Iran Bombing, has everyone calmed down yet?

[SNOWFLAKE]

Man oh man, it was fun reading the threads last night and this morning on the bombing of Iran ordered by Trump.

I swear, day in and day out, the virulent and hyperbolic responses, pro or con, are becoming more and more unglued.

Some observations:

Righties were having a party. They were positively glowing. Never mind if the attack was wise or what might be future consequences, to them, it was ALL about Trump proving he was the tough guy.

Leftists were of course against the strikes. Purely on ideological lines. Never explaining really what would happen if those sites were to continue to exist and eventually Iran would get a nuke.

Yet, the few of us who carefully read up on considered analysis from non hyper-partisan sources read about the fact the Iran was NOT on the brink of a nuke. But of course the counter argument still persisted that while not on the brink, it they chose, they could produce one within weeks, maybe months.

My own personal opinion was that negotiations needed to be taken further, that for years the U.S. has failed - under several Presidents - to support the Iranian people in an effort to overthrow this regime, not by force, but by subversion. Also, this is Israel's fight. For now.

And there was still the stick hanging over Iran that the U.S. could strike them and strike them hard if they ever did build a nuke or were actually just days away from one, which they weren't.

BUT.............. none of those arguments rose to the level of hand-wringing by the left, and high-fiving by the right. Especially nauseating was reading whataboutisms, that previous Presidents also bombed their enemies, so why pick on Trump? That is so typical, hey, look over there, that guy did it too so why can't my guy do it?

Now I have expressed my opinion I am opening up this poll to hopefully sagacious and thoughtful replies, realizing of course, that some will nevertheless engage in snide and snarky remarks. It is what it is. But I will ask anyways.

 

[Sven Karma]

I voted other, just not to be ambivalent. Strategically you'd have to think that Israel controlling Iranian airspace made the operation, in itself, a home run. The whether or not of doing it is another big mushroom in the sky.

 

[gman]

Man oh man, it was fun reading the threads last night and this morning on the bombing of Iran ordered by Trump.

I swear, day in and day out, the virulent and hyperbolic responses, pro or con, are becoming more and more unglued.

Some observations:

Righties were having a party. They were positively glowing. Never mind if the attack was wise or what might be future consequences, to them, it was ALL about Trump proving he was the tough guy.

Leftists were of course against the strikes. Purely on ideological lines. Never explaining really what would happen if those sites were to continue to exist and eventually Iran would get a nuke.

Yet, the few of us who carefully read up on considered analysis from non hyper-partisan sources read about the fact the Iran was NOT on the brink of a nuke. But of course the counter argument still persisted that while not on the brink, it they chose, they could produce one within weeks, maybe months.

My own personal opinion was that negotiations needed to be taken further, that for years the U.S. has failed - under several Presidents - to support the Iranian people in an effort to overthrow this regime, not by force, but by subversion. Also, this is Israel's fight. For now.

And there was still the stick hanging over Iran that the U.S. could strike them and strike them hard if they ever did build a nuke or were actually just days away from one, which they weren't.

BUT.............. none of those arguments rose to the level of hand-wringing by the left, and high-fiving by the right. Especially nauseating was reading whataboutisms, that previous Presidents also bombed their enemies, so why pick on Trump? That is so typical, hey, look over there, that guy did it too so why can't my guy do it?

Now I have expressed my opinion I am opening up this poll to hopefully sagacious and thoughtful replies, realizing of course, that some will nevertheless engage in snide and snarky remarks. It is what it is. But I will ask anyways.

I don’t like us being Israel’s poodle. But at the same time being played by the Iranians. Both nations are nefarious characters with I believe the Iranians being more so because they have been waging war against us and other western nations for decades. No matter how you look at it’s just not a good situation for us to be in.

 

[Perotista]

Man oh man, it was fun reading the threads last night and this morning on the bombing of Iran ordered by Trump.

I swear, day in and day out, the virulent and hyperbolic responses, pro or con, are becoming more and more unglued.

Some observations:

Righties were having a party. They were positively glowing. Never mind if the attack was wise or what might be future consequences, to them, it was ALL about Trump proving he was the tough guy.

Leftists were of course against the strikes. Purely on ideological lines. Never explaining really what would happen if those sites were to continue to exist and eventually Iran would get a nuke.

Yet, the few of us who carefully read up on considered analysis from non hyper-partisan sources read about the fact the Iran was NOT on the brink of a nuke. But of course the counter argument still persisted that while not on the brink, it they chose, they could produce one within weeks, maybe months.

