Let's have some more attacks resulting in multiple people killed or injured by guns! It helps raise the amount of guns sold AND raises the stock price of gun manufacturers!
Dudes adding a 3rd, 4th, and 5th (or more) firearm to their collection will makes everyone safer!
Really? There are plenty of pawn shops here in Florida that sell with no background checks and then there are the gun shows and Craigs list ads too.
The logic is ridiculous...when you get to invent my argument for me. I never said you purchasing new firearms makes me less safe. I have said that gun ownership is positively correlated with an increased risk of homicide or suicide to the owner or those in the owner's home.
As long as you recognize and accept that risk, more power to you.
You just replied to a post where I discuss a meta-study from a peer reviewed journal and you still think it is "anecdotal?" You apparently also need a refresher on the definition.
Really? There are plenty of pawn shops here in Florida that sell with no background checks and then there are the gun shows and Craigs list ads too.
Correlation does not equal causation...PERIOD.
Additionally...there are 45 million firearms owners. You are telling me there are MILLIONS of firearms related accidents and deaths a year? It seems to me that is...well..BS.
Yes. It IS anecdotal. Do you understand why? Because the overwhelming majority of us never have an issue. Making the "anecdotal evidence" being the ones who go AGAINST the grain. The ones who are not even remotely a minority and are closer to a micro minority. Meaning there results that showed where individuals had accidents or did something bad with a gun...isn't the majority. Period. as before: correlation is not causation. And how is it even correlation when a majority never have a problem? An extreme majority.
The logic is ridiculous...when you get to invent my argument for me. I never said you purchasing new firearms makes me less safe. I have said that gun ownership is positively correlated with an increased risk of homicide or suicide to the owner or those in the owner's home.
As long as you recognize and accept that risk, more power to you.
Your logic is wrong. Guns do not make people more at risk for suicide, mental illness makes some people more at risk for suicide, and some people decide to use a gun for the purpose.
Responsible gun ownership doesn't lead to homicide either.......never has.....never will.
Thanks for the education on a basic statistical definition!
And it would be BS...because it is a completely fabricated version of my argument.
Your logic is wrong. Guns do not make people more at risk for suicide, mental illness makes some people more at risk for suicide, and some people decide to use a gun for the purpose.
Responsible gun ownership doesn't lead to homicide either.......never has.....never will.
And again...it doesn't really MATTER that your argument is that having a gun puts you at a greater risk. The reason? You are talking about something that happens LESS than even 0.1% of the time. How is that an "increased risk?" How is that even "correlation?" It seems to me that my "risk" is nearly non existent on a STATISTICAL level.
As for my other post: I could just waive my gun around and fire off rounds and be fine then right? Statistically I'm fine. I am really poking fun at the idea that "anecdotal" evidence of individual experience and actions is somehow less important in determining the risk than a "correlation" that ignores that overwhelming majority of owners never experience a problem.
The individual determines the risk. Not the statistic. My favorite says on this is: 1% chance it is 100% raining.
A Special Note To Parents from The Jason Foundation:
Accessibility to firearms, particularly handguns, influences the rate of teen suicides. Handguns were used in nearly 70% of teen suicides in 1990, up 20% since 1970. A home with a handgun is almost ten times more likely to have a teen suicide than a home without. If you have a gun, please take every precaution when storing it.
--Firearms are the most common method of suicide by youth. This is true for both males and females, younger and older adolescents, and for all races (Kachur et al., 1995).
--The increase in the rate of youth suicide (and the number of deaths by suicide) over the past four decades is largely related to the use of firearms as a method (Boyd & Moscicki, 1986; CDC, 1986; Kachur et al., 1995).
--The most common location for the occurrence of firearm suicides by youth is the home (Brent et al., 1993).
--There is a positive association between the accessibility and availability of firearms in the home and the risk for youth suicide (Brent et al., 1993; Kellerman et al., 1992).
--The risk conferred by guns in the home is proportional to the accessibility (e.g., loaded and unsecured firearms) and the number of guns in the home (Brent et al., 1993; Kellerman et al., 1992).
--Guns in the home, particularly loaded guns, are associated with increased risk for suicide by youth, both with and without identifiable mental health problems or suicidal risk factors (Brent et al., 1993).
--If a gun is used to attempt suicide, a fatal outcome will result 78% to 90% of the time (Annest et al., 1995; Card, 1974)
--Public policy initiatives that restrict access to guns (especially handguns) are associated with a reduction of firearm suicide and suicide overall, especially among youth (Carrington et al., 1994; Loftin et al., 1991; Sloan et al., 1990).
