Dude, evidence has been handed to you on a plate...yet you seem to be unable to take a bite.
In this thread:
FreedomFromAll ask for information...I gave him a starting point.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/114163-ows-against-capitalism-14.html#post1060021054
Oh, my...YOU came in on the discussion and I responded with FOUR...count them...4...links.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/114163-ows-against-capitalism-17.html#post1060022833
There's more in this thread, but I think it's pretty clear that you have a problem. I'm not sure what it is...whether you are trolling, whether you have a retention issue or if you are a drive-by poster. In any case, spare me your whining about not being provided with information.
Now...you have a choice: Do some research...or don't. But I, also, have a choice: Play your stupid little games...or don't. I chose: don't.
You said he claimed to be in control? He claimed that it was a LEADERLESS movement.One can never research enough. It is interesting that an interview with Kalle Lasn on 10/12/2011 produced an outline of what Catawba and TheDemSocialist are asserting. Read the entire interview notice how Kalle Lasn seems to believe that he is in control.
Hahaha it was never a lie that occupy LA and other started as soon as OWS... That was always the full story...Also the story goes that OWS was so successful in New York that is spread to other cities. Well that is a bold face lie. In reality the plan all along was to start protests in multiple cities at the same time. These protests are far from organic. They are well organized and were planned well in advance by anti-globalization activists not just adbusters alone. More on who those people are latter when I get them itemized in proper order.
It didnt grow organically? People are being forced to go?Here is a article from 9/15/11 showing that it was planned ahead of time that multiple cities would have protests. The propaganda that asserts that OWS was successful and grew organically is a lie. And the useful idiots fell for it, no surprise there.
So sense someone met a greek anarchist at school that makes the General Assemblies all anarchist ran?BTW TheDemSocialist you should read this link: David Graeber: On Playing By The Rules
It is the information that you requested about the OWS anarchists that control the General Assemblies.
So let me get this straight from all this "proof".And it should be noted that occupywallstreet.org is owned by Kalle Lasn Now isnt that just a bit too much proof just how much Kalle Lasn is manipulating all of you useful idiots?
Why do you suppose the GOP is blocking HR 1489 to once again establish a firewall between investment banking and commercial banking?
After we have recovered from the Bush Recession, we will have to let the Bush tax cuts expire for everyone. And we need to look at adding back some of the progressiveness that has been cut from our tax rates to prevent the concentration of wealth at the top that is killing our consumer based economy and the middle class.
Companies already are moving operations overseas, and we give them tax breaks for doing so. Why?
It's hilarious that the two of you are claiming that if we don't keep rewarding outsourcing, corps will outsource MORE :cuckoo:
Dude, evidence has been handed to you on a plate...yet you seem to be unable to take a bite.
In this thread:
FreedomFromAll ask for information...I gave him a starting point.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/114163-ows-against-capitalism-14.html#post1060021054
Oh, my...YOU came in on the discussion and I responded with FOUR...count them...4...links.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/114163-ows-against-capitalism-17.html#post1060022833
There's more in this thread, but I think it's pretty clear that you have a problem. I'm not sure what it is...whether you are trolling, whether you have a retention issue or if you are a drive-by poster. In any case, spare me your whining about not being provided with information.
Now...you have a choice: Do some research...or don't. But I, also, have a choice: Play your stupid little games...or don't. I chose: don't.
One can never research enough. It is interesting that an interview with Kalle Lasn on 10/12/2011 produced an outline of what Catawba and TheDemSocialist are asserting. Read the entire interview notice how Kalle Lasn seems to believe that he is in control. Also the story goes that OWS was so successful in New York that is spread to other cities. Well that is a bold face lie. In reality the plan all along was to start protests in multiple cities at the same time. These protests are far from organic. They are well organized and were planned well in advance by anti-globalization activists not just adbusters alone. More on who those people are latter when I get them itemized in proper order.
Here is a article from 9/15/11 showing that it was planned ahead of time that multiple cities would have protests. The propaganda that asserts that OWS was successful and grew organically is a lie. And the useful idiots fell for it, no surprise there.
BTW TheDemSocialist you should read this link: David Graeber: On Playing By The Rules
It is the information that you requested about the OWS anarchists that control the General Assemblies.
