Isnt it time would be socialist face facts

[Logical1]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

 

[Captain Adverse]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

Socialism, and it's extreme in Communism, is based on the idea that people are essentially good, and can be taught to be unselfish and self-sacrificing.

This is where we get the foundation of socialist idealism, i.e. "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

Of course we are not "factually" equal. Some people are stronger, others are weaker. Some people are faster, others are slower. Some are smarter, others are dumber. But one thing remains the same, that is regardless of their capabilities each person is still an individual, NOT a "part" in some social machine.

That means each person has their own needs, wants, and goals. They cannot fit like identical cogs in a machine.

Let's use making shoes for example. There will be some who can make 20 shoes in one hour, others who might be able to make ten, and other's who literally have the mental or physical capacity to only make five. Under socialism, the person who only makes five shoes still deserves the same proportion of wages, food, clothing, etc., as the person who makes 20 shoes in the same time.

Now under socialism, the two extremes (20 shoes/ 5 shoes) are still expected to make as many shoes as they can for the good of society as a whole. "From each according to their abilities." Meanwhile, they are also only going to be paid the same regardless of their output. "To each according to their need."

Well, as has been shown over and over historically, what happens once the person who can make 20 shoes in an hour realizes they are busting butt for the same return as someone only producing 5 shoes an hour? They start making fewer shoes an hour, as few as they think they can get away with.

The leaders of a socialist state know this will occur. To combat it they will impose controls and penalties over those whose work product does not meet the higher expectations of "from each according to their ability." Moreover, they will also doubt the lack of capability of those who only make 5 shoes per hour; assuming that they aren't really doing their best. They will take similar measures to improve their production.

Meanwhile, people will learn to mask their capabilities, teaching their children to do this as well because it will not profit them to always "do their very best." To combat this, the State will tightly control education, teaching children to become good little automatons, and by the way to spy on their families to make sure they are good citizens too.

Always there will be the lure of positions in leadership, for those identified as having the best abilities to lead the State. Thus a social hierarchy will emerge, with leaders, enforcers, and proles all working together under the "from each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs." Leaders need the most, due to the pressures of their important roles. Enforcers need the next most, due to the importance of their roles. Proles need the least, due to their basic role in society.

This is the foundation of a slave State.

 

[Logical1]

Socialism, and it's extreme in Communism, is based on the idea that people are essentially good, and can be taught to be unselfish and self-sacrificing.

This is where we get the foundation of socialist idealism, i.e. "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

Of course we are not "factually" equal. Some people are stronger, others are weaker. Some people are faster, others are slower. Some are smarter, others are dumber. But one thing remains the same, that is regardless of their capabilities each person is still an individual, NOT a "part" in some social machine.

That means each person has their own needs, wants, and goals. They cannot fit like cogs in a machine.

Let's use making shoes for example. There will be some who can make 20 shoes in one hour, others who might be able to make ten, and other's who literally have the mental or physical capacity to only make five. Under socialism, the person who only makes five shoes still deserves the same proportion of wages, food, clothing, etc., as the person who makes 20 shoes in the same time.

Now under socialism, the two extremes are expected to make as many shoes as they can for the good of society as a whole. "From each according to their abilities." Meanwhile, they are also only going to be paid the same regardless of their output. "To each according to their need."

Well, as has been shown over and over historically, what happens once the person who can make 20 shoes in an hour realizes they are busting butt for the same return as someone only producing 5 shoes an hour? They start making fewer shoes an hour, as few as they think they can get away with.

The leaders of a socialist state know this will occur. To combat it they will impose controls and penalties over those whose work product does not meet the higher expectations of "from each according to their ability." Moreover, they will also doubt the lack of capability of those who only make 5 shoes per hour, assuming they aren't doing their best. They will take similar measures to improve their production.

Meanwhile, people will learn to mask their capabilities, teaching their children to do this as well because it will not profit them to always "do their very best." To combat this, the State will tightly control education, teaching children to become good little automatons, and by the way to spy on their families to make sure they are good citizens too.

Always there will be the lure of positions in leadership, for those identified as having the best abilities to lead the State. Thus a social hierarchy will emerge, with leaders, enforcers, and proles all working together under the "from each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs." Leaders need the most, due to the pressures of their important roles. Enforcers need the next most, due to the importance of their roles. Proles need the least, due to their basic role in society.

This is the foundation of a slave State.

