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School shouldn't have classes on religions. School should have time for students to worship without gov't interference. There's a big difference.
Like to build straw men much?
School shouldn't have classes on religions. School should have time for students to worship without gov't interference. There's a big difference. If schools determine to have classes on relgion, they should have classes on all religions.
Like to build straw men much?
Then I invite government to use my tax dollar TO intervene in religion in every possible way starting with removing their tax exempt status by putting their presence, taking up time much better spent on teaching children the skills they need here on good ole planet earth...in a school system... paid by taxpayers.
Pray before school...or after school BUT NOT ON THE TAXPAYER'S MONEY...PERIOD!
Really, lately? An atheist sees, for example, the prayers around the flag pole and doesn't initiate a law suit?And they do. Many schools have prayers around the flag pole in the morning, students are free to pray at lunch and on breaks and after school. Students can start their own prayer club that meets on campus after school hours. And, of course, anyone can pray to themselves any time they want.
You're the only one around here flogging a straw man.
Yet another example of Atheists' ideology that includes the attempted elimination of religion from gov't even though not the intention of the Founding Fathers in the Constitution.
School shouldn't have classes on religions. School should have time for students to worship without gov't interference. There's a big difference. If schools determine to have classes on relgion, they should have classes on all religions.
Like to build straw men much?
Really, lately? An atheist sees, for example, the prayers around the flag pole and doesn't initiate a law suit?
EDIT: activity of praying around the flag pole would be wrong if all were forced to pray around the flag pole.... even those who didn't believe in the religion or ideology of record during the prayer.
Another religious savant interpreter of the intentions of the Founding Fathers.
I think we'd better call it a day as I see our exchanges not going to end well.
How do you atheists explain the In God We Trust Banner on all bills? Have you guys tried to get rid of?
OK, here's this. Madison was the originator of the religious freedom expression and meaning and was the driving force for religious freedoms in the Constitution. Religious freedom, according to Madison, didn't mean separation of church and state where gov't was devoid of religion.. it meant everyone was allowed to practice their own religious beliefs WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. Duh?
If you think Madison was a proponent of religion being a strong component of government...man...you do need to go back to school yourself...and one that teaches the truth about our government's history...along with a heavy dose of science.
School shouldn't have classes on religions. School should have time for students to worship without gov't interference. There's a big difference. If schools determine to have classes on relgion, they should have classes on all religions.
Like to build straw men much?
It's really sad that there are so many people around here who are not only absurdly ignorant, they're proud of their ignorance. Their entire worldview demands they maintain their ignorance. Reality gets in the way of faith, so when reality and faith come into conflict, reality gets jettisoned every time.
No pun intended, but "MY GOD"...we have centuries of history that is explicit about the horrors of having a sectarian type government or at least a government, which is significantly influenced by religion.
What in the hell is so hard to understand about these horrible times in history? That's why we need FREE THINKERS being leaders of a secular government so that future generations never repeat such terrible events.
Thanks, Cephus....
Yet it's these very people who want to get back to the "good old days" where their religion was in charge. They don't see those days as horrible, but preferable. My sig still holds true, there isn't any demonstrably true thing that religion provides the world that cannot be achieved, as well or better, through purely secular means. It's a good thing that religion is falling apart worldwide, within a few decades, it will hold little if any political or social power.
First hand example of the Athists' ideology to attempt to eliminate religion from gov't. Again, not what the Framers had in mind.
Not gonna comment on this tripe. Don't think atheists actively want to remove religion from gov't? I've got a lake I want to sell you in Arizona.
"eliminate all religion from government" isn't a part of atheism. It may or may not be true that most atheists want that, but that's not requisite for atheism. As I stated before, I've known some people associated with the neoconservative movement who are atheists that want more religion in government, because it gives them a lot of power.
Again, that's not a part of atheism. That's a political belief associated with the American form of government; secularism. Not all atheists are secularists, and not all secularists are atheists. Most may be, but it's a separate concern.
