lol their elected leaders must be vetted by the theocrats. None of their so called "reformers" will even so much as criticize the closed circle of power of the theocracy let alone call for its end. True Iranian reformers are banned from elections.
Islam, as it is currently, is incompatible with democracy. Mainly because religion is the law in most of the Muslim countries.
Once they'd become secular, like turkey for example, they shouldn't have any problem with becoming a democracy.
That does not change the fact that even that limited measure of democracy is a great deal more representative than what one finds in many Sunni states. So I don't think that one can accurately say that Shia Islam is incompatible with democracy.
Sunni states; such as, Yemen and Turkey?
Agent Ferris said:Even Kuwait which is not even an electoral democracy is much freer than Iran.
Agent Ferris said:Lebanon would be an example of a Shia majority democracy, however, it is in fact the Shia within that country (see Hezbollah) which support the Islamist agenda, whereas, it is the Sunni and Christians who have insured the continuance of liberal democracy within Lebanon.
I'm sure you know the states to which I'm referring. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, the various gulf emirates, Central Asia, etc.
Kuwait might be FREER than Iran, but Iran is more DEMOCRATIC than Kuwait.
The poll doesn't say anything about liberal democracy. All democracy means is rule by the people. When you start attaching other meanings to it, like freedom or liberalism or separation of church and state, you are really asking if Islam is compatible with AMERICAN democracy. To that question, I would answer no...but then, neither is any other country besides the United States.
According to Samuel Huntington, Islam is incompatible with religion because
- there is no separation with church & state in these countries
- democracy is not present in their culture
- the Koran itself is contrary to democracy
...
Do you think he's right or wrong? Why?
Sharia is certainly incompatible with democracy. Islam and democracy are not incompatible per-say (see Indonesia, Yemen, Albania, Lebanon, Turkey, etc.).
This I disagree with. I'm both a Catholic and reformed Christian being an Perennialist Anglican but if anything I certainly lean towards the former approach. I don't think a lot of what went on at the reformation was a good thing nor was Catholicism and traditionalism before then becoming moribund.
One cannot, in my opinion, have a living meaningful religious community without enshrining the importance of religious tradition like those you mention of Islam's above.
What a load of bull****.
Christianity only "accepted" a separation of church and state out of pure survival instinct. The masses over time got more and more educated and slowly realized the bs the Church has spoon fed them for generations. Plus the political link between Church and rulers across the world became less and less when the rulers realized that they needed to give more freedoms and democratic access to its subjects or they would loose power totally.
Well all current democracies have muslim living with in them most of whom both worship Islam and partake in democracy.
Islamism isnt because it itself a different form of government.
Sharia is certainly incompatible with democracy. Islam and democracy are not incompatible per-say (see Indonesia, Yemen, Albania, Lebanon, Turkey, etc.).
Sharia is Islamic law.
If the majority of the population of a sovereign state wants Sharia law, is that not democracy?
None of which are Sunni "controlled." And notice the further away from the heartland of Islam the more progressive the societies tend to get? The heartland is Mecca isn't it?
Turkey established a seperation between church and state in the 1920s when they abolished the Caliphate and instituted democracy. And those other locales have something in common. They are all seen as outsiders or convertors by the Sunni establishment. The Shia are heretics. The Palestinians are the Jews of the Muslim world. Kurds aren't real Muslims. The Turks turned their backs on the Sunni prescription of the Caliphate. Most Indonesians are also converters.
The strangulation of the entire Middle Eastern civilization goes directly to a specific tribe throughout history and it is this tribe the claims Islam as theirs. After all, Muhammed was an Arab.
One could easily make the argument that this has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the Sunni tribe. I offer that today's Muslim world has evolved into a civilization that unwittingly offers allegiance to a tribe rather than to God. It's the same as Christiains were doing until the Protestant emerged.
How much democracy exists in Sudan?
.............................................INTRODUCTION
Yemen is one of the oldest centers of civilization in the Middle East, with a history dating back nearly 3,000 years. From the 16th to the 19th century, the Ottoman Empire ruled many of Yemen's cities. A succession of Zaydi imams governed areas of northern Yemen until military officers launched a coup and established the Yemen Arab Republic (YAR) in 1962. South Yemen was under British control from 1839 until it gained its independence in 1967 and soon afterward became the Marxist-dominated People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (PDRY). After the two parts of Yemen were united on May 22, 1990, in the Republic of Yemen, the country underwent unprecedented political reforms and took steps toward a democratic system of government.
In Yemen's first direct presidential elections, in September 1999, Ali Abdallah Salih, the former leader of the YAR, was elected to a second five-year term as president of the Republic of Yemen. Constitutional amendments on February 20, 2001, created a bicameral legislature consisting of a 111-seat Majlis Al-Shura (Consultative Council), to be appointed by the president, and a 301-member House of Representatives to be elected by popular vote. In the most recent parliamentary elections, held in April 2003, 19 political parties participated, including the president's dominant General People's Congress (GPC). The GPC monopolizes Yemen's politics, holding 237 seats in the current parliament. Corruption is an endemic problem at all levels of Yemen's government and society.
