Italy - 22 Warrants for CIA Agents

danarhea · Oct 5, 2005

Just where the hell do we get off kidnapping innocent people, then flying them to other countries, where they are tortured?

In February, 2003, the CIA kidnapped Osama Mustafa Hassan in Italy and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured with electric shocks for more than a year. Guess what? Turns out he wasnt a terrorist at all, as the US alleged.

Folks, let me make this plain and simple. For generations, the United States has been a beacon of light to the rest of the world, and the nation known as the bastion of all that is decent and human. Under Bush, that light has been extinguished, and all the rest of the sees on the other side of the Atlantic ocean is a deep, dark hole, from which all semblance of honor, morality, and the American way has disappeared. Instead of seeing us as the light of the world, we are now seen as despicable, and a greater threat to world peace than even bin Laden. And why shouldnt they see us this way? After all, we are doing those very things that, not long ago, we stood steadfastly against. Shame on this administration, whose moral values are as corrupt as the deeds many of them are being indicted for these days.

Article is here.

Deegan · Oct 5, 2005

danarhea said:
Just where the hell do we get off kidnapping innocent people, then flying them to other countries, where they are tortured?

In February, 2003, the CIA kidnapped Osama Mustafa Hassan in Italy and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured with electric shocks for more than a year. Guess what? Turns out he wasnt a terrorist at all, as the US alleged.

Folks, let me make this plain and simple. For generations, the United States has been a beacon of light to the rest of the world, and the nation known as the bastion of all that is decent and human. Under Bush, that light has been extinguished, and all the rest of the sees on the other side of the Atlantic ocean is a deep, dark hole, from which all semblance of honor, morality, and the American way has disappeared. Instead of seeing us as the light of the world, we are now seen as despicable, and a greater threat to world peace than even bin Laden. And why shouldnt they see us this way? After all, we are doing those very things that, not long ago, we stood steadfastly against. Shame on this administration, whose moral values are as corrupt as the deeds many of them are being indicted for these days.

Article is here.

You do have a flair for the dramatic Dan, I am sure he did say we tortured him, that's terrorism 101, claim torture.:roll:

If we are this bastard you claim we now are, we would have cut off his head, and left his headless corpse on the side of the road somewhere in a "third world" country. I just don't think we can wait for these countries to fart around about allowing us to take these suspects in for questioning. I think it's a perfect solution, pick them up, take them in for questioning, and then let them go. What's wrong with this scenario?

gdalton · Oct 5, 2005

Dan, you should take a look at the CIA's history, you will see they where kidnapping people long before Bush took office, they just used to do a better job of keeping it secret.

robin · Oct 5, 2005

It seems there will always be charming people, who proclaim to have high moral values, then behave in completely the opposite manner, who will be prepared to participate in such evil US government activities.

GySgt said:
2) You absolutely cannot stand that I am a person of integrity. I know what I am and I have the conviction to do what is necessary.

Main Entry: in•teg•ri•ty
Pronunciation: in-'te-gr&-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral values

GySgt said:
I'm a Marine and my rifle points where America points it. And that means that if "I" was charged to put a dictator in charge for American security, then I would. That is our reality. All nations serve their own interests.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/19/us.cia.chile.ap/

gdalton · Oct 5, 2005

Well Robi unfortunately we have to do some disturbing things every now and then in order to keep us safe, cause sometimes asking nicely just doesn't seem to work.

robin · Oct 5, 2005

gdalton said:
Well Robi unfortunately we have to do some disturbing things every now and then in order to keep us safe, cause sometimes asking nicely just doesn't seem to work.

Well you can't complain then when people retaliate then can you. Maybe if you hadn't installed so many fascist thugs in the Americas, not to mention armed the Taliban, you wouldn't need to spend $Trillions on the military to make yourself 'feel safe'.
Incidently how has invading a country that had nothing to do with 911 made you more safe ?
Seems like it's just lead to 1900 more US lives being lost & made lots of Muslims a lot more angry..... so made you less safe in the long term !
You've invaded 30million Muslims & upset the other 800 million around the world as a consequence. It's a fly swat.

gdalton · Oct 5, 2005

robin said:
Well you can't complain then when people retaliate then can you. Maybe if you hadn't installed so many fascist thugs in the Americas, not to mention armed the Taliban, you wouldn't need to spend $Trillions on the military to make yourself 'feel safe'.
Incidently how has invading a country that had nothing to do with 911 made you more safe ?
Seems like it's just lead to 1900 more US lives being lost & made lots of Muslims a lot more angry..... so made you less safe in the long term !
You've invaded 30million Muslims & upset the other 800 million around the world as a consequence. It's a fly swat.

