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It's time to expand the House

NWRatCon

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In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act was passed. We've been on the path wway from democratic representation ever since.

Some background:


Since its passage, the House has stagnated at 435 voting members, although the US population has tripled. That means the average seat represents 760,000 people. But, that is the average - part of the problem. It varies from 542,000 to 991,000. It skews the Electoral College and House significantly toward rural people and underrepresents the majority of the population.

"the average number of people represented in a district has more than tripled, from about 210,000 in 1910 to about 760,000 in 2020.; In 1910, the largest state, New York, had about 9 million more people than the smallest — that is, least populous — state, Nevada. But today, the largest state, California, has nearly 39 million more people than the smallest, Wyoming.
....
Take the smallest and largest states with only one representative: Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. Wyoming, with just under 578,000 people, winds up overrepresented because it’s guaranteed a seat despite falling well short of that 760,000 national average. Conversely, Delaware has nearly 991,000 people, which leaves it underrepresented because it isn’t quite large enough to earn a second seat. Meanwhile, Montana has only about 95,000 more people than Delaware, but that’s enough for the apportionment formula to eke out a second seat, meaning Montana will have two districts to Delaware’s one and an average district size of just over 542,000, making its constituents the most represented in the country."

The average constituent count in rural districts is much smaller than the average in urban districts.


Expansion is not without is own problems. "Clearly, there are pros and cons to increasing the size of the House, but at the very least, the idea should be more openly debated because, in terms of changes that could be made to our institutions, expanding the House is actually doable. For instance, the Senate’s small-state bias often gets a lot more attention, but any change to the Senate would require a constitutional amendment whereas the size of the House could be altered with a simple bill.

“It’s going to be difficult to increase the size of the House of Representatives; I’m under no illusions,” said Frederick of Bridgewater State University. Nevertheless, it may be time for a change given how unequal districts have become between states and how underrepresented Americans are after more than 100 years of being stuck at 435 House members. Said Frederick, “There’s no doubt that a larger House with smaller constituency population size per district would improve the representational quality that citizens receive from members of Congress.”
 
I kind of agree - in the UK there are 650 Members of Parliament for a country of circa 60m

So the USA could spread representation a lot more from 425 members of the House (congressmen) for circa 300m

However I think that congressmen should serve at least 4 years. Right now they only serve for 2 years, which means they're basically non-stop campaigning/fund raising.
 
Ratify Article the First!


The only amendment of the original 12 not ratified.
 
I would agree. The more house members, the harder it is to gerrymander districts.

They will figure out how to self organize after a congressional session or two.
 
I have long advocated the cube root of the population rule, which would have resulted in 692 members in the literal interpretation of the rule, but my preferred variant rounds to the nearest higher odd whole number, which would be 693.

The full apportionment is below for 2020.

California 83
Texas 61
Florida 45
New York 42
Pennsylvania 27
Illinois 27
Ohio 25
Georgia 22
North Carolina 22
Michigan 21
New Jersey 19
Virginia 18
Washington 16
Arizona 15
Massachusetts 15
Tennessee 15
Indiana 14
Maryland 13
Missouri 13
Wisconsin 12
Colorado 12
Minnesota 12
South Carolina 11
Alabama 11
Louisiana 10
Kentucky 9
Oregon 9
Oklahoma 8
Connecticut 8
Utah 7
Iowa 7
Nevada 7
Arkansas 6
Mississippi 6
Kansas 6
New Mexico 4
Nebraska 4
Idaho 4
West Virginia 4
Hawaii 3
New Hampshire 3
Maine 3
Rhode Island 2
Montana 2
Delaware 2
South Dakota 2
North Dakota 2
Alaska 2
Vermont 1
Wyoming 1

693
 
I have long advocated the cube root of the population rule, which would have resulted in 692 members in the literal interpretation of the rule, but my preferred variant rounds to the nearest higher odd whole number, which would be 693.

The full apportionment is below for 2020.