Well stated and explained.

 

[TobyOne]

Money post. :shoot:applaud:rock:beer::beer:

Socialism ignores basic behavior and blocks the natural interplay of people making the best choices for themselves. Eventually, the people can't be kept in line and authoritarianism rises. Group Think, suppression of rights , debasement of the individuals and eventual failure ensues.

Socialism, and it's extreme in Communism, is based on the idea that people are essentially good, and can be taught to be unselfish and self-sacrificing.

This is where we get the foundation of socialist idealism, i.e. "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

Of course we are not "factually" equal. Some people are stronger, others are weaker. Some people are faster, others are slower. Some are smarter, others are dumber. But one thing remains the same, that is regardless of their capabilities each person is still an individual, NOT a "part" in some social machine.

That means each person has their own needs, wants, and goals. They cannot fit like identical cogs in a machine.

Let's use making shoes for example. There will be some who can make 20 shoes in one hour, others who might be able to make ten, and other's who literally have the mental or physical capacity to only make five. Under socialism, the person who only makes five shoes still deserves the same proportion of wages, food, clothing, etc., as the person who makes 20 shoes in the same time.

Now under socialism, the two extremes (20 shoes/ 5 shoes) are still expected to make as many shoes as they can for the good of society as a whole. "From each according to their abilities." Meanwhile, they are also only going to be paid the same regardless of their output. "To each according to their need."

Well, as has been shown over and over historically, what happens once the person who can make 20 shoes in an hour realizes they are busting butt for the same return as someone only producing 5 shoes an hour? They start making fewer shoes an hour, as few as they think they can get away with.

The leaders of a socialist state know this will occur. To combat it they will impose controls and penalties over those whose work product does not meet the higher expectations of "from each according to their ability." Moreover, they will also doubt the lack of capability of those who only make 5 shoes per hour; assuming that they aren't really doing their best. They will take similar measures to improve their production.

Meanwhile, people will learn to mask their capabilities, teaching their children to do this as well because it will not profit them to always "do their very best." To combat this, the State will tightly control education, teaching children to become good little automatons, and by the way to spy on their families to make sure they are good citizens too.

Always there will be the lure of positions in leadership, for those identified as having the best abilities to lead the State. Thus a social hierarchy will emerge, with leaders, enforcers, and proles all working together under the "from each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs." Leaders need the most, due to the pressures of their important roles. Enforcers need the next most, due to the importance of their roles. Proles need the least, due to their basic role in society.

This is the foundation of a slave State.

 

[Moonglow]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

I just happen to notice how strong and independent capitalism is when a pandemic hits town....Enjoy your sociliam in the govt. handouts.

 

[Moderate Right]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

The left are under the delusion that they can control socialism and make it Democratic socialism.

 

[Moonglow]

Socialism, and it's extreme in Communism, is based on the idea that people are essentially good, and can be taught to be unselfish and self-sacrificing.

This is where we get the foundation of socialist idealism, i.e. "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

Of course we are not "factually" equal. Some people are stronger, others are weaker. Some people are faster, others are slower. Some are smarter, others are dumber. But one thing remains the same, that is regardless of their capabilities each person is still an individual, NOT a "part" in some social machine.

That means each person has their own needs, wants, and goals. They cannot fit like identical cogs in a machine.

Let's use making shoes for example. There will be some who can make 20 shoes in one hour, others who might be able to make ten, and other's who literally have the mental or physical capacity to only make five. Under socialism, the person who only makes five shoes still deserves the same proportion of wages, food, clothing, etc., as the person who makes 20 shoes in the same time.

Now under socialism, the two extremes (20 shoes/ 5 shoes) are still expected to make as many shoes as they can for the good of society as a whole. "From each according to their abilities." Meanwhile, they are also only going to be paid the same regardless of their output. "To each according to their need."

Well, as has been shown over and over historically, what happens once the person who can make 20 shoes in an hour realizes they are busting butt for the same return as someone only producing 5 shoes an hour? They start making fewer shoes an hour, as few as they think they can get away with.

The leaders of a socialist state know this will occur. To combat it they will impose controls and penalties over those whose work product does not meet the higher expectations of "from each according to their ability." Moreover, they will also doubt the lack of capability of those who only make 5 shoes per hour; assuming that they aren't really doing their best. They will take similar measures to improve their production.