And it should be noted that occupywallstreet.org is owned by Kalle Lasn Now isnt that just a bit too much proof just how much Kalle Lasn is manipulating all of you useful idiots?
How does this prove any of your points?
This just proves that he sent out some emails, wrote a book about corporate influence in the US, and started a hashtag which i did state.
All you['ve shown is that they have been involved in the movement. You've shown nothing that supports your contention that they are controlling or manipulating the movement
Ohhhhh...so if we just simply significantly changed our health care industry, educational system, and election system they'd be happy. Wow, how amazingly simple.
Then why dont you provide those links? If they are out there and you know what they are and where they are they should be very very easy to provide......I have been very clear that the links I've provided are not all there is on the subject. I've been encouraging all to actually do some research. A couple of members have done so...though one of them didn't understand what was written in the link he provided.
Lazy? We are lazy? We are asking you for these mysterious links that are out on the interwebs. We ask you to provide them. You provide i guess only "some of these links" (which these links proved literally nothing). Then you come back and say, "oh well they are out there you guys are just lazy.".The two of you, however, have shown your laziness and your inability to comprehend anything that doesn't fit your mindset.
From the whole start of this thread we have said yes they are involved. You were the one going around saying they are some crazy radicals who are manipulating them, and calling them the leaders of the movement...But, let me ask you a question: Does the following indicate that Lasn and White have no involvement or influence in OWS activities?
No it doesnt prove this at all. It proves they called for a movement back in like July and made a poster and a hashtag for twitter...Or does it indicate direct action on their parts to control and manipulate those activities?
""Lasn and White quickly hammered out a post-Zuccotti plan. White would draft a new memorandum, suggesting that Phase I—signs, meetings, camps, marches—was now over. Phase II would involve a swarming strategy of “surprise attacks against business as usual,” with the potential to be “more intense and visceral, depending on how the Bloombergs of the world react.” White could hear the excitement in Lasn’s voice. Even as Lasn vented about the morning’s counterrevolution, he was doing what he could not to splash."
Kalle Lasn and Micah White, the Creators of Occupy Wall Street : The New Yorker
I have been very clear that the links I've provided are not all there is on the subject. I've been encouraging all to actually do some research. A couple of members have done so...though one of them didn't understand what was written in the link he provided.
The two of you, however, have shown your laziness and your inability to comprehend anything that doesn't fit your mindset.
But, let me ask you a question: Does the following indicate that Lasn and White have no involvement or influence in OWS activities? Or does it indicate direct action on their parts to control and manipulate those activities?
""Lasn and White quickly hammered out a post-Zuccotti plan. White would draft a new memorandum, suggesting that Phase I—signs, meetings, camps, marches—was now over. Phase II would involve a swarming strategy of “surprise attacks against business as usual,” with the potential to be “more intense and visceral, depending on how the Bloombergs of the world react.” White could hear the excitement in Lasn’s voice. Even as Lasn vented about the morning’s counterrevolution, he was doing what he could not to splash."
Kalle Lasn and Micah White, the Creators of Occupy Wall Street : The New Yorker
Then why dont you provide those links? If they are out there and you know what they are and where they are they should be very very easy to provide......
I provided links...others have provided links...in this very thread.
Lazy? We are lazy? We are asking you for these mysterious links that are out on the interwebs. We ask you to provide them. You provide i guess only "some of these links" (which these links proved literally nothing). Then you come back and say, "oh well they are out there you guys are just lazy.".
I don't believe in doing all the work. I've given enough information to substantiate my opinion. If it's not enough for you...and if you have sufficient interest...you'll do your own work.
From the whole start of this thread we have said yes they are involved. You were the one going around saying they are some crazy radicals who are manipulating them, and calling them the leaders of the movement...
They ARE crazy radicals. They ARE manipulating the useful idiots. They are not the leaders...OWS has no leaders.
No it doesnt prove this at all. It proves they called for a movement back in like July and made a poster and a hashtag for twitter...
Did you even READ the quote I gave you???
Yea and your links proved nothing! Just furthered and agreed with our point.I provided links...others have provided links...in this very thread.
Your not doing any work! Your making accusations then when we ask for a source or proof you just call us lazy.I don't believe in doing all the work.
