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Isolationists & ISIS

Jack Hays said:
That is the ideology of the jihadis. They proclaim it; I merely take them at their word.
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The ideology of the jihadis would be far less appealing if the Yemenis farmer didn't lose his child/parent/sibling to a U.S. airstrike.
 
Jack Hays said:
You should read the entire essay.
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I'm not here to read essays and play guessing games at what other debaters are referencing. If you wish to continue this debate then please provide the specific quote(s).
 
Geoist said:
I'm not here to read essays and play guessing games at what other debaters are referencing. If you wish to continue this debate then please provide the specific quote(s).
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Then be happy in your ignorance. I prefer to discuss with informed posters.
 
PoS said:
LOL You just blew apart your own argument. The reason ISIS exists in the first place is a direct result of interventionism so its the exact opposite of what you just described.
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I'm going to try to clean it up for him. Not sure if this has been tried yet or not. I just now stumbled across this thread. And with you (POS) and Goshin all over it already that is a lot of intellectual firepower on it already.

:)
 
ModerateGOP said:
I think the notion that ISIS exists, regardless of how it came to be, blows apart most if not all isolationist talking points. These people are not killing people because they are occupying their land. In fact, it is most likely the opposite. Think about it. ISIS is most active in the Middle East and North Africa. What countries/nations are directly adjacent to both of these lands? France and Europe!!! ISIS has never said they are killing for this purpose. It seems they have a genuine interest in expansion and with expansions comes territory invasions. What's that??? The complete opposite of isolationism! Yeah that's right.

The motive remains a murky mystery though it seems to be a mixture of Religious paranoia, fundamentalism, doomsdaying, and your basic sprinkle of evil. In fact, ISIS itself probably has the strictest border control on the planet! Especially in Mosul and other areas of Iraq. So as France begins to launch counter strikes against Syria and Iraq as well as countries like Russia joining in. Part of the blame may go to some areas of European Immigration Policy, but it's pretty strict in and of itself. I think it's clear ISIS wants chunks of Europe for itself. It's going to be branching into Italy because that is also close by.

Yet we have silence coming from the anti-war crowd. The man who should be leading their message is Rand Paul, but by failing to take up his father's torch who has sickeningly become a paid Putin Pundit on State Sponsored Russian TV. Rand is sliding down in the polls into non-existence.

Why is Russian TV Backing Ron Paul? - Right Side News
Russian Media Covers Ron Paul In Glory and Praise | Observer
Why Does Ron Paul Keep Defending Putin?

And it's clear he doesn't have any CT-minded Ron Paul fanboys on his side. Heck no one is even saying Rand Paul is being "treated unfairly."

Why Hasn't Rand Paul Inherited His Father's Success? : NPR

With all this "war" going on and cyber-wars too. Shockingly, there is no anti-war candidate among 15 Republicans and three Democrats! Even a socialist named Bernie Sanders says ISIS is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but his view is so twisted by socialist talking points that it's not even worth listening to.

Sanders doubles down: Climate change causes terrorism | TheHill

What we are seeing here is the direct effect terrorism has on everyone when it comes to the forefront of politics and makes nationwide headlines.
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Regarding ISIS/ISIL, your original topic before you got sidetracked onto Putin, Russia, and Rand Paul, the media news reports are that they are displaced Iraqi military with a sprinkling of Al Qaeda within it. So regarding who created them, they are the direct result of the Bush Dynasty, who during each of their terms attacked and devastated Iraq and toppled its strongman leader.

As to how Jihadi John and his additional 3 musketeers got involved all the way from Merry Olde England is anyone's guess. Back in those days only Al Qaeda was funding the radicalization of Islamic young men. One of the 3 was obviously the money man, and this money is either Al Qaeda or some other renegade Saudi or Iranian source.

As what they have become, then are a massed and organized insurgency conquering territory like in some Armageddon movie, only this is real.

There is a strong psychopathic lawless element within them, which has given rise to these televised beheadings and the captured Pakistani pilot who was burned alive.

Their psychopathology accelerated into the bombing of a Russian passenger plane killing all 224 onboard.

Whereas they have now killed a few Americans, Europeans, Asians, and others, it is Russia and Putin who have the greatest score to settle with them now.

What they have accomplished is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.

The Russians won't quit until ISIS/ISIL is completely exterminated.

So ISIS/ISIL is doomed. Not really even worth talking about anymore.

Has nothing at all to do with isolationism.
 
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Goshin said:
ISIS is killing infidels and heretics because that is what the Caliphate exists to do, and they are presenting themselves to the Muslim world as the final Caliphate of the Last Days, challenging all Muslims to join in their Jihad or risk damnation.
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This sounds a lot like Helter Skelter and Charlie Manson in California.
 
iacardsfan said:
ISIS came to be as a result of US foreign policy. They evolved from Al Qaeda, who directly told the west they were attacking them as a result of occupying their lands. I don't see any way this could be clearer.
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Agreed. Correct. GWH Bush was flashing back to WW2 and Adolf. Then he got Adolf confused with Saddam. Then he forgot that Saddam was a US ally against Iran. GHW was just thinking about the oil and wanted an excuse to become a war hero.