RECOMMENDATIONS
1. The government should increase the minimum age of marriage to 18 years to help girls complete their high school education and protect them from early and forced marriages, and initiate campaigns to increase awareness of the harmful effects of early marriage.
2. The government should create adequate prison facilities for women and allow human rights organizations and individuals to monitor their conditions.
3. The government should introduce laws to criminalize domestic violence against women in Yemen and work with women's NGOs to establish shelters and counseling services for women victims of violence.
freedomhouse.org: Yemen
I do neither support Islam nor the Western Democracy as such.
What to be proud of? That we bomb out countries that do not allow abortion? That we bomb out Slavic people that don't want to let their children be smacked for not being Albanian?
I consider the Western Democracy to be the deadly enemy of the values many people connect with Western Democracy.
However Islam I see as a similar problem as the Western Democracy.
Respect of each other is the key - too many "Western Democrats" (takes me a laughther) as well as too many Muslims cannot respect each other. I do neither appreciate one concept nor the other.
I do not understand Samuel Huntington. In "Who are we" e.g. he describes how Western Democracies loose their identity due to mass immigration - in the U.S. Latinos, in Europe Muslim immigrants -, so he is in fear that our perfect Western Democracy is at stake ...
Hallo? Mass immigration and the permanent propaganda that we are the evil White men who have to take care of them and support those people is everything Western Democracy stands for up to what I experienced. Western Democracy means labelling the White Man as the source of all evil in the world. What does he critizise? The failure of a concept which contains this failure?
I hope that there are concepts coming from our societies which can challenge the Western Democracies. There are strong Christian Movements in the U.S. or some Libertarian or National movements ins Europe which can challange our contemorary Western Democracies. Otherwise we will not be able to handle the threats like the radical Islam e.g.
Typical white nationalist rant against liberalism. Liberal democracy is the only civilized form of governance...
... and that includes equal rights for all citizens regardless of race, creed, or gender.
None of which are Sunni "controlled." And notice the further away from the heartland of Islam the more progressive the societies tend to get? The heartland is Mecca isn't it?
.
From its beginning
until today
liberal democracy did not miss one chance to demonstrate its degree of civilized behaviour.
Not true. Look e.g. at Spain, where men are punished harder explicitely by law with higher minimum or maximum sentences for domestic violence.
Political Rights and Civil Liberties
Citizens of Spain can change their government democratically. The Congress of Deputies, the lower house of the National Assembly, has 350 members who are elected from closed party lists in individual constituencies. The Senate has 259 members, 208 of which are directly elected and 51 of which are appointed as regional representatives. Members of both the Senate and Congress serve four-year terms. Following legislative elections, the prime minister (also the president of the government) is selected as a candidate by the monarch and is usually the leader of the majority party or coalition. The candidate must also be elected by the National Assembly. The country is divided into 17 autonomous regions with varying degrees of power.
People generally have the right to organize in different political parties and other competitive groups of their choice. The main political parties are the PSOE, the PP, the left CiU, the ERC, the PNV, the IU, and the CC. However, the Basque-separatist Batasuna party remains permanently banned since 2003 for its alleged ties to the armed group ETA.
Spain ranked 23 out of 159 countries surveyed in Transparency International's 2005 Corruption Perceptions Index. According to a 2004 report by Transparency International, the country's anticorruption efforts have improved in recent years. Spain has a free and lively press with more than 100 newspapers that cover a wide range of perspectives and are active in investigating high-level corruption. Daily newspaper ownership, however, is concentrated within large media groups like Prisa and Zeta. Arnaldo Otegi, a spokesman for the banned Basque nationalist party Batasuna, was sentenced to a year in prison for slandering Juan Carlos, the king of Spain. Otegi, a convicted kidnapper who currently faces charges for defending terrorism, said that the king was "in charge of torturers." Journalists who oppose the political views of ETA are often targets of the Basque separatist group. Internet access is not restricted.
Freedom of religion is guaranteed in Spain through constitutional and legal protections. Roman Catholicism, however, is the dominant religion and enjoys privileges that other religions do not, such as financing through the tax system. Jews, Muslims, and Protestants have official status through bilateral agreements with the state, while other religions (for example, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons) have no special agreements with the state. The government does not restrict academic freedom. However, academics who oppose the political views of ETA are often targets of the Basque separatist group.
The constitution provides for freedom of assembly, and the government respects this right in practice. People are free to demonstrate and speak publicly. Domestic and international nongovernmental organizations operate freely without government restrictions. With the exception of members of the military, workers are free to organize and join unions of their choice. Workers also have the right to strike, although there are limitations imposed on foreigners. The Basic Act on Rights and Freedoms of Foreigners in Spain, which went into force in 2001, limits the rights of foreign workers to organize and strike. The law, which forces foreigners to "obtain authorization for their stay or residence in Spain" before they can organize, strike, or freely assemble, is intended to distinguish between "legal" and "irregular" foreigners. The issue is currently before the Constitutional Court. In 2005, the Comisiones Obreras, Spain's largest trade union confederation, called for labor rights for prostitutes. According to the confederation, of the approximately 300,000 to 400,000 prostitutes working in the county, about 90 percent are immigrants.