Keep telling yourself that. The problem is that when a gun is used for suicide it is successful in a much higher % than other methods attempted. So you have a lot of dead people that were suffering from a temporary problem that their gun just made permanent. Guns just aren't worth the risk for the tiny chance that you may use it to protect yourself. A gun in the home is far more likely to result in death or injury of yourself or your loved ones than to save them from harm. But you can roll the dice if you want.
I don't need to tell myself anything. A pistol has saved my life twice. Not everyone lives in a fairly safe urban community, or a gated community. Some of us have to work in some very bad neighborhoods.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090930121512.htmIn a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
So your answer is that the statistics don't effect you? If you wre one of the parents who's teen committed suicide with their gun would you still say that the statistics aren't important?
PBS - The Silent Epidemic: Depression
The meta-study that I linked disagrees with you.
Think of it this way - the individuals who eventually decide to commit suicide often experience increased levels of anxiety, fear, depression, hopelessness, etc. Those same attributes might lead an individual to want to purchase a firearm for their own protection. The gun is not causing that person to commit suicide, that blame lies squarely with the depression. However, the overlapping of attributes would also explain why (at least in that situation) why there is a positive correlation between gun ownership and suicide.
Another very simple example would be the fact that suicide by gunshot has a pretty high rate of success. If that rate of success is just slightly higher than the other methods and if the person who attempts, but fails, does not try again - then that would also help to explain the positive correlation between gun ownership and suicide.
I hope your luck keeps holding out then. Most gun owners don't fare so well in confrontations and having a gun actually increases their chances of getting shot. If I were you I would seriously consider moving to a safer area.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090930121512.htm
So your answer is that the statistics don't effect you? If you wre one of the parents who's teen committed suicide with their gun would you still say that the statistics aren't important?
PBS - The Silent Epidemic: Depression
120,000,000 gun owners are not responsible for someone else's weak genes. No more than 120,000,000 beer drinkers are responsible for a drunken date rape. Suicides and homicide by firearms do not even represent the reality of 1% of all gun owners. So no, the statistics represent such a small number, it is irrelevant to the 99.999% of the gun owning population.
If you carry the weak gene that would cause you to want to off yourself or beat your kid when drunk, then by all means, don't own a gun or consume alcohol. But do not assume everyone else has your poor genetics.
Let's have some more attacks resulting in multiple people killed or injured by guns! It helps raise the amount of guns sold AND raises the stock price of gun manufacturers!
Dudes adding a 3rd, 4th, and 5th (or more) firearm to their collection will makes everyone safer!
120,000,000 gun owners are not responsible for someone else's weak genes. No more than 120,000,000 beer drinkers are responsible for a drunken date rape. Suicides and homicide by firearms do not even represent the reality of 1% of all gun owners. So no, the statistics represent such a small number, it is irrelevant to the 99.999% of the gun owning population.
If you carry the weak gene that would cause you to want to off yourself or beat your kid when drunk, then by all means, don't own a gun or consume alcohol. But do not assume everyone else has your poor genetics.
Did you really just use your anecdotal evidence to support that owning guns doesn't lead to accidents or intentional shootings?
How about a meta-study on this very topic that shows gun ownership IS positively associated with criminally intentional injuries by guns, accidental injuries by guns, and intentional self-inflicted injuries by guns?
The Accessibility of Firearms and Risk for Suicide and Homicide Victimization Among Household Members: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis | Annals of Internal Medicine
If those aren't "famous last words" I don't know what is. Please tell me that you don't have children or teenagers that can access your guns without your knowledge. I will feel much better and you won't become part of another statistic.
The meta-study that I linked disagrees with you.
Think of it this way - the individuals who eventually decide to commit suicide often experience increased levels of anxiety, fear, depression, hopelessness, etc. Those same attributes might lead an individual to want to purchase a firearm for their own protection. The gun is not causing that person to commit suicide, that blame lies squarely with the depression. However, the overlapping of attributes would also explain why (at least in that situation) why there is a positive correlation between gun ownership and suicide.
Another very simple example would be the fact that suicide by gunshot has a pretty high rate of success. If that rate of success is just slightly higher than the other methods and if the person who attempts, but fails, does not try again - then that would also help to explain the positive correlation between gun ownership and suicide.
Keep telling yourself that. The problem is that when a gun is used for suicide it is successful in a much higher % than other methods attempted. So you have a lot of dead people that were suffering from a temporary problem that their gun just made permanent. Guns just aren't worth the risk for the tiny chance that you may use it to protect yourself. A gun in the home is far more likely to result in death or injury of yourself or your loved ones than to save them from harm. But you can roll the dice if you want.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?