The GW Bush came along and in his turn also wanted to be a war hero so he invented the myth of "yellow cake" and used it as propaganda for his own war against Saddam.
 
ModerateGOP said:
But that's not what I'm arguing about. Please pay attention. They never say they exist because of the West or the US Foreign Policy. They just want us gone. No explicit reason is ever really given. There is high evidence it's due to a fundamentalist reading of Sunni Islamic Religious Texts and not anything to do with US Policy, specifically. Though, the fact we exist probably annoys the hell out of them in the first place. Plus do you really think Europe intervenes all that much in middle east affairs? Maybe UK, but not many other countries over there do. I also mentioned this in my OP. Looks like you didn't read it and I just pissed you off.
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Just another wacko Muslim cult.

No different from the late and now dead Usama Bin Laden aka UBL. He was wacko too.

I hope you are paying attention.
 
truthatallcost said:
The hand wringers will attribute all kinds of nobile attributes to Isis, such as the myth that they exist to expel western influence in the Mideast.
Isis are thugs, they rape, pillage, kill their own people. What would an Isis controlled Syria and Iraq look like? A Taliban controlled Afghanistan.
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Well they started out as displaced Iraqi military. Then they mixed-in some Al Quada funding and leadership. That brought with it wacko's and psycho's.

Now that's what we have got.

Don't worry though -- Putin is on it. He will extinguish them.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Just because people say ISIS is there because of failed US policies, does not mean that it is true. You haven't even provided any evidence of this. Neither does it have ANYTHING to do with my OP. I'm not talking about it's origins. I'm talking about present day issues. That's the problem with non-interventionism. They can't get over their central belief system, and they throw hissy fits when people don't want to talk about that issue and ignore present day actions. We aren't and can't be interventionists. Yet you are still arguing for it. Even though we can't change the past lol.
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This is high school argumentation. It is pointless.
 
Riveroaks said:
This is high school argumentation. It is pointless.
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Well the two posts by you which lacked any depth or critical thinking skills seems to suggest otherwise. Otherwise why would you reply to me two times? Obviously, it is not pointless! I'll address the other Russian Praising post in the next one.
 
Riveroaks said:
1. So regarding who created them

2. The Russians won't quit until ISIS/ISIL is completely exterminated. So ISIS/ISIL is doomed. Not really even worth talking about anymore.

3. Has nothing at all to do with isolationism.
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1. Actually my thread was the one which got hijacked by those who wanted to relive past grievances and not address current ones.

2. & 3. Oh you poor, poor, naive poster. Your hypocrisy is pretty clear. Just because it's Russia who in your opinion should be fighting ISIS and is. It doesn't mean it is isolationism for us!
 
ModerateGOP said:
1. Actually my thread was the one which got hijacked by those who wanted to relive past grievances and not address current ones.

2. & 3. Oh you poor, poor, naive poster. Your hypocrisy is pretty clear. Just because it's Russia who in your opinion should be fighting ISIS and is. It doesn't mean it is isolationism for us!
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Well when you have too many different people fighting it becomes a brawl.

And since the Russians have the most revenge to vent and Putin has his nation behind him in full support, he is the best leader for the job at hand.

I like the man. I like the Russians too. They normally don't screw up like American leadership often does.
 
Riveroaks said:
Well when you have too many different people fighting it becomes a brawl.

And since the Russians have the most revenge to vent and Putin has his nation behind him in full support, he is the best leader for the job at hand.

I like the man. I like the Russians too. They normally don't screw up like American leadership often does.
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OK. I think you need to stop watching the Russian State Sponsored Propaganda Channels on YouTube and RT. I'm not sure if you are posting just to see your own words on the internet, because I'm pretty sure many different people fighting, in your words, a brawl. Isn't isolationism, by any definition!
 
ModerateGOP said:
OK. I think you need to stop watching the Russian State Sponsored Propaganda Channels on YouTube and RT. I'm not sure if you are posting just to see your own words on the internet, because I'm pretty sure many different people fighting, in your words, a brawl. Isn't isolationism, by any definition!
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You are afraid to like Russians then ??

I suspect it is you who are brainwashed.

I have worked with many Russians over the course of my career in international business and I have found them to be very rational and ethical.
 
Riveroaks said:
You are afraid to like Russians then ??

I suspect it is you who are brainwashed.

I have worked with many Russians over the course of my career in international business and I have found them to be very rational and ethical.
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Uh who cares? This thread is about isolationism.
 
Riveroaks said:
Oh so you are the thread monitor now ???

Does that come with a pay cheque or do you have to work for tips ???
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It's clear you don't want to talk about the thread topic anymore.

If you care about isolationism you could be spending more time trying to defend it in the aftermath of ISIS. Yet you devoted the last few posts to mindless dribble. So guess you can't.

Thanks for proving my point for me. Now quit trolling this tread or get back to the topic at hand. I'll start you off with a question: What is the isolationist response to ISIS after California?
 
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