Sounds like you are just ranting again, you should probably start another thread for this instead of posting this crap in a thread about the Italians issuing warrants for CIA agents.

robin · Oct 5, 2005

GySgt said:
Well, the truth of the matter is, I would prefer not to kill, but I really don't care one way or the other anymore. I used to care about that, but not so much anymore. It becomes easy to turn that bit of humanity off when the situation arrises. I guess that is the nature of it. It might make me a monster, but I am only bothered by one incident. The rest is what it is.I know you don't care to read that.

Yet more evidence of our friend's capacity to implement dreadful US polices.

gdalton · Oct 5, 2005

robin said:
Yet more evidence of our friend's capacity to implement dreadful US polices.

What the hell Robi boy, take your hard on for Gunny some where else.

robin · Oct 5, 2005

gdalton said:
Well Robi unfortunately we have to do some disturbing things every now and then in order to keep us safe, cause sometimes asking nicely just doesn't seem to work.

"We install or support fascist dictators in the Americas to keep us safe"
gdalton

"We kill the Jewish children to keep us safe, otherwise when they grow up they will kill us"
Heinrich Himmler

gdalton · Oct 5, 2005

robin said:
"We install or support fascist dictators in the Americas to keep us safe"
gdalton

"We kill the Jewish children to keep us safe, otherwise when they grow up they will kill us"
Heinrich Himmler

What a brilliant mind you have robi-boy. I'm amazed you can speak for me so clearly without ever meeting me and you can paint me as a Nazi, truly brilliant. I just don't know how I can compete with such a massive reservoir of intelligence, I am truly in aw. Now, finally, we all know why the CIA kidnapping people is wrong, it’s because I’m a Nazi who supports fascist dictators.

Lovely.

:doh

danarhea · Oct 5, 2005

GySgt said:
Well, the truth of the matter is, I would prefer not to kill, but I really don't care one way or the other anymore. I used to care about that, but not so much anymore. It becomes easy to turn that bit of humanity off when the situation arrises. I guess that is the nature of it. It might make me a monster, but I am only bothered by one incident. The rest is what it is.I know you don't care to read that.

I dont think you are a monster at all. Thank you for protecting Americans and American values. I disagree with the Iraq war, but if I were in Iraq right now, I would follow orders. If they told me to participate in a sweep and clear, I would do that. I realize that, in the military, one cannot question the orders of superiors unless those orders quite clearly violate international law. Those who executed Jews for Hitler clearly were violating international law because those they killed clearly were no threat. They were unarmed and in concentration camps. In Iraq, on the other hand, it is much harder to delineate friend and foe, so there is no shame in obeying your orders. If everyone questioned orders under such circumstances, then discipline would completely break down, and there would be no military to speak of that would keep America safe. All you can do in this kind of a situation is to carry out your mission, and pray that our leaders made wise and moral choices.

My beef is not against you, and never will be. My complaint is against those who sent you. My wish for you at this time is for you to do what you were sent there for to the best of your ability, and to come home safely when the time comes.

Simon W. Moon · Oct 5, 2005

Has GySgt actually posted to this thread?

I see several responses to his posts, but not his posts. What gives?

robin · Oct 5, 2005

gdalton said:
What a brilliant mind you have robi-boy. I'm amazed you can speak for me so clearly without ever meeting me and you can paint me as a Nazi, truly brilliant. I just don't know how I can compete with such a massive reservoir of intelligence, I am truly in aw. Now, finally, we all know why the CIA kidnapping people is wrong, it’s because I’m a Nazi who supports fascist dictators.

Lovely.

:doh

Oh no gdalton, you have it wrong. It was not I that spoke so clearly for you... it was you yourself that did so.

danarhea · Oct 5, 2005

Simon W. Moon said:
Has GySgt actually posted to this thread?

I see several responses to his posts, but not his posts. What gives?

He hasnt, but since someone quoted him here in a derogatory way from another thread, I felt I had to say something in his defense.

robin · Oct 6, 2005

danarhea said:
He hasnt, but since someone quoted him here in a derogatory way from another thread, I felt I had to say something in his defense.

