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Is the Holy Spirit an "impersonal force" or is He a person?

The Baron

The Baron

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All mainline Christian denominations believe the Holy Spirit is God. Co-equal with the Father and Son completing the Holy Trinity.

Jehovah Witnesses--for reason yet to be explained--believe the Holy Spirit is simply God’s “active force”--like electricity--and that He is not a person.

As such, this tread will demonstrate that the Holy Spirit really is a person which would be an extremely easy thing to do using Scriptures from the Bible.

However, Jehovah Witnesses do not recognize any Bible other than their own, heavily and incorrectly edited, New World Translation Bible. For example, note the differences in Genesis 1:2 between the New World Translation and the New American Standard Bible, which is regarded as the most accurate and literal, modern-English, word-for-word translation available.

Genesis 1:2 New World Translation
Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters

Genesis 1:2 New American Standard
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the [d]surface of the waters.

Now, since many of you may be wondering which translation is correct, it is easy to check using an Interlinear Bible which will show you. As such, you can find a link right here.

Now since JWs only use New World Translation, I will show that he Holy Spirit is, indeed, a person using only the New World Translation…God always leaves Himself a remnant.

And please note that since the Holy Spirit has been “downgraded” by JWs, you will note that the New World Translation will always be referred to in lower-case letters (see above).

Also, as you read though each of the following verses, please ask yourself, “Is this a characteristic of a person or of electricity”? And as you ask yourself this question the answer will be crystal clear.

Now off we go!

John 14: 26
But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Electricity may be “helpful” but only a person can be a “helper”. Also, electricity cannot teach you anything (except not to touch electricity). People teach. See also John 4:16-17.

Ephesians 4:30
Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit, with which you have been sealed for a day of releasing by ransom

The Holy Spirit can “grieve”.

John 15:26
When the helper comes that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which comes from the Father, that one will bear witness about me

The Holy Spirit bears witness.

Romans 8: 26
In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings.

The Holy Spirit pleads with “unuttered groanings”.

Matthew 28: 19
Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit

This one really baffles me. Nowhere in the Bible do you ever see God sharing the “spotlight”. God is always the hero of every biblical narrative. So it would be very uncharacteristic of God to tell the Disciples to baptize in the name of--what would effectively be for JWs--“me, *Mike and electricity”.

It’s sadly comical.

(*JWs do not believe that Jesus is God but Jesus is really the archangel Michael.)

Part I of IIi​
 
Part II of III​

1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these operations are performed by the very same spirit, distributing to each one respectively just as it wills.

The Holy Spirit “performs”, “distributes” and has a “will”.

Acts 5: 3-4
But Peter said: “An·a·niʹas, why has Satan emboldened you to lie to the holy spirit and secretly hold back some of the price of the field? As long as it remained with you, did it not remain yours? And after it was sold, was it not in your control? Why have you thought up such a deed as this in your heart? You have lied, not to men, but to God.” [emphasis mine]

You can lie to the Holy Spirit because He is a person. But can you lie to an “impersonal force” (i.e. electricity)?

Also note that in verse 3 the lie is being told to the Holy Spirit who--in verse 4--Peter calls God.

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons.

The Holy Spirit “leads”.

Acts 13:2
As they were ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Set aside for me Barʹna·bas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

The Holy “speaks”, has intelligence, is able to “call” (plan). Can electricity do that?

Acts 2: 4
and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak

Is an “impersonal force” capable of instilling a new language (new mental and intellectual capabilities) within the mind of person? Or is this something that only a person possessing intelligence capable of doing?

Matthew 12: 31-32
“For this reason I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a sin. But you can’t sin against a “force”? You can only sin against another person. See…
 
Part III of III​

Matthew 22:40 New World Translation
He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” [emphasis mine]

Note in the above verse that the whole of the Law and of the Prophets hangs on loving God and your neighbor…and these are all persons.

In other words, you can’t sin against an “impersonal force”...a "thing".

John 16: 7-8
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you. And when that one comes, he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment

The Holy Spirit provides evidence. This requires intelligence. Does a "force" have intelligence or does a person have intelligence?

John 14: 17
the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. [emphasis mine]

The Holy Spirit (referred to here as in “it”) can be known. The word used here for “know” is “ginosko”.

In Genesis 4:1, we read that Adam “knew” Eve (he knew her intimately) and the couple then had a son (Cain). The Hebrew word used there once transliterated (i.e. translated from another alphabet) is the word “ginosko”. (You will have to click on the word "egno" (Strong's 1097) to view the transliterated word.

Anyway, I say all this to simply ask, can you really get to “know” a person or are you also capable of really getting to “know” a person?

At the end of it all--even using the New World Translation Bible--it can still be demonstrated to any objective and clear-thinking individual that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, a person and not a "thing".
 
SHE !

I know the Bible and all was written by men, because women at the time were expected to be child bearers and chattel, and all that, but.............

Taking the Bible "literally" kinda amuses me. When He made man in his own image, He had an image of what man should look like (and probably had the wisdom to realize what man needed in terms of appendages in order to survive on Earth), not that He was creating man to LOOK LIKE HIM.

BUT I digress, people will believe what they want to believe, and go with that. That is why it is best to actually have an eyewitness.