As an atheist...and I know a lot of atheists...none of which would EVER subscribe to government being a little infused with religious influence....much less more. If you know somebody who claims that belief, THEY ARE NOT ATHEISTS!
That's a very, very, very dead argument. DUH! Madison said that he had seen the blood stains on all of Europe caused by hundreds of years religion's need to either act as government or have strong influence of religion.
If you think Madison was a proponent of religion being a strong component of government...man...you do need to go back to school yourself...and one that teaches the truth about our government's history...along with a heavy dose of science.
I'm sure you believe Washington chopped down the cherry tree and couldn't lie to his dad about it.
If separation of church and state doesn't mean devoid of church influence on the state...then we'd be right back where Europe was for hundreds of years.
When you want to elect a real Muslim...not a made up Muslim...who want's Islam taught in public schools over catholicism or other western religions...call me up and we'll have a chat. Cuz I don't think I'd ever see that day coming from you...and I don't even know you.
Re read this link Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities
about the guy (Madison), that first mentioned religious freedoms in a Virginia document, and was the driving force for religious freedoms in the US Constitution.
I don't know where you're getting your info, or who you're referring to. Is it Jefferson? Provide a link that states what you've posted is about Madison.
Why does it matter if it's Madison, or Jefferson, or some other Forefather's opinion of religion in gov't? Probably because Madison first used the phrase religious freedoms in the Virginia Commonwealth Declaration of Rights written before the US Constitution. Probably because different forefathers had different definitions of religious freedoms. Jefferson, for example, wanted government devoid of religion. He was a forefather of the US who instigated the separation of church and state philosophy regarding religion. Madison said no to this while he had a say. While the US Constitution was being written.
A particular presidential candidate of the nascent US stated: (it's in the Madison link about religious freedoms and the Constitution I provided) as long as there's no churches or synagogues in, for example, Saudi Arabia, there shouldn't be any mosques in America. As the US Constitution was being written, Madison said no to this. Some Forefathers of America wanted to tax religions to help pay for the Revolutionary War debt. As the US Constitution was being written, Madison said no to this.
Who were you referring to, Removable Mind, with your post, and show proof.
I do. I live in the DC area and know some people involved in politics. I'm thinking specifically of one person who is affiliated with neoconservatives. He said very directly that he doesn't think the general population is smart enough to make decisions, and needs to be led by a strong Republican government, and that incorporating religion into politics gives them a strong hand for controlling their voters.
That individual -- and the political movement he was associated with -- are very Machiavellian. I've heard the same from others in that political movement, but none so clearly as that one. Most of history is filled with Noble's who have no interest in religion but claim direct decendency from gods and saints and angels.
Re read this link Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities
about the guy (Madison), that first mentioned religious freedoms in a Virginia document, and was the driving force for religious freedoms in the US Constitution.
I don't know where you're getting your info, or who you're referring to. Is it Jefferson? Provide a link that states what you've posted is about Madison.
Why does it matter if it's Madison, or Jefferson, or some other Forefather's opinion of religion in gov't? Probably because Madison first used the phrase religious freedoms in the Virginia Commonwealth Declaration of Rights written before the US Constitution. Probably because different forefathers had different definitions of religious freedoms. Jefferson, for example, wanted government devoid of religion. He was a forefather of the US who instigated the separation of church and state philosophy regarding religion. Madison said no to this while he had a say. While the US Constitution was being written.
A particular presidential candidate of the nascent US stated: (it's in the Madison link about religious freedoms and the Constitution I provided) as long as there's no churches or synagogues in, for example, Saudi Arabia, there shouldn't be any mosques in America. As the US Constitution was being written, Madison said no to this. Some Forefathers of America wanted to tax religions to help pay for the Revolutionary War debt. As the US Constitution was being written, Madison said no to this.
Who were you referring to, Removable Mind, with your post, and show proof.
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