Why defend the indefensible ?

cnredd · Oct 6, 2005

robin said:
Why defend the indefensible ?

Why inject your scatology on this thread when it doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand?

robin · Oct 6, 2005

cnredd said:
Why inject your scatology on this thread when it doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand?

How it came to pass that the CIA wound up with arrest warrants against it, has everything to do with the subject.
It came about becuase of the way some people are prepared to behave.

Billo_Really · Oct 9, 2005

Originally posted by Robin:
How it came to pass that the CIA wound up with arrest warrants against it, has everything to do with the subject.
It came about becuase of the way some people are prepared to behave.

Robin, you want to talk about behavior. Check this out. The behavior of our so-called covert operatives:

A Five-Star Rendition and Other Acts of Relativity

Every administration sets a mood. You can see the one this administration has established reflected way down the line - in, for example, the depths of Abu Ghraib's interrogation chambers. As it happens, you can also catch a glimpse of it in five-star Italian hotels. The other day, Stephen Grey and Don Van Natta of the New York Times reported (Thirteen With the C.I.A. Sought by Italy in a Kidnapping) that an Italian judge had ordered the arrest of 13 American agents, assumedly working for the CIA, for performing an "extraordinary rendition" in Italy. They kidnapped an Egyptian cleric named Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, who may or may not have been linked al-Qaeda, and flew him to Egypt to be tortured. Now, you may imagine that our "shadow warriors," operating in the dark zone of international illegality in the name of our President's Global War on Terror, are Spartan men and women, stripped down for action, ready to sacrifice everything for missions they believe in. You undoubtedly assume that, while in Italy, they laid low, bunking in safe houses, while organizing their covert kidnapping. But wait, these are representatives of the Bush administration, so think again. Here was a paragraph buried deep in the Times piece that caught my eye:

"The [CIA] suspects stayed in five-star Milan hotels, including the Hilton, the Sheraton, the Galia and Principe di Savoia, in the week before the operation, at a cost of $144,984, the [Italian] warrant says, adding that after Mr. Nasr was flown to Egypt, two of the officers took a few days' holiday at five-star hotels in Venice, Tuscany and South Tyrol."

A Washington Post report added this little detail: "The Americans stayed at some of the finest hotels in Milan, sometimes for as long as six weeks, ringing up tabs of as much as $500 a day on Diners Club accounts created to match their recently forged identities." The Los Angeles Times contributed the fact that the $145,000 tab actually only covered accommodations. As it happens, our luxury warriors were gourmets as well. They ran up tabs at Milan's best restaurants.

All of this fits so well with general attitudes at the upper reaches of this self-indulgent administration. Ours is, after all, a war to satisfy our own desires, to make the world the way we wish it - and who wouldn't wish for luxury surroundings and a nice five-star, post-kidnapping vacation in Venice or Florence, all at the taxpayer's expense? (I guarantee, by the way, that our agents also ate all the macadamia nuts and drank all the liquor and downed all the $10 cokes in their mini-fridges.) And yet you can rest assured that no one in this administration is going to demand repayment. In fact, no one has even whispered a word about these expenses so far, no less promised taxpayers our money back, but you wouldn't expect that from an administration that stonewalls for a corporation, Halliburton, which seems to have taken both the American taxpayer and the Iraqis to the five-star cleaners. And while we're at it, let's just note that our rendition teams circle the world not on some scruffy cargo plane, but on a Gulfstream V turbojet, the sort "favored by CEOs and celebrities," as Dana Priest of the Washington Post puts it. This is the mentality not of warriors, of course, but of looters who never saw a payoff or an opening they didn't exploit.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062905K.shtml

Can you believe this bullshit? CIA agents running missions like rock stars in full view of everyone.

Canuck · Oct 9, 2005

danarhea said:
Just where the hell do we get off kidnapping innocent people, then flying them to other countries, where they are tortured?

In February, 2003, the CIA kidnapped Osama Mustafa Hassan in Italy and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured with electric shocks for more than a year. Guess what? Turns out he wasnt a terrorist at all, as the US alleged.