Meanwhile, people will learn to mask their capabilities, teaching their children to do this as well because it will not profit them to always "do their very best." To combat this, the State will tightly control education, teaching children to become good little automatons, and by the way to spy on their families to make sure they are good citizens too.

Always there will be the lure of positions in leadership, for those identified as having the best abilities to lead the State. Thus a social hierarchy will emerge, with leaders, enforcers, and proles all working together under the "from each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs." Leaders need the most, due to the pressures of their important roles. Enforcers need the next most, due to the importance of their roles. Proles need the least, due to their basic role in society.

This is the foundation of a slave State.

Yes, the slaves in the US found that out the hard way because capitalism uses labor and prefers not to pay for it and it is still occurring in the USA what with slave labor from inmates.

 

[Moonglow]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

How many folks did the Mongols kill? The Romans? The Americans in settling the USA?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yes, the slaves in the US found that out the hard way because capitalism uses labor and prefers not to pay for it and it is still occurring in the USA what with slave labor from inmates.

How many folks did the Mongols kill? The Romans? The Americans in settling the USA?

Two fallacious deflections from the point being discussed in the OP. :roll:

This is a typical response from many on the Left, i.e. ignore the question/issue by trying to shift discussion to an ideological point they want to push.

If you think your issues are worth a discussion, start a thread on them. Meanwhile, I suggest we stay on point, eh? :coffeepap:

 

[Helix]

Isnt it time would be socialist face facts

which socialist? if you meant socialists in general, you need to pluralize the word with an s and learn what socialism actually is.

 

[bongsaway]

The left are under the delusion that they can control socialism and make it Democratic socialism.

The right is under the illusion democrats want socialism. Seems to me the type of 'socialism' nordic countries use works very well and year after year they are the happiest countries on earth while being some of the coldest. How is that possible?

Capitalism begets greed. Nordic countries put their people first and are run responsibly not greedily.

 

[Craig234]

Talk more about tulips, the most important issue in our country!

 

[Moonglow]

Two fallacious deflections from the point being discussed in the OP. :roll:

This is a typical response from many on the Left, i.e. ignore the question/issue by trying to shift discussion to an ideological point they want to push.

If you think your issues are worth a discussion, start a thread on them. Meanwhile, I suggest we stay on point, eh? :coffeepap:

If you can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. The point was made and a counterpoint was made, sorry you can't stand the fact that every nation has killed people to become established and any form of economic system used has abused and used other humans to build their societies...Now piss off..

 

[Moderate Right]

The right is under the illusion democrats want socialism. Seems to me the type of 'socialism' nordic countries use works very well and year after year they are the happiest countries on earth while being some of the coldest. How is that possible?

Capitalism begets greed. Nordic countries put their people first and are run responsibly not greedily.

Bernie calls himself a socialist and compliments Cuba on their socialism.

 

[Captain Adverse]

If you can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. The point was made and a counterpoint was made, sorry you can't stand the fact that every nation has killed people to become established and any form of economic system used has abused and used other humans to build their societies...Now piss off..

From this response it appears that you are projecting your own faults onto others. :shrug:

But you do make one good suggestion... Tagline time. :coffeepap:

 

[Moonglow]

Bernie calls himself a socialist and compliments Cuba on their socialism.

He complimented a couple of programs in the communist country, so what?

 

[Moonglow]

From this response it appears that you are projecting your own faults onto others. :shrug:

But you do make one good suggestion... Tagline time. :coffeepap:

It is not my fault you can't control the narrative.

 

[bongsaway]

Bernie calls himself a socialist and compliments Cuba on their socialism.

And so that means what? Bernie is no longer in the race. So what's your point? There actually can be some good things even in a dictatorship, doesn't mean america is going to become a dictatorship even though this president is doing his best to turn it into an autocracy. Saddam with all his faults didn't let people like bin laden into his country. Oh wait, I forgot, W told us saddam and bin laden were working together.

I think the current rendition of the gop all have become delusional or they are just flat out lying to accomplish their own personal goals.

 

[Drowning Man]

This is where we get the foundation of socialist idealism, i.e. "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

Just a little side note, but this is almost word for word taken from the Bible. Acts 4:32–35: 32

Of course we are not "factually" equal. Some people are stronger, others are weaker. Some people are faster, others are slower. Some are smarter, others are dumber. But one thing remains the same, that is regardless of their capabilities each person is still an individual, NOT a "part" in some social machine.

