. His body is not buried (Jesus not thrown in a pit as per custom)
  22. Has one or more holy sepulchers or tombs (Jesus buried in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank%E...glan_mythotype

Note a list of the other mythical heroes who share nearly all the same traits as Jesus:
Oedipus (21 or 22 points), Theseus (20 points), Moses (20 points) Dionysos (19 points), Romulus (18 points), Heracles (17 points), Perseus (18 points), Jason (15 points), Bellerophon (16 points), Pelops (13 points),, Apollo (11 points), Zeus (15 points), Joseph (12 points), , Elijah (9 points)

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hero_pattern
 
So this astonishing fact begs the question:

Is it likely that the Jesus of the gospels lived his life out coincidentally nearly exactly the way Romulus and Hercules lived out theirs,

OR did the gospel writers borrow traits from other mythical heroes' lives who preceded Jesus because these kinds of traits were familiar to the audience of the day?

Just these two facts—no historical record for Jesus, and Jesus' life reading like that of a dozen mythological heroes—should be enough to convince most logical-thinking people that the Jesus of the New Testament wasn't a real person, he was a myth.

But if that doesn't convince you, there is more—much MUCH more than can be squeezed into this tiny space called an OP that would prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the Jesus of the New Testament never existed.

So a Christian is confront with this question: "Am I going to continue believing in this Jesus Christ character for whom there isn't the slightest bit of evidence he ever existed, or am I going to continue to believe in Jesus based solely on the warm fuzzy feeling I get in my heart whenever I think of him?"
 
* waits for Josephus...
Oh I know--he's is ALWAYS their first "go-to" when the topic comes up. That's why i addressed him in the OP. The Josephus entry has been proven to be a fraud--inserted by Eusebius in the 4th Century.

The Josephus Testimonium: Let’s Just Admit It’s Fake Already​


 
Oh I know--he's is ALWAYS their first "go-to" when the topic comes up. That's why i addressed him in the OP.
My apologies. I did do a quick scan and didn't see the name. I haven't read the whole OP yet, but I'm familiar with the argument.

The Josephus entry has been proven to be a fraud--inserted by Eusebius in the 4th Century.

The Josephus Testimonium: Let’s Just Admit It’s Fake Already​


Yeah, I've read that as well. Even if it's legitimate, what Josephus wrote was hearsay concerning rumor. He had heard of gossip about a healer, or some such. Worthless as testimony.
 
It matters not if Jesus actually existed and stories were embellished from his time, or if they simply made Jesus up as a character to arrive at the same stories. What does matter is what ended up in text from the period was a combination of stories that existed all throughout the region from what we call the Middle East to all over north Africa for hundreds of years. Combined stories, altered stories, flat out copied stories told time and time again.

Ultimately it did not take all these writings to gain legitimacy, many versions and much text all existed anyway. What it took was several organized debates, using all sorts of text from all over the region, some included as is, some excluded as is, some altered yet again to make all this mesh, all in an effort to give all this work legitimacy. And it was all care of the Roman Empire entirely, uncaring and unforgiving to alternate explanation including all the areas of their empire those alternates existed in.

Let all that sink in.
 
I don't have a problem with Jesus. My problem is that Christians are the people who behave the least like Christ.

true.

we are not taught the Doctrine of holiness, people are taught 'eternal security'. regardless of what you do, heaven is yours; that is not in the bible, but many churches teach that.

may wanna think different.




Life in the Son  2.webp...you can't beat Robert Shank on this issue. many have tried and the result is FAIL

catch it on amazon.


.
 
I always think whether he was a historical figure or not doesn’t matter. The words attributed to him are enough.
 
I don't have a problem with Jesus. My problem is that Christians are the people who behave the least like Christ.

That's true for many Christians, but not for most. Christian communities are not groups of perfect people. They are people struggling to live righteous lives in accordance to God's will, and often fail.
 
There's an old expression,”If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's a duck.”

This expression is very applicable to Jesus Christ.

“If Jesus looks like a myth, and walks like a myth, and quacks like a myth then he is a myth.”

Disclaimer: When I speak of Jesus I am referring to the Jesus Christ of the gospels and Acts. I acknowledge there may have been an earthly character upon which the legend of Jesus Christ was based. Most scholars accept this although they have no historical proof for such.

I can give you a few dozen credible reasons—let's call them “facts” why the Jesus of the New Testament is a myth. Plain and simple, he never existed. That many credible reasons adds up to a mountain of proof.

Christians cannot give you a single credible reason why the Jesus of the New Testament was and is real. The one possible “fact” they can offer is that Josephus is reputed to have written a single phrase in his Antiquities of the Jews:

“...so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ...”

