- Joined
- Sep 28, 2011
- Messages
- 15,205
- Reaction score
- 11,432
- Location
- SF Bay Area
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
If Stalin had killed 20 million people between 1926 and 1941, then the population of the USSR at the end of the Second World War would've been 149 million (another 27 million killed during the war). By 1957 it was 200 million. So in the span of 12 years the Soviet population would've had to increase by over 50 million people, or 1/4th the entire population in less than a quarter of a century. All this on a birth rate that never exceeded 3.2. Try again.
And again; you have no sources to back that up. Simply stating numbers doesn't make it so.
As several of your posts keep making broad numeric and qualitive claims mostly without a single (and never relevant) citation or quote, don't you think its long overdue you practice what you have been preaching? Cause I agree with this fellow:
Gladly.
The population of the Soviet Union in 1941 was 196 million Andreev, E.M., et al., Naselenie Sovetskogo Soiuza, 1922-1991. Moscow, Nauka, 1993.
The Soviet census established the population of the Soviet Union in 1959 as 200 million. https://news.google.com/newspapers?...7345,6323498&dq=soviet+union+population&hl=en
The Soviet birth rate between 1945 and 1957: http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/russia-tfr-1946-2016.png
DK pointed out that the beginning population in 1941 and the ending population at 1/1/1946 are rough estimates since figures for the territories annexed in 1939–1940 and emigration from the USSR during the war are based on fragmentary information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union
You objected to your strawman that "Stalin had killed 20 million people between 1926 and 1941", which is not the position normally advanced (the period of up to 20 million extends to at least Stalin's death).
Of course, it would be generous to call you non-sequitur cites "reasoning" given that you also forgot to note the distorting effects of uncertain population increases from annexation of the Baltic States and Eastern Poland in the 1941 census.
The fact is that one cannot begin to seriously discuss the excess deaths from Stalin without far more complex demographic analysis, empirical analysis of the census of ethnic groups, confessions and numbers in the Soviet archives (and in memoirs), discovered mass graves, the newly discovered famine of the late 40s, and converging lines of evidence. So to that end, I will (in the future) post more serious analysis by experts not named "JRedbaron96".
In the meantime, I'll leave you with this nugget: you do know the 1937 Soviet census was repressed (and its director shot) because the numbers were so low as to suggest truth to the mass deaths, right?
Can you give me an example of a nation-state that adopted increasingly nationalistic policies and actually ended up better off for it?
To much political correctness in some of this group of posters! If a person wants his grandchildren to resemble looks wise
his grandparents that certainly is not racists, that's going way to far.
Germany in the 19th century.
Francoist Spain
Nazi Germany was also doing quite well until WWII
Imperial Germany that ended up losing WWI and lost it's entire Empire. Right.
The first 30 years of Fascist rule in Spain resulted in concentration camps, isolationism, autarky and general misery. It wasn't until the fascists lost power that Spain saw meaningful improvement, at least in it's economy.
No it wasn't. The Germany economy was literally on the verge of collapse when war broke out.
Did the nation improve before the war?
By what objective measure?
That improvement was due to the same reasons that Germany ended up on the losing side of two world wars. Nationalism was a temporary boon that ended up destroying the entire German Empire.
Didn't occur until 1960, which again was when the Fascists lost power in exchange to the Technocrats.
That is a very misleading statistic.
The Nazis solved Germany's massive unemployment problem with massive public works projects and military armaments programs. This dropped unemployment down to virtually 0%, but this was only because practically every military aged man had been conscripted into either the Wehrmacht or the factories. But alongside unemployment, the effective standard of living, real wages, and the availability of consumer goods all dropped as well. Germany had an industrial base but didn't produce any of the natural resources for it, so steel, oil, and food all had to be imported, which meant Germany was running a huge trade deficit, on top of the fact that it's expenditures were 101 billion marks whereas actual revenue amounted to just 62 billion.
By 1938 the Nazis had to force banks to buy government bonds and the government took money from saving accounts and insurance companies due to the government literally not having enough cash. The only reason Germany avoided complete economy collapse was by invading and taking the resources of other countries; case in point when war broke out Germany defaulted on all it's debts, and spent the next four years stealing everything they could out of France and Poland.
You're equating being dominated by a foreign power with economic failure. That's not at all obvious. Besides, the boom of the German empire lasted for quite a few decades.
If anything it proved that autarky couldn't work in Spain. It didn't have enough resources to be self-sufficient. And on top of that, Franco remained in power. It was still quite nationalist.
A lot of this sounds quite similar to what happened in all the western countries, except that the German economy was doing much better. Whether it was sustainable is quite another question, of course, but it certainly boomed while everyone else flailed.
But if you have a source with detailed economic information comparing Germany to other countries, I'd love to see it. These statistics aren't easily accessible online.
I asked this question in another thread and got what I found to be a very interesting answer.
So what do you think? Is it racist for a white country to remain white?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?