Except when corporations are in trouble, of course. Then the government regularly needs to bail them out. At least, in the US.

Now under socialism, the two extremes (20 shoes/ 5 shoes) are still expected to make as many shoes as they can for the good of society as a whole. "From each according to their abilities." Meanwhile, they are also only going to be paid the same regardless of their output. "To each according to their need."

Well, as has been shown over and over historically, what happens once the person who can make 20 shoes in an hour realizes they are busting butt for the same return as someone only producing 5 shoes an hour? They start making fewer shoes an hour, as few as they think they can get away with.

What you’re really talking about here is Communism rather than Socialism. Almost all first world nations are more socialist than the US, yet competition remains alive and well. People in England, Canada, Spain, Italy, etc....all are somehow able to keep their drive to improve themselves and remain productive.

The leaders of a socialist state know this will occur. To combat it they will impose controls and penalties over those whose work product does not meet the higher expectations of "from each according to their ability." Moreover, they will also doubt the lack of capability of those who only make 5 shoes per hour; assuming that they aren't really doing their best. They will take similar measures to improve their production.

Again, socialism != communism. The US uses some socialist mechanisms — welfare, Medicaid, social security, etc. The US does not resort to these measures, nor do other first world nations that are more socialistic than the US.

And more nonsense that I really don’t need to make the same replies to.

 

[Craig234]

The right is under the illusion democrats want socialism. Seems to me the type of 'socialism' nordic countries use works very well and year after year they are the happiest countries on earth while being some of the coldest. How is that possible?

Capitalism begets greed. Nordic countries put their people first and are run responsibly not greedily.

Greed is not the issue. Greed is an emotion. The harm of a system isn't that it causes greed, it's that it distributes power in a way that causes exploitation.

Take for example, the same company with and without a union. One doesn't create 'greed'; each simply distributes power differently, which distributes wealth differently.

But socialism and capitalism aren't even words that describe the issues. We might as well say let's have a discussion of economics between the tulipism and the chocolateism. Very useful!

No one wants "socialism". And "capitalism" is a vague word. Discuss the actual issues. Things like "unions" and specific policies. What does the Nordic country do exactly? Not just vague things like 'put their people first' and 'not greedily'.

 

[jamesbyoung]

We seem to unfortunately have a percentage of people in this country that thinks socialism would be a good thing. Isnt it time to face facts?

1) No country has ever become prosperous on full time socialism.

2) In the last century socialism killed approx 100,000,000 people.

3) In Cuba people are driving '58 Chevys yet. And in Venezuela people are eating dogs and cats.

4) And where it fails is that Huge government takes everything in taxes. When a country switches to socialism to begin with, you have people that do work and those that dont. When people that do work have everything taken from them, and see that those that dont work gets the money from those that do work, SOON NO ONE WANTS TO WORK. That when you learn to like the taste of dog meat!!!! Oh, and then the economy collapses like it did in Venezuela.

Grow up. The GOP is now a Big Government Progressive Party, logical1. That will not change.

 

[Drowning Man]

Grow up. The GOP is now a Big Government Progressive Party, logical1. That will not change.

Absolutely. The military is a very socialistic institution.

 

[Moderate Right]

He complimented a couple of programs in the communist country, so what?

Ummmmmmm, haven't your forgot that you hyperventilate when Trump compliments Russia, NK, China, or whoever on something?

 

[Moderate Right]

And so that means what? Bernie is no longer in the race. So what's your point? There actually can be some good things even in a dictatorship, doesn't mean america is going to become a dictatorship even though this president is doing his best to turn it into an autocracy. Saddam with all his faults didn't let people like bin laden into his country. Oh wait, I forgot, W told us saddam and bin laden were working together.

I think the current rendition of the gop all have become delusional or they are just flat out lying to accomplish their own personal goals.

Ummmmmmm, haven't your forgot that you hyperventilate when Trump compliments Russia, NK, China, or whoever on something?

 

[Moonglow]

Ummmmmmm, haven't your forgot that you hyperventilate when Trump compliments Russia, NK, China, or whoever on something?

I have yet to hyperventilate except during an orgasm and I know you have never been around those occurrences. Russia, NK, China, or whoever laugh at the US when a clown car shows up with American politicians and their plastic fantastic imperialism show...Hell, the US can't even produce enough of its own medical supplies...