That's it. In the entire 1st century when Christianity was supposedly spreading like wildfire across the Mediterranean, a single historian supposedly says a single phrase about a Jesus so-called the Christ and Christians say “Ah ha! You see? That's proof Jesus was real.”

But there are a lot of problems with this phrase:


  1. It does not identify which Jesus is the brother of James, since Jesus was a common name in that era, (there are 20 so-named in Josephus), and no secular scholars believe Josephus ever wrote that any Jesus was “Christ”.
  2. It is inconsistent with the other non-Josephan accounts of James' death. In other accounts, historians write of a large gang of Jews collectively murdering him as well as their leaders (with no reference to Ananus as in Josephus).
  3. It would be one of only 2 places in the entire catalogue of Josephus’s works where he says someone was said to be a Messiah or Christ — not even other clearly would-be messiahs were so described by Josephus

For brevity I've left off four other important reasons why it is wise to question the authenticity of this phrase as being written by Josephus. Most secular scholars believe it is an interpolation by Eusebius 4th century henchman to Constantine to make Jesus look real. Interested parties can read the other reasons here:

https://vridar.org/2010/02/13/that-b...ephuss-teacup/

Bart Ehrman, noted Bible historian had this to say about Jesus:

“In the entire Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religious scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
— Bart Ehrman (c.2012)

John Remsburg, an American skeptic in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, in his 1909 book, The Christ, lists forty-two ancient writers who did not mention Jesus.

Barbara G.Walker, noted author:

"One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus' existence in any contemporary source."

__ Barbara G.Walker ("The Jesus Myth")

https://ffrf.org/about/getting-acqua...the-jesus-myth

Clement, Bishop of Rome c. 100 CE mentions not a single detail of Jesus' life in his 1st Epistle. His 2nd Epistle is a known forgery.

Paul, the apostle doesn't mention any details of Jesus earthly life prior to his supposed crucifixion.

That would be enough to make most sensible question whether the Jesus of the New Testament really existed, but there are more—many, MANY more reasons why I can definitively say the Jesus of the New Testament was a myth.
Didn't I read that Tacitus mentioned Jesus being sentenced by Pilate.
 
That's true for many Christians, but not for most. Christian communities are not groups of perfect people. They are people struggling to live righteous lives in accordance to God's will, and often fail.
The real problem is that the whole premise of a religion or church (as we typically understand those words now) runs counter to the message of Christ. I have no doubt that there are many people who truly believe they are giving their best shot, but the results are the same as if they were not.
 
Even if you spend your entire life, praying wishing, and hoping that you can turn actual lead into actual gold, no matter how sincere your desire, that won’t happen. And this pursuit will probably lead you to cause needless suffering in yourself and the people around you.
 
There's an old expression,”If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's a duck.”

This expression is very applicable to Jesus Christ.

“If Jesus looks like a myth, and walks like a myth, and quacks like a myth then he is a myth.”

Be careful, you are in danger of making the same mistakes that apologists make. You cannot prove a negative and you certainly can't do it with a razor.

Disclaimer: When I speak of Jesus I am referring to the Jesus Christ of the gospels and Acts. I acknowledge there may have been an earthly character upon which the legend of Jesus Christ was based. Most scholars accept this although they have no historical proof for such.

I can give you a few dozen credible reasons—let's call them “facts” why the Jesus of the New Testament is a myth. Plain and simple, he never existed. That many credible reasons adds up to a mountain of proof.

You should at least provide a couple of them if you are going to make the claim you can. But again... you cannot prove a negative.

Christians cannot give you a single credible reason why the Jesus of the New Testament was and is real. The one possible “fact” they can offer is that Josephus is reputed to have written a single phrase in his Antiquities of the Jews:

“...so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ...”

That's it. In the entire 1st century when Christianity was supposedly spreading like wildfire across the Mediterranean, a single historian supposedly says a single phrase about a Jesus so-called the Christ and Christians say “Ah ha! You see? That's proof Jesus was real.”