California 83
Texas 61
Florida 45
New York 42
Pennsylvania 27
Illinois 27
Ohio 25
Georgia 22
North Carolina 22
Michigan 21
New Jersey 19
Virginia 18
Washington 16
Arizona 15
Massachusetts 15
Tennessee 15
Indiana 14
Maryland 13
Missouri 13
Wisconsin 12
Colorado 12
Minnesota 12
South Carolina 11
Alabama 11
Louisiana 10
Kentucky 9
Oregon 9
Oklahoma 8
Connecticut 8
Utah 7
Iowa 7
Nevada 7
Arkansas 6
Mississippi 6
Kansas 6
New Mexico 4
Nebraska 4
Idaho 4
West Virginia 4
Hawaii 3
New Hampshire 3
Maine 3
Rhode Island 2
Montana 2
Delaware 2
South Dakota 2
North Dakota 2
Alaska 2
Vermont 1
Wyoming 1

693

Not the worst idea.
 
Ratify Article the First!


The only amendment of the original 12 not ratified.

Unfortunately, there is a fatal scrivener's error in Article the First, which was likely the reason it was never ratified.

The text of the article as sent to the State's for ratification:

After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons.

The original text as passed by the House of Representatives:

After the first enumeration, required by the first Article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons.

Less was clearly the intended language, but at some point in the enrollment of the final Joint Resolution by the Clerk of the House's staff, less got changed to more, which altered the entire purpose of the amendment, rendering it useless.
 
I have long advocated the cube root of the population rule, which would have resulted in 692 members in the literal interpretation of the rule, but my preferred variant rounds to the nearest higher odd whole number, which would be 693.

The full apportionment is below for 2020.

California 83
Texas 61
Florida 45
New York 42
Pennsylvania 27
Illinois 27
Ohio 25
Georgia 22
North Carolina 22
Michigan 21
New Jersey 19
Virginia 18
Washington 16
Arizona 15
Massachusetts 15
Tennessee 15
Indiana 14
Maryland 13
Missouri 13
Wisconsin 12
Colorado 12
Minnesota 12
South Carolina 11
Alabama 11
Louisiana 10
Kentucky 9
Oregon 9
Oklahoma 8
Connecticut 8
Utah 7
Iowa 7
Nevada 7
Arkansas 6
Mississippi 6
Kansas 6
New Mexico 4
Nebraska 4
Idaho 4
West Virginia 4
Hawaii 3
New Hampshire 3
Maine 3
Rhode Island 2
Montana 2
Delaware 2
South Dakota 2
North Dakota 2
Alaska 2
Vermont 1
Wyoming 1

693
The really interesting consequence of this would be it would dilute the problems with the electoral college which currently gives a WY resident 10x the voting power of a CA resident. I like the idea of expanding congress for number reasons, including diluting the power of individual congressman and therefore the money in politics. It would make congressman far more responsive to their districts. I say we should have almost double the number of congressmen --- say 870?
 
In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act was passed. We've been on the path wway from democratic representation ever since.

Some background:


Since its passage, the House has stagnated at 435 voting members, although the US population has tripled. That means the average seat represents 760,000 people. But, that is the average - part of the problem. It varies from 542,000 to 991,000. It skews the Electoral College and House significantly toward rural people and underrepresents the majority of the population.

"the average number of people represented in a district has more than tripled, from about 210,000 in 1910 to about 760,000 in 2020.; In 1910, the largest state, New York, had about 9 million more people than the smallest — that is, least populous — state, Nevada. But today, the largest state, California, has nearly 39 million more people than the smallest, Wyoming.
....
Take the smallest and largest states with only one representative: Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. Wyoming, with just under 578,000 people, winds up overrepresented because it’s guaranteed a seat despite falling well short of that 760,000 national average. Conversely, Delaware has nearly 991,000 people, which leaves it underrepresented because it isn’t quite large enough to earn a second seat. Meanwhile, Montana has only about 95,000 more people than Delaware, but that’s enough for the apportionment formula to eke out a second seat, meaning Montana will have two districts to Delaware’s one and an average district size of just over 542,000, making its constituents the most represented in the country."

The average constituent count in rural districts is much smaller than the average in urban districts.


Expansion is not without is own problems. "Clearly, there are pros and cons to increasing the size of the House, but at the very least, the idea should be more openly debated because, in terms of changes that could be made to our institutions, expanding the House is actually doable. For instance, the Senate’s small-state bias often gets a lot more attention, but any change to the Senate would require a constitutional amendment whereas the size of the House could be altered with a simple bill.