My own personal opinion was that negotiations needed to be taken further, that for years the U.S. has failed - under several Presidents - to support the Iranian people in an effort to overthrow this regime, not by force, but by subversion. Also, this is Israel's fight. For now.

And there was still the stick hanging over Iran that the U.S. could strike them and strike them hard if they ever did build a nuke or were actually just days away from one, which they weren't.

BUT.............. none of those arguments rose to the level of hand-wringing by the left, and high-fiving by the right. Especially nauseating was reading whataboutisms, that previous Presidents also bombed their enemies, so why pick on Trump? That is so typical, hey, look over there, that guy did it too so why can't my guy do it?

Now I have expressed my opinion I am opening up this poll to hopefully sagacious and thoughtful replies, realizing of course, that some will nevertheless engage in snide and snarky remarks. It is what it is. But I will ask anyways.

I was hoping we wouldn’t get involved. We have now, so we move on from here or there depending on how one looks at it. No amount of hang wringing or high fives as you put it is going to change anything. What’s done is done. The question now becomes, where do we go from here?

Am I upset or happy? Neither. I figured bombing of Iranian nuclear sites was coming, just not as soon as they did. I accept the bombing as a fact. I may wonder at times, what comes next. But since I can’t control, help, change anything or prevent what will come, I don’t worry about it. What is, is and what will come, will come. Worrying about things one can’t do anything about gives you ulcers and accomplishes nothing.

 

[multivita-man]

Man oh man, it was fun reading the threads last night and this morning on the bombing of Iran ordered by Trump.

I swear, day in and day out, the virulent and hyperbolic responses, pro or con, are becoming more and more unglued.

Some observations:

Righties were having a party. They were positively glowing. Never mind if the attack was wise or what might be future consequences, to them, it was ALL about Trump proving he was the tough guy.

Leftists were of course against the strikes. Purely on ideological lines. Never explaining really what would happen if those sites were to continue to exist and eventually Iran would get a nuke.

Yet, the few of us who carefully read up on considered analysis from non hyper-partisan sources read about the fact the Iran was NOT on the brink of a nuke. But of course the counter argument still persisted that while not on the brink, it they chose, they could produce one within weeks, maybe months.

My own personal opinion was that negotiations needed to be taken further, that for years the U.S. has failed - under several Presidents - to support the Iranian people in an effort to overthrow this regime, not by force, but by subversion. Also, this is Israel's fight. For now.

And there was still the stick hanging over Iran that the U.S. could strike them and strike them hard if they ever did build a nuke or were actually just days away from one, which they weren't.

BUT.............. none of those arguments rose to the level of hand-wringing by the left, and high-fiving by the right. Especially nauseating was reading whataboutisms, that previous Presidents also bombed their enemies, so why pick on Trump? That is so typical, hey, look over there, that guy did it too so why can't my guy do it?

Now I have expressed my opinion I am opening up this poll to hopefully sagacious and thoughtful replies, realizing of course, that some will nevertheless engage in snide and snarky remarks. It is what it is. But I will ask anyways.

I seriously doubt this is over. Iran may do its best to avoid direct confrontation with the United States, but I expect that they are going to double down on attacking Israel, and unlike in Gaza, their civilians are going to pay a cost. Iranian citizens will, too, as Bibi gets more desperate and begins lashing out, but I doubt Iran is going to go quietly into the night, and the longer this conflict continues, the more likely it is that the U.S. gets sucked into it.

 

[reinaert]

I seriously doubt this is over. Iran may do its best to avoid direct confrontation with the United States, but I expect that they are going to double down on attacking Israel, and unlike in Gaza, their civilians are going to pay a cost. Iranian citizens will, too, as Bibi gets more desperate and begins lashing out, but I doubt Iran is going to go quietly into the night, and the longer this conflict continues, the more likely it is that the U.S. gets sucked into it.

Bold action with little thought to consequence is the leitmotif, no?

Cool. Someone should apprehend Bibi, deliver him to the Hague, and invite Taco to figure that mess out.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[multivita-man]

I don’t like us being Israel’s poodle. But at the same time being played by the Iranians.

If anything, it was Iran who got played by the United States, when we were posturing to be serious about another nuke deal with Iran when in reality we were just helping to set up a surprise attack by Israel.

Both nations are nefarious characters with I believe the Iranians being more so because they have been waging war against us and other western nations for decades.