Since I have had some interesting conversations with Her, I can attest to the fact that She is indeed a She, and She and I have had some good belly laughs at how religion evolved and how religion has twisted everything into male-centric beliefs.

She is particularly amused about how one religion claims all other religions are fake religions, that their own religion is the ONLY true religion. She is also amused by the concept of Hell. A mother never condemns her children, that is something men do, a mother forgives and loves no matter what the children do.

I prefer a world ruled by a Mother's love as opposed to a Father's venom and anger. So He is really a She, just so you all know ;)
 
What if the Spirit is/was the vivifying force (projected by the Father) into/onto proto-matter (the Sea/Ocean/the Deep/Mar/Mary/the Virgin) and the Son acts as the evolutionary force which differentiates matter into the many things in all nature we see and know of today? Modern science has tried to trace this from that original burst of energy where very few forces existed, through the miriad decent into most gross matter (our world of the present).
 
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It is the pet dove of the three in one god.
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
SHE !

I know the Bible and all was written by men, because women at the time were expected to be child bearers and chattel, and all that, but.............

Taking the Bible "literally" kinda amuses me. When He made man in his own image, He had an image of what man should look like (and probably had the wisdom to realize what man needed in terms of appendages in order to survive on Earth), not that He was creating man to LOOK LIKE HIM.

BUT I digress, people will believe what they want to believe, and go with that. That is why it is best to actually have an eyewitness.

Since I have had some interesting conversations with Her, I can attest to the fact that She is indeed a She, and She and I have had some good belly laughs at how religion evolved and how religion has twisted everything into male-centric beliefs.

She is particularly amused about how one religion claims all other religions are fake religions, that their own religion is the ONLY true religion. She is also amused by the concept of Hell. A mother never condemns her children, that is something men do, a mother forgives and loves no matter what the children do.

I prefer a world ruled by a Mother's love as opposed to a Father's venom and anger. So He is really a She, just so you all know ;)
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Wow.

Rarely do you see anyone go to so much trouble to say absolutely nothing.

And you obviously made no attempt to say anything intelligent or to contribute in any meaningful way.

Point-of-fact, your only thought appears to be able to mock Christianity. Fine! You've hid behind the anonymity of the internet to spew your contempt just as cowards do...especially those unable to say anything intelligent or of interest.

As such, please allow me this moment to congratulate you on being the first person I've ever put on "Ignore" for the simple reason that your post are so breathtakingly stupid as to simply be beneath me or any one else possessing the ability of critical thought.
 
The Baron said:
Wow.

Rarely do you see anyone go to so much trouble to say absolutely nothing.

And you obviously made no attempt to say anything intelligent or to contribute in any meaningful way.

Point-of-fact, your only thought appears to be able to mock Christianity. Fine! You've hid behind the anonymity of the internet to spew your contempt just as cowards do...especially those unable to say anything intelligent or of interest.

As such, please allow me this moment to congratulate you on being the first person I've ever put on "Ignore" for the simple reason that your post are so breathtakingly asinine.
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:( Snowflake isn't even the worst offender. If you start pressing that button you could wear it out.
 
The Baron said:
And you would be correct.

Odd how you can come to that conclusion from the New World Translation, isnt' it? 😁
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What does the term "person" mean in this context?
 
The Baron said:
And you would be correct.

Odd how you can come to that conclusion from the New World Translation, isnt' it? 😁
Click to expand...

Well, I've read just about every translation there is and there are new ones always coming out.
 
JH Oldoc said:
What does the term "person" mean in this context?
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You are a person in that you have intellect, emotions, free-will, desires, loves, hates, interest and all those things that make you an individual.

That would be the context.
 
The Baron said:
You are a person in that you have intellect, emotions, free-will, desires, loves, hates, interest and all those things that make you an individual.

That would be the context.
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...and the Holy Spirit? it has individual awareness?
 
JH Oldoc said:
...and the Father. Does it have individual awareness (in your opinion, that is)?
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The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all individual persons. They are three in person and one in substance.

Is that what you're after?
 
The Baron said:
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all individual persons. They are three in person and one in substance.

Is that what you're after?
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I was asking to understand your view on things was all.
 
The Baron said:
Very true.
Click to expand...

You'd have to know something about the Trinity doctrine (which is what makes Christianity possible) and hardly anybody on this site does. They would rather lean on their own lack of understanding.
 
The Baron said:
Wow.

Rarely do you see anyone go to so much trouble to say absolutely nothing.

And you obviously made no attempt to say anything intelligent or to contribute in any meaningful way.

Point-of-fact, your only thought appears to be able to mock Christianity. Fine! You've hid behind the anonymity of the internet to spew your contempt just as cowards do...especially those unable to say anything intelligent or of interest.

As such, please allow me this moment to congratulate you on being the first person I've ever put on "Ignore" for the simple reason that your post are so breathtakingly stupid as to simply be beneath me or any one else possessing the ability of critical thought.
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That is the other thing She and I laugh about: How easily the religiously sanctimonious get triggered and lash out. Quite hilarious actually.
 
JH Oldoc said:
:( Snowflake isn't even the worst offender. If you start pressing that button you could wear it out.
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I know that satire escapes some folks, but seriously??? YOU took everything I said "literally." ????
Man oh man, She and I are going to have ourselves a few laughs next time we meet at YOUR expense.
rolling-on-the-floor-laughing_1f923.png
 
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