“It’s going to be difficult to increase the size of the House of Representatives; I’m under no illusions,” said Frederick of Bridgewater State University. Nevertheless, it may be time for a change given how unequal districts have become between states and how underrepresented Americans are after more than 100 years of being stuck at 435 House members. Said Frederick, “There’s no doubt that a larger House with smaller constituency population size per district would improve the representational quality that citizens receive from members of Congress.”
Thanks for picking up a belief I've had for some time. The House is set at 435 because that was the number that could fit in the chamber. Here's an idea, take out the big desks, assign states room according to the number of reps and put one standing podium with chairs for the rest. Congress can right this wrong by legislation, no constitutional amendment needed.

Hey all you believers in originalism. If we still have the Electoral College, and each state has House representation based on state population, shouldn't we still have the states have House representation based on state population?

SCOTUS has upheld the legal idea of one person, one vote many times, most recently in Even well v. Abbott.
 
Unfortunately, there is a fatal scrivener's error in Article the First, which was likely the reason it was never ratified.

So you're another that says things should not change, because the Constitution says so.

When Donald Trumps thinks a section of the Constitution is not to his liking, he calls it "phony".
 
So you're another that says things should not change, because the Constitution says so.

When Donald Trumps thinks a section of the Constitution is not to his liking, he calls it "phony".

You do realize that Article the First is NOT part of the Constitution, likely because it is fatally flawed.
 
And please don't link me to Donald Trump. I have vigorously opposed him from the very day he announced his original candidacy back in 2015 and I completely oppose the core principles of MAGA.

So I would rather not be associated with something I oppose.
 
So it doesn't need a constitutional amendment to repeal it ?

No, because it was never added to the Constitution in the first place, it is just still pending ratification.
 
Any number between the cube root of the population, as suggested by Safiel and well known to demographers, and a fixed number, like 250,000 or 500,000 per District (approximately1,320 to 660 seats) would be an improvement and hew closer to the "original intent". As it is now, Congresspeople spend most of their time fundraising and running, gerrymandering is out of control, and misrepresentation is getting more severe. But, I say, one problem at a time. A 50% increase could be easily absorbed. 300% would get too much pushback.
 
Thanks for picking up a belief I've had for some time. The House is set at 435 because that was the number that could fit in the chamber. Here's an idea, take out the big desks, assign states room according to the number of reps and put one standing podium with chairs for the rest. Congress can right this wrong by legislation, no constitutional amendment needed.

Hey all you believers in originalism. If we still have the Electoral College, and each state has House representation based on state population, shouldn't we still have the states have House representation based on state population?

SCOTUS has upheld the legal idea of one person, one vote many times, most recently in Even well v. Abbott.
Easy solution --- hire an airline ergonomics engineer who could easily figure out how to get 2000 sets into that chamber.

".....Please ]return the tray tables and seats to their upright and locked position before exiting the chamber....."
 

Desks were removed in 1913 and replaced by the current seating arrangement. Found the info on the House's kids site. 😄

There are 448 seats, sufficient for the 435 Representatives, 5 Delegates and 1 Resident Commissioner.

However, it is not necessary for all members to be on the floor at once and the rules could be changed to allow remote voting from the House Office Buildings. Only members actually participating in debate or floor activities would need to be on the floor.

The main issue would be lack of office space. At least two new office buildings would be needed for an increase to 693 members and both would have to be some distance from the Capitol and there is no space nearby for a new office building.
 
I agree In a representative republic like what we have the number of US House seats should be adjusted according to the population without the 435 maximum that currently exists.
 
Can we just vote for president and whomever gets the most votes wins????
 
Can we just vote for president and whomever gets the most votes wins????
Different issue, actually, although related. Part of the problem with dysfunction in the House is the unwieldy Districts, and, more importantly, the uneven representation. When two different Congress members represent vastly differently-sized constituencies - up to 80% more - that means that some constituencies are significantly over or under represented.
 
In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act was passed. We've been on the path wway from democratic representation ever since.

Some background:


Since its passage, the House has stagnated at 435 voting members, although the US population has tripled. That means the average seat represents 760,000 people. But, that is the average - part of the problem. It varies from 542,000 to 991,000. It skews the Electoral College and House significantly toward rural people and underrepresents the majority of the population.