If you mean 4 links that provided no information other than to agree with what i have stated earlier...I've given enough information to substantiate my opinion.
Yep:roll:If it's not enough for you...and if you have sufficient interest...you'll do your own work.
People that want the Glass Stegal Act back and to get corporate money out of politics are radicals?They ARE crazy radicals.
How? im still waiting on the source or link or proof of this.. Oh yea "im lazy" and you dont like to "do all the work"... Making accusations but you hate providing evidence for this..They ARE manipulating the useful idiots.
Then why did you claim they were?They are not the leaders...OWS has no leaders.
Yes i did.Did you even READ the quote I gave you???
If you have any actual evidence that shows that the people and orgs you named are controlling or manipulating OWS, the post it. Your failure to do so proves you're full of crap, and you're trying to hide your fail behind whines of laziness.
If you have any actual evidence that shows that the people and orgs you named are controlling or manipulating OWS, then post it. Stop being so lazy by asking others to do your homework for you
Again, you have not posted any evidence that OWS is obeying the commands of Lasn and White. If you have any actual evidence that shows that the people and orgs you named are controlling or manipulating OWS, then post it.
You see...this is why I suggest you do your own research. I've done my homework...I've given actual evidence that Lasn and White are actively controlling and manipulating the useful idiots in this very thread. And yet, you ignore the information provided and repeat your whining about no evidence...
Jeez...I don't know why I bother. I've already hashed this out with another member in this thread about two hundred posts ago...and you want to do it all over.
Forget it.
You see...this is why I suggest you do your own research. I've done my homework...I've given actual evidence that Lasn and White are actively controlling and manipulating the useful idiots in this very thread. And yet, you ignore the information provided and repeat your whining about no evidence...
Jeez...I don't know why I bother. I've already hashed this out with another member in this thread about two hundred posts ago...and you want to do it all over.
Forget it.
Ohhhhh...so if we just simply significantly changed our health care industry, educational system, and election system they'd be happy. Wow, how amazingly simple.
the thing is you have provided no evidence. We claimed from post 1 that these men have been involved in the movement and called for it in the summer via a poster and hashtag. You then claim no they are radicals manipulating the movement and are the leaders. We asked you to provide evidence. You provided 4 or 5 links that agreed with us and you claimed this proves your point. It actually didnt. It proved that they called for the movement via a hashtag and poster in the summer and that they said the movement was leaderless...
Now you are back to "you guys do your own research, its out there."
We ask you to provide it for us..
You say, "no your lazy"..
Are you incompetent?
Nope. You ARE lazy. And you are unable to comprehend what is placed before your very eyes.
I gave you links over two hundred posts ago...and again recently...and all you got out of it was "hashtags and a poster".
Now you are just using excuses like conspiracy theorists... We comprehended it fine. You didnt. You believed it was something it was not.Nope. You ARE lazy. And you are unable to comprehend what is placed before your very eyes.
Naa that wasnt me 200 posts ago...I gave you links over two hundred posts ago...and again recently...and all you got out of it was "hashtags and a poster".
The quote you posted does not support your claim that there was a plan to spread OWS to multiple cities or that the people you named organized the spread of OWS to multiple cities.
Again, the info you post does not support your abdurd claims. The fact that Lasn registered a website does not show that he is orchestrating the movement. All it shows is that he registered a website.
#OCCUPYWALLSTREET update from Adbusters
Posted 4 months ago on Aug. 12, 2011, 11:52 a.m. EST by LupeFiascoConcert
Occupy Wall Street | September 17th | #OCCUPYWALLSTREET | Adbusters Culturejammer Headquarters
#OCCUPYWALLSTREET Update | Adbusters Culturejammer Headquarters
Hey you rebels, radicals and utopian dreamers out there,
We are living through a rare crisis and moment of opportunity. Western industrialized nations are now being masticated by the financial monster they themselves created. This is triggering a mood that alternates between angry denial and sudden panic. It looks like something is about to break, opening the space for a necessary transformation and a total rethink of global economic affairs. Events are playing perfectly into our September 17 occupation of Wall Street.
So … can we on the left learn some new tricks? Can we head off to lower Manhattan with a fresh mindset and a powerful new demand?