Folks, let me make this plain and simple. For generations, the United States has been a beacon of light to the rest of the world, and the nation known as the bastion of all that is decent and human. Under Bush, that light has been extinguished, and all the rest of the sees on the other side of the Atlantic ocean is a deep, dark hole, from which all semblance of honor, morality, and the American way has disappeared. Instead of seeing us as the light of the world, we are now seen as despicable, and a greater threat to world peace than even bin Laden. And why shouldnt they see us this way? After all, we are doing those very things that, not long ago, we stood steadfastly against. Shame on this administration, whose moral values are as corrupt as the deeds many of them are being indicted for these days.

Article is here.

what bush has done so has all the presidents done
plunder piladgy set up jauntas and puppet regimes
shaw of IRAN cia PUT him in power
sadam was put in by america
reagen years

vietnam an utter dusgusting digrace of trying to uphold french regime in asia

the neocons neodemos are one and the same for as long as I have lived
53 years
puppets of the elite rich that are evil,pompus and arogant

your own history is a hint

The great lesson of Yorktown in 1781, the final, decisive battle, was that even a great power like Imperial Britain really could not suppress the naturally-grown ambitions and desires of a people thousands of miles away, not without investing at a cost out of all proportion to the benefits, and not without becoming intensely disliked. This is a lesson that America, now grown strong and very arrogant in its strength, has utterly failed to learn

Bergslagstroll · Oct 9, 2005

Then sadly the thing in Italy wasn't the first time the USA goverment promoted "democracy" by promoting torture:

El Masri a German that arrested in Macedonia and then sent to Afganisthan
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999272/site/newsweek/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7591918/

Two Swedish immigrant that was with american help deported to egypt and tortured:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/17/sweden8620.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/sweden9219_txt.htm

A summary of cases:
http://www.nyuhr.org/docs/Case Annex Final.pdf

Canuck · Oct 10, 2005

Bergslagstroll said:
Then sadly the thing in Italy wasn't the first time the USA goverment promoted "democracy" by promoting torture:

El Masri a German that arrested in Macedonia and then sent to Afganisthan
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999272/site/newsweek/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7591918/

Two Swedish immigrant that was with american help deported to egypt and tortured:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/17/sweden8620.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/sweden9219_txt.htm

A summary of cases:
http://www.nyuhr.org/docs/Case Annex Final.pdf

neocon NAZIS OWN AMERICA's sorry ass
Untill the american people wake up ,and lets freedom ring once again.
they will be held accountable,and the terrorists will send more bombs to donwtown USA.
STOP the WAR CRIMES bring the BOYS home
let them fix the levees and new orleans ,with the money from the war
everything is broken
broken levees ,broken homes
broken teeth,broken bones
everything is broken

Ima Troll · Oct 10, 2005

so Bush is into torture then?

danarhea said:
Just where the hell do we get off kidnapping innocent people, then flying them to other countries, where they are tortured?

In February, 2003, the CIA kidnapped Osama Mustafa Hassan in Italy and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured with electric shocks for more than a year. Guess what? Turns out he wasnt a terrorist at all, as the US alleged.

Folks, let me make this plain and simple. For generations, the United States has been a beacon of light to the rest of the world, and the nation known as the bastion of all that is decent and human. Under Bush, that light has been extinguished, and all the rest of the sees on the other side of the Atlantic ocean is a deep, dark hole, from which all semblance of honor, morality, and the American way has disappeared. Instead of seeing us as the light of the world, we are now seen as despicable, and a greater threat to world peace than even bin Laden. And why shouldnt they see us this way? After all, we are doing those very things that, not long ago, we stood steadfastly against. Shame on this administration, whose moral values are as corrupt as the deeds many of them are being indicted for these days.

Article is here.

Bergslagstroll · Oct 10, 2005

Canuck said:
neocon NAZIS OWN AMERICA's sorry ass
Untill the american people wake up ,and lets freedom ring once again.
they will be held accountable,and the terrorists will send more bombs to donwtown USA.
STOP the WAR CRIMES bring the BOYS home
let them fix the levees and new orleans ,with the money from the war
everything is broken
broken levees ,broken homes
broken teeth,broken bones
everything is broken

Well I don't know if USA is that bad but starting the Iraq wasn't the smartest way to fight terrorism. Also hopefully a mayority of americans think that a more democratic world is a more safe world and that a god start towards that is not sending innocent people to torture. Also hopefully they also get leaders in the next elections that also belives that. Well atleast if you try to be positive about it.

Binary_Digit · Oct 10, 2005

Canuck said:
sadam was put in by america

No he wasn't. Research the history of the Baath party.

Italy - 22 Warrants for CIA Agents

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