"the average number of people represented in a district has more than tripled, from about 210,000 in 1910 to about 760,000 in 2020.; In 1910, the largest state, New York, had about 9 million more people than the smallest — that is, least populous — state, Nevada. But today, the largest state, California, has nearly 39 million more people than the smallest, Wyoming.
....
Take the smallest and largest states with only one representative: Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. Wyoming, with just under 578,000 people, winds up overrepresented because it’s guaranteed a seat despite falling well short of that 760,000 national average. Conversely, Delaware has nearly 991,000 people, which leaves it underrepresented because it isn’t quite large enough to earn a second seat. Meanwhile, Montana has only about 95,000 more people than Delaware, but that’s enough for the apportionment formula to eke out a second seat, meaning Montana will have two districts to Delaware’s one and an average district size of just over 542,000, making its constituents the most represented in the country."

The average constituent count in rural districts is much smaller than the average in urban districts.


Expansion is not without is own problems. "Clearly, there are pros and cons to increasing the size of the House, but at the very least, the idea should be more openly debated because, in terms of changes that could be made to our institutions, expanding the House is actually doable. For instance, the Senate’s small-state bias often gets a lot more attention, but any change to the Senate would require a constitutional amendment whereas the size of the House could be altered with a simple bill.

“It’s going to be difficult to increase the size of the House of Representatives; I’m under no illusions,” said Frederick of Bridgewater State University. Nevertheless, it may be time for a change given how unequal districts have become between states and how underrepresented Americans are after more than 100 years of being stuck at 435 House members. Said Frederick, “There’s no doubt that a larger House with smaller constituency population size per district would improve the representational quality that citizens receive from members of Congress.”

Yeah, just what we need - billions more wasted on campaigns to fill up a giant room with even more bickering twits who accomplish almost nothing.
 
In 1929 the Permanent Apportionment Act was passed. We've been on the path wway from democratic representation ever since.

Some background:


Since its passage, the House has stagnated at 435 voting members, although the US population has tripled. That means the average seat represents 760,000 people. But, that is the average - part of the problem. It varies from 542,000 to 991,000. It skews the Electoral College and House significantly toward rural people and underrepresents the majority of the population.

"the average number of people represented in a district has more than tripled, from about 210,000 in 1910 to about 760,000 in 2020.; In 1910, the largest state, New York, had about 9 million more people than the smallest — that is, least populous — state, Nevada. But today, the largest state, California, has nearly 39 million more people than the smallest, Wyoming.
....
Take the smallest and largest states with only one representative: Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. Wyoming, with just under 578,000 people, winds up overrepresented because it’s guaranteed a seat despite falling well short of that 760,000 national average. Conversely, Delaware has nearly 991,000 people, which leaves it underrepresented because it isn’t quite large enough to earn a second seat. Meanwhile, Montana has only about 95,000 more people than Delaware, but that’s enough for the apportionment formula to eke out a second seat, meaning Montana will have two districts to Delaware’s one and an average district size of just over 542,000, making its constituents the most represented in the country."

The average constituent count in rural districts is much smaller than the average in urban districts.


Expansion is not without is own problems. "Clearly, there are pros and cons to increasing the size of the House, but at the very least, the idea should be more openly debated because, in terms of changes that could be made to our institutions, expanding the House is actually doable. For instance, the Senate’s small-state bias often gets a lot more attention, but any change to the Senate would require a constitutional amendment whereas the size of the House could be altered with a simple bill.

“It’s going to be difficult to increase the size of the House of Representatives; I’m under no illusions,” said Frederick of Bridgewater State University. Nevertheless, it may be time for a change given how unequal districts have become between states and how underrepresented Americans are after more than 100 years of being stuck at 435 House members. Said Frederick, “There’s no doubt that a larger House with smaller constituency population size per district would improve the representational quality that citizens receive from members of Congress.”

More politicians we'd have to pay salaries & pensions to. Brilliant. :rolleyes:
 
More politicians we'd have to pay salaries & pensions to. Brilliant. :rolleyes:
Progress takes commitment. Would you rather they keep getting their "salaries" as gifts from "friends", a la Clarence Thomas? Oh, right... you would.
 
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