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The bold is problem number one.. you get your healthcare subsidized by your workplace. The actual cost is far far more than what you pay.. plus the 20k does not state how big a deductible there is (or did I miss that?), and would wager that not only is there a rather large deductible in your insurance but there is also a limit to how much you can use. There are plenty of horror stories where families use up their 50k limit of care in a few weeks for their sick child and have to go into massive debt, and later bankruptcy to pay for the remaining care.
Because of the bold above... your WORK. The true cost is hidden since your work place pays most of it. And that is what is going on here, forcing workplaces to pay healthcare for all their workers.. since you insist on having that stupid system in the first place.
Plus your costs wont go up... since you have healthcare coverage... now should you loose your job, well then you are as screwed as you have always been I guess.
Your whole system is about that.. before Obamacare and after Obamacare. Nothing has really changed, except that people are now realizing how expensive it actually is and a few on why... the system is beyond broken and is totally driven by profit and exploitation.
The recent release of the price database for hospitals never got the coverage it should have thanks to the media handling of the healthcare industry, but the very fact that a surgery can cost 4k one place and 90k a few miles away ... shows that there is a massive problem.
When you have a system, where it is cheaper for a patient to send a relative down to the local drugstore to buy a box of over the counter painkillers, than it is to ask the nurse for one...just ONE pill.. then you know there is a massive problem.
But dont worry, the usual right wingers paid by the GOP will soon hit this thread and blame Obama for everything, while ignoring the fact it is the healthcare system and its political backers... the GOP... that are the root problem.
MaggieD said:It is very unfortunate that, many years ago, Congress excepted employer-paid premiums from Federal income tax.* In my opinion, had this NOT been done, people would have been clamoring for healthcare reform for years.
J-Mac actually believes his insurance costs $3,600. That's the sad part. He has no IDEA how much his employer is paying to subsidize its cost. One trip to COBRA and he would be educated.
*The employer gets to deduct the subsidized portion of an employee's health insurance as a business expense, so he pays no taxes on it. The employee is given that perk tax-free and has no IDEA how much his employer pays for it. Market forces not at work.
Yes, and in Spain they have actually started to educate the population on costs... healthcare is free (well pretty much) but you get a bill when you are in hospital. That way people get to see how much it actually costs and frankly it is a good idea.
Yea. Well, now he can just buy insurance at the door and can't be denied so none of that will be an issue, will it?
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.
That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.
It's not free. Why do people always call state health care paid through state taxes "free"? And I bet that the "education" won't work in Spain's "free" system. The only way that a "free" system works is with strictly controlled services delivery. People are far less likely to go to the doctor for a cold if the wait time is 8 hours rather than 20 minutes.
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.
That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.
I think the $20K number was used as an example by the IRS. They weren't saying that, after studying the marketplace, that's what the number would be.
I do agree with you. There is no way the average individual's health insurance premium is going to be lower under Obamacare. Of course, people who've never been subsidized will be subsidized now . . . *shrug*
Edit: Oh! And I'm glad your employer has seen fit to let his employees know what he's paying. That's very important information, in my opinion.
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.
Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.
Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.
Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.
Yeah, I guess that is the reason all of the countries with socialistic healthcare have better life expectancy than the US. :roll:
And he will be getting bills for years. My wife had a major medical event 5 years ago, we have not got a new bill for less than a year. her even was about a million even, give or take. Kinda sucks when you have an 80/20.
Yeah, I guess that is the reason all of the countries with socialistic healthcare have better life expectancy than the US. :roll:
Wow, that sucks....Is he going to be ok?
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.
Yea. Well, now he can just buy insurance at the door and can't be denied so none of that will be an issue, will it?
Uh ... there is no "National health care system" in America - that's the problem. The AHCA will hopefully help in getting us to single payer- some day.
What's going to happen is that more and more people who are already at the lower end of the pay scale are never going to leave that demographic. Between employers reducing the hours of entry level employees to avoid the requirement to provide insurance and subsidies for insurance at lower income levels it's likely that we will see a whole lot of those folks who would normally be in the $45-50k income bracket back off to a lower level where more federal benefits are offered. For someone right out of school it will be a very difficult transition to economic independence.
What's going to happen is that more and more people who are already at the lower end of the pay scale are never going to leave that demographic. Between employers reducing the hours of entry level employees to avoid the requirement to provide insurance and subsidies for insurance at lower income levels it's likely that we will see a whole lot of those folks who would normally be in the $45-50k income bracket back off to a lower level where more federal benefits are offered. For someone right out of school it will be a very difficult transition to economic independence.
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.
Most, at least all health care plans that I've seen (mine included) are 80/20 up to your out of pocket expenses. They do have a cutoff point, at least every plan I've ever seen does.
It's not free. Why do people always call state health care paid through state taxes "free"? And I bet that the "education" won't work in Spain's "free" system. The only way that a "free" system works is with strictly controlled services delivery. People are far less likely to go to the doctor for a cold if the wait time is 8 hours rather than 20 minutes.
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.
That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.
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