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Israel's Lies/Henry Siegman

Vader said:
Is it just me or are the an inordinatly large number of anti-Isreal trolls in this world?
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If you are referring to me, I happen to be Jewish and am supportive of Israel, though, not reflexively so. I posted the Siegman article in an attempt to elicit POVs of his allegations against Israel, which are quite caustic given his own Jewish lineage.
 
I think it's funny when people are putting down Israel for combating people who are openly hostile to it. Because if other countries were in the same situation (save for maybe the British and the Dutch) I think that they would react the same way.
 
Marc39 said:
If you are referring to me, I happen to be Jewish and am supportive of Israel, though, not reflexively so. I posted the Siegman article in an attempt to elicit POVs of his allegations against Israel, which are quite caustic given his own Jewish lineage.
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I wasn't referring to you specifically. I just noticed that whenever Israel retaliates the anti-semetics come out of the woodwork.

Why people find the need to attack Israel for defending its civilian populace is beyond me.
 
Radical Ron said:
I think it's funny when people are putting down Israel for combating people who are openly hostile to it. Because if other countries were in the same situation (save for maybe the British and the Dutch) I think that they would react the same way.
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French and the Dutch.

British would colonize in a heartbeat.
 
Vader said:
I wasn't referring to you specifically. I just noticed that whenever Israel retaliates the anti-semetics come out of the woodwork.

Why people find the need to attack Israel for defending its civilian populace is beyond me.
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Gotta get both them phrases in the same post eh.

If you keep repeating it enough people may eventually believe that they go hand it hand.

I guess the question is are Jews who attack Israeli policies also anti-semetic and do they also seek the destruction of Israel?
 
Marc39 said:
Curious to hear your feedback on this article...

LRB · Henry Siegman: Israel’s Lies
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I think the points about the recent 'war in Gaza' are not 100% accurate. To say conclusively who was responsible for breaking the truce would be impossible imo. Each side always claims their action was in response to a violation from the other side and tracing down the 'first' violation is next to impossible.

Regarding Sharon's 'freezing' of the peace process I would tend to agree with the author. Why seek a peace plan when the world would let him carry on with his empire building and settlement expansion if he gave up Gaza?
 
G-Man said:
I think the points about the recent 'war in Gaza' are not 100% accurate. To say conclusively who was responsible for breaking the truce would be impossible imo. Each side always claims their action was in response to a violation from the other side and tracing down the 'first' violation is next to impossible.

Regarding Sharon's 'freezing' of the peace process I would tend to agree with the author. Why seek a peace plan when the world would let him carry on with his empire building and settlement expansion if he gave up Gaza?
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Hamas is a terrorist group with no credibility. There are not to be trusted. The IDF is a legitimate military force following the orders of a legitimate government.

Hamas is a terrorist group controlled by Iran and Syria. As such, their motives are automatically suspect.

Israel is not the group standing in the way of peace. Israel has tried to make peace; Hamas has been an obsticle and will continue to be an obsticle until its ties to Syria and Iran are broken.
 
Vader said:
Hamas is a terrorist group with no credibility. There are not to be trusted. The IDF is a legitimate military force following the orders of a legitimate government.

Hamas is a terrorist group controlled by Iran and Syria. As such, their motives are automatically suspect.

Israel is not the group standing in the way of peace. Israel has tried to make peace; Hamas has been an obsticle and will continue to be an obsticle until its ties to Syria and Iran are broken.
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Well put my friend, and people still are blind to the fact that Iran and Syria are the ones putting money and weapons in the hands of these fanatics.
 
Radical Ron said:
Well put my friend, and people still are blind to the fact that Iran and Syria are the ones putting money and weapons in the hands of these fanatics.
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The ones who put money and funded this organization from the get-go was Israel and the US. Hamas was a legal subsidiary of the political charity "al-Mujama al-Islami" (The Islamic Compound), founded by Ahmed Yassin. It was registered as an organization in Israel in 1987 with prior funding from Yassin's earlier group "Majd al- Mujahedin" (Pride of the Faithful Warriors). All of this was supported and encouraged by Israel to act as a counterweight to Arafat's PLO. Hamas wasn't outlawed in Israel until 1979 when the PLO was weak and Hamas targeted Israeli soldiers instead of corrupt PLO officials.

And the far right leader in Israel right now that plans on running the show was the one that gave Hamas legitimacy.
 
Degreez said:
The ones who put money and funded this organization from the get-go was Israel and the US. Hamas was a legal subsidiary of the political charity "al-Mujama al-Islami" (The Islamic Compound), founded by Ahmed Yassin. It was registered as an organization in Israel in 1987 with prior funding from Yassin's earlier group "Majd al- Mujahedin" (Pride of the Faithful Warriors). All of this was supported and encouraged by Israel to act as a counterweight to Arafat's PLO. Hamas wasn't outlawed in Israel until 1979 when the PLO was weak and Hamas targeted Israeli soldiers instead of corrupt PLO officials.
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But now that they are attacking Israel, the people should just tolerate it? :confused:

Degreez said:
And the far right leader in Israel right now that plans on running the show was the one that gave Hamas legitimacy.
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Looks to me like he wants to take it away now.
 
Radical Ron said:
But now that they are attacking Israel, the people should just tolerate it? :confused:
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No, but they shouldn't act surprised when they Hamas used Israeli money to purchase Qassam rockets. As long as it disrupted Arafat.

And when Arafat was disposed and Abbas takes control along with Fatah. Israel and the US funds Fatah to counter Hamas' win in the parliamentary elections.

Radical Ron said:
Looks to me like he wants to take it away now.
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He could have squashed Hamas long before they became a real militant threat. Instead Israeli actions fuel Hamas forever.

You think the 9 civilians killed along with Hamas' spiritual leader have families that don't actually seek retribution? It's not like the timing of the assassination was good either, as they were all leaving the mosque after prayer.

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If you're wondering, that's what is left of his wheelchair.
 
Degreez said:
He could have squashed Hamas long before they became a real militant threat. Instead Israeli actions fuel Hamas forever.

You think the 9 civilians killed along with Hamas' spiritual leader have families that don't actually seek retribution? It's not like the timing of the assassination was good either, as they were all leaving the mosque after prayer.
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Do you think that when a Jew dies his or her family does not mourn? What about people like Shalhevet Paz, who was 10 months old and shot by a Palestinian sniper? Does her family not seek retribution?
 
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