But there are a lot of problems with this phrase:


  1. It does not identify which Jesus is the brother of James, since Jesus was a common name in that era, (there are 20 so-named in Josephus), and no secular scholars believe Josephus ever wrote that any Jesus was “Christ”.
  2. It is inconsistent with the other non-Josephan accounts of James' death. In other accounts, historians write of a large gang of Jews collectively murdering him as well as their leaders (with no reference to Ananus as in Josephus).
  3. It would be one of only 2 places in the entire catalogue of Josephus’s works where he says someone was said to be a Messiah or Christ — not even other clearly would-be messiahs were so described by Josephus

For brevity I've left off four other important reasons why it is wise to question the authenticity of this phrase as being written by Josephus. Most secular scholars believe it is an interpolation by Eusebius 4th century henchman to Constantine to make Jesus look real. Interested parties can read the other reasons here:

https://vridar.org/2010/02/13/that-b...ephuss-teacup/

Bart Ehrman, noted Bible historian had this to say about Jesus:

“In the entire Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religious scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
— Bart Ehrman (c.2012)

John Remsburg, an American skeptic in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, in his 1909 book, The Christ, lists forty-two ancient writers who did not mention Jesus.

Barbara G.Walker, noted author:

"One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus' existence in any contemporary source."

__ Barbara G.Walker ("The Jesus Myth")

https://ffrf.org/about/getting-acqua...the-jesus-myth

Clement, Bishop of Rome c. 100 CE mentions not a single detail of Jesus' life in his 1st Epistle. His 2nd Epistle is a known forgery.

Paul, the apostle doesn't mention any details of Jesus earthly life prior to his supposed crucifixion.

That would be enough to make most sensible question whether the Jesus of the New Testament really existed, but there are more—many, MANY more reasons why I can definitively say the Jesus of the New Testament was a myth.

download.webp

You are not going to get anywhere with this line of reasoning. I will agree that the data you provide makes it unlikely that Jesus existed, but it does not mean that he definitely didn't.
 
Even if you spend your entire life, praying wishing, and hoping that you can turn actual lead into actual gold, no matter how sincere your desire, that won’t happen. And this pursuit will probably lead you to cause needless suffering in yourself and the people around you.

Suffering is not meaningless.

"In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice.”
― Viktor E. Frankl,
Man’s Search for Meaning
 
Suffering is not meaningless.

"In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice.”
― Viktor E. Frankl,
Man’s Search for Meaning
Suffering is not meaningless, I agree. In fact it’s often necessary to lead one to truth personally. Causing unnecessary suffering in others, in pursuit of desire, is what I was talking about.

Sacrifice at that level requires complete understanding. Otherwise it may be duty or honor or just ignorance, but it would not be true sacrifice.
 
It matters not if Jesus actually existed and stories were embellished from his time, or if they simply made Jesus up as a character to arrive at the same stories. What does matter is what ended up in text from the period was a combination of stories that existed all throughout the region from what we call the Middle East to all over north Africa for hundreds of years. Combined stories, altered stories, flat out copied stories told time and time again.
That these ancient, fabricated stories should have such a profound effect on intelligent, educated people in 2024 speaks to a childlike mindset not evolved.

It mimics the silly mentality our very young have, believing in all sorts of things.
 
Most historians accept Jesus was a real historical figure, though obviously just a normal human, not the son of god.
 
Arguments can never convince someone for whom "but it says it here in this book" is absolute proof.

doesn't matter

talk to people who have experienced Jesus

talk to people who have had a near death experience.


most of all TALK to yourself at Judgement Day, and you will say this is SO real....




0001_07.gif...Cartoon man is his own joke, sure this aint 'real'.

the only thing NOT real is his attitude.

oh, you wanna find out the Hard Way, step right up.

.
 
It matters not if Jesus actually existed and stories were embellished from his time, or if they simply made Jesus up as a character to arrive at the same stories.

you can't Exaggerate the greatness of who God and Jesus is.

Jesus created the universe and everything in it.

Pip Squeak comes here and says Jesus doesn't exist.

Jesus says you don't exist, out to the Toaster you go....



0001_17.gif...the Angel be like, 'so Jesus don't exist huh?'

he asks again, 'i can't hear you', 'now BOW the kneee'.

boom you go FLAT.

.


What does matter is what ended up in text from the period was a combination of stories that existed all throughout the region from what we call the Middle East to all over north Africa for hundreds of years. Combined stories, altered stories, flat out copied stories told time and time again.

Ultimately it did not take all these writings to gain legitimacy, many versions and much text all existed anyway. What it took was several organized debates, using all sorts of text from all over the region, some included as is, some excluded as is, some altered yet again to make all this mesh, all in an effort to give all this work legitimacy. And it was all care of the Roman Empire entirely, uncaring and unforgiving to alternate explanation including all the areas of their empire those alternates existed in.

Let all that sink in.
 
Most historians accept Jesus was a real historical figure, though obviously just a normal human, not the son of god.

until they meet him on Judgement day.


0001_09.gif...you not gonna try that line at this moment are you?

people, snap out of it.

now.



.
 
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