Strategically speaking, there is a very real danger that if we naively put our cards on the table and rally around the "overthrow of capitalism" or some equally outworn utopian slogan, then our Tahrir moment will quickly fizzle into another inconsequential ultra-lefty spectacle soon forgotten. But if we have the cunning to come up with a deceptively simple Trojan Horse demand … something profound, yet so specific and doable that it is impossible for President Obama to ignore … something that spotlights Wall Street's financial capture of the US political system and confronts it with a pragmatic solution … like the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act … or a 1% tax on financial transactions … or an independent investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice into the corporate corruption of our representatives in Washington … or another equally creative but downright practical demand that will emerge from the people's assemblies held during the occupation … and if we then put our asses on the line, screw up our courage and hang in there day after day, week after week, until a large swath of Americans start rooting for us and President Obama is forced to respond … then we just might have a crack at creating a decisive moment of truth for America, a first concrete step towards achieving the radical changes we all dream about unencumbered by commitments to existing power structures.
So, let's learn the strategic lessons of Tahrir (nonviolence), Syntagma (tenacity), Puerta del Sol (people's assemblies) and lay aside adherence to political parties and worn-out lefty dogmas. On September 17, let's sow the seeds of a new culture of resistance in America that fires up a permanent democratic awakening.
See you on Wall St. Sept 17. Bring Tent.
for the wild, Culture Jammers HQ Aug. 12, 2011 News Archive | OccupyWallSt.org
Culture Jammers Headquarters and tactical briefings? By now it should be obvious that we are not being fooled. What you do not seem to understand is that you are not OWS you are not the Occupy movement you are not their leader your opinion about who you believe them to be means nothing according to OWS.Our movement is living through an existential, make-or-break moment.
This is a tactical way of looking at it:
When Tunisia rose up, Ben Ali scoffed … when young people occupied Tahrir Square, Mubarak resorted to paternalism and then mob violence … in Syria, Assad's troops fire daily into the crowds. And on Tuesday, a military style assault on Zuccotti Park – news blackouts, tear gas, closed airspace, an LRAD "sound cannon" – was carried out in the dead of night to take out our movement's spiritual home.
For many weeks we had a kind of magic going for us … we held the high ground … we stuck doggedly to our Gandhian ways and blindsided the cynical world with our optimism, our camaraderie, our nonviolence, our determination to forge a different kind of future. With nothing more than twinkling fingers, mic checks, mutual respect, and hope for the future, we sparked a global democracy moment the likes of which the world had not seen since 1968.
But New York's billionaire Mayor decided to snuff us out. We wanted a Tahrir Moment, an American Spring, and he attacked us in the middle of the night while we slept. These kinds of attacks on peaceful protestors did not work in Tunisia, not in Egypt, they are not working in Syria right now, and – wake up Bloomberg & Co! – they are not going to work in America either.
This assault has stiffened our resolve. Now begins the second, visceral, canny, militant phase of our nonviolent march to real democracy. We regroup, lick our wounds and begin our counterattack as early as tomorrow.
We will turn this winter into a training ground for precision disruptions – flashmobs, stink bombs, edgy theatrics – against the megacorps and the unrepentant 1%, a festival of resistance in the snow with, or without, an encampment that'll lay the tactical foundation for our Spring Offensive.
The bottom line is this … you cannot attack your young and get away with it!
for the wild,
Culture Jammers HQ TACTICAL BRIEFING #19 | Adbusters Culturejammer Headquarters
SPEAK WITH US, NOT FOR US.
[.....]
We stand in solidarity. We are Occupy Wall Street. Statement of Autonomy | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
This seems like direct involvement...
Your too much lmao your talking to the wrong person. Lasn and white? When did I even mention White? Talking about strawman :roll:No one is disputing "direct involvement" Your constant reference to that is nothing but a straw man erected to hide the embarrassing fact that you can't back up your absurd accusations
I'll repeat: We're still waiting for you to post evidence that Lasn and White are controlling the OWS. Your claims are nonsense, as are your accusations.
Your too much lmao your talking to the wrong person. Lasn and white? When did I even mention White? Talking about strawman :roll:.
At least now you admit that Lasn is directly involved in OWS instead of just a person that spread an idea.
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