The constitution provides for an independent judiciary. However, there have been concerns about the functioning of the judicial system, including the impact of media pressure on sensitive issues like immigration and Basque terrorism. There have been reports of police abuse of prisoners, especially immigrants. Police can also hold suspects of certain terror-related crimes for up to five days with access only to a public lawyer. Prison conditions generally meet international standards.
In April, an Argentine ex-naval officer, Adolfo Scilingo, was convicted of crimes against humanity and given 640 years in prison by a Spanish court. The offenses were committed during Argentina's "dirty war" between 1976 and 1983, when the country was under military rule. Some of Scilingo's victims, including Spanish citizens, were drugged, stripped naked, and thrown out of planes. The trial was the first under new laws in Spain that allow local prosecution for crimes committed in another country. In October, Spain's highest court expanded its powers to include cases of genocide committed abroad, even if Spanish citizens are not involved.
In October, a Spanish national, Hamed Abderrahman Ahmed, was convicted of belonging to a terrorist organization, al-Qaeda. Abderrahman, who had been held in
U.S. military custody in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for two years, was turned over toSpanish authorities in February 2004.
Under the new PSOE government of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the country instituted a three-month amnesty for illegal immigrants, which came to a close in May. Immigrants who could show residency in Spain for at least six months, a work contract of at least six months, and a clean criminal record were given the right to live and work in Spain. Human Rights Watch called for an independent investigation into abuses committed against illegal immigrants trying to enter Spain from Morocco. After international criticism of its deportation policies, Spain halted a recently resurrected 1992 agreement with Morocco, which allowed Spain to return all illegal immigrants who enter Spanish territory from Morocco, regardless of their nationality. Many of the illegal immigrants enter Spain by way of the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla in Morocco. The country's Aliens Law also allows for the expulsion of legal immigrants if they are involved in activities that are considered threatening to the country's national security.
Women enjoy legal protections against rape, domestic abuse, and sexual harassment in the workplace. However, violence against women-particularly within the home-remains a serious problem in the country. The new prime minister has made the protection of women's rights and gender equality a centerpiece of his administration. A new law was introduced to parliament over the year that would force men to share household chores and the care of their children and elderly family members. If adopted, men will have to sign a marriage contract at the wedding that will oblige them to share domestic responsibilities or face penalties in the event of a divorce settlement. Trafficking in women for the purpose of sexual exploitation remains a problem. In February 2005, the government modified its Aliens Law to include a provision for providing assistance to trafficking victims, the U.S. State Department reports, including making it easier to obtain residency permits. There are no quotas for women in national elective office. However, 35 percent of the seats in parliament during the elections in March were won by women, a 7 percent increase from the previous elections in 2000.
freedomhouse.org: Map of Freedom in the World
Or at countless affirmative actions which explicitely prefer people by race or gender.
I do neither support Islam nor the Western Democracy as such.
What to be proud of? That we bomb out countries that do not allow abortion? That we bomb out Slavic people that don't want to let their children be smacked for not being Albanian?
I consider the Western Democracy to be the deadly enemy of the values many people connect with Western Democracy.
However Islam I see as a similar problem as the Western Democracy.
Respect of each other is the key - too many "Western Democrats" (takes me a laughther) as well as too many Muslims cannot respect each other. I do neither appreciate one concept nor the other.
I do not understand Samuel Huntington. In "Who are we" e.g. he describes how Western Democracies loose their identity due to mass immigration - in the U.S. Latinos, in Europe Muslim immigrants -, so he is in fear that our perfect Western Democracy is at stake ...
Hallo? Mass immigration and the permanent propaganda that we are the evil White men who have to take care of them and support those people is everything Western Democracy stands for up to what I experienced. Western Democracy means labelling the White Man as the source of all evil in the world. What does he critizise? The failure of a concept which contains this failure?
I hope that there are concepts coming from our societies which can challenge the Western Democracies. There are strong Christian Movements in the U.S. or some Libertarian or National movements ins Europe which can challange our contemorary Western Democracies. Otherwise we will not be able to handle the threats like the radical Islam e.g.
I do not support Islam either, but this just seems like white supremacist crap to me. How is democracy labelling the white man as the source of all evil?
I do not know if you understand German language.
article fpr men being guilty of clima change
Wihte men guilty of economic crisis
White men ruin the world
I could throw links at you until you die, but I do not think that a discussion makes sense, when it is simply not your impression.
For me it is a contradiction to support our current system, but blaming Islam for anything which develops in the wrong direction.
Or in the case of Huntington "Who are we" blaming Latinos.
Im not too sure what your stance is your post makes no sense. So your against western democracy, but what does this have to do with Islam? What makes you think i understand German anyway :shock:
Typical white nationalist rant against liberalism.
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