I am no fan or apologist for the current regime and tend to be suspicious of theocracies generally, but the situation is more complicated than Iran hates the Jews. The Islamic revolution of 1979 was a reaction to a 25-year period of oppression that followed after the US and UK overthrew the previous Iranian leadership because they wanted to nationalize their own oil.

No matter how you look at it’s just not a good situation for us to be in.

Indeed. One would think we have some measure of self-determination, but special interests being what they are...

 

[multivita-man]

Bold action with little thought to consequence is the leitmotif, no?

Cool. Someone should apprehend Bibi, deliver him to the Hague, and invite Taco to figure that mess out.

He doesn't have the brains. I mean, he can't even speak in coherent sentences half the time.

 

[reinaert]

He doesn't have the brains. I mean, he can't even speak in coherent sentences half the time.

Maybe he can outsource an invasion of Nederland to his DUI hire.

 

[Evilroddy]

This was a stupid move by the Trump Administration. Expect the Iranian Government to go underground, in order to avoid complete state government decapitation. Also expect Iran to formally withdraw from the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) and in three months watch the Iranian nuclear energy and possibly now weapons programme go utterly dark. In the mean time Iran should do nothing but hunker down, document and diseminate the carnage meted out to it, take all of the punishment directed at it and let Americans turn on each other over this attack while the world turns on America. The Trump Administration failed to properly inform Congressional leadership, choosing to inform only the Republican leadership but no Democrat leaders and at the same time informing foreign states like the UK ahead of the attack. That is illegal according to US law (no surprise here when dealing with Mr. Trump's lawlessness). Iran should then do what it needs to do, making defensive treaties with Russia and China, trying to get the BRICS Bloc to undermine Western Economic hegemony, making its own choice to produce or not produce nuclear weapons, and to encourage other countries like Poland, South Korea, Brazil and Germany to become nuclear armed powers and encouraging nuclear armed powers to expand their nuclear weapons stockpiles. This escalation by the US should trigger a nuclear weapon proliferation around the globe, once many states withdraw from the NPT.

Iran should now mobilise its military age population and begin training them in civil defence and emergency response to battle damage as the Israelis and the US continue to attack Iran mercilessly. Turn the entire surviving Iranian population into a 90-million strong defensive hedgehog fortress to resist foreign military invasion by ground forces. The only aggressive reaction which Iran should take should be deliberately covert and thoroughly deniable. When American airliners start crashing into American cities, when foreign LNG transport ships start crashing into American port facilities and when global financial and cryptocurrency markets come under attack and wealth by the trillions disappears, then the world will turn on the Trump Administration with a vengeance just in time for the US mid-term elections. Then the American people should drive the MAGA-Republicans from power by the ballot box. When both houses of Congress are hostile to this lawless Administration, then Congress must begin impeachment and trials from Trump downwards to root out the power and influence of MAGA from the American State. When Trump moves to block this but trying to stop or corrupt such elections or staging a coup after them, then the American Republic will be dead and the emergence of a highly illiberal and authoritarian regime in America will be Iran's ultimate revenge for these military attacks. From Iran's perspective if/when America descends into violent uprisings or better still open civil war, then the Iranians will be even happier with the vengeance which this attack has triggered on the superpower which has attacked them.

Evilroddy.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I was hoping we wouldn’t get involved. We have now, so we move on from here or there depending on how one looks at it. No amount of hang wringing or high fives as you put it is going to change anything. What’s done is done. The question now becomes, where do we go from here?

Am I upset or happy? Neither. I figured bombing of Iranian nuclear sites was coming, just not as soon as they did. I accept the bombing as a fact. I may wonder at times, what comes next. But since I can’t control, help, change anything or prevent what will come, I don’t worry about it. What is, is and what will come, will come. Worrying about things one can’t do anything about gives you ulcers and accomplishes nothing.

While not worrying, one can still HOPE that the temperature will go down before it gets too dangerously high.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I seriously doubt this is over. Iran may do its best to avoid direct confrontation with the United States, but I expect that they are going to double down on attacking Israel, and unlike in Gaza, their civilians are going to pay a cost. Iranian citizens will, too, as Bibi gets more desperate and begins lashing out, but I doubt Iran is going to go quietly into the night, and the longer this conflict continues, the more likely it is that the U.S. gets sucked into it.

The US should have waited to see if a nuke was imminent. Not CLAIMING it was imminent. As an excuse to bomb them. I also worry that this action was a vanity exercise by Trump. Either way, I believe that the option to bomb their nuclear facilities should have stayed on the table but take a more wait n see approach before taking such action.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Both nations are nefarious characters with I believe the Iranians being more so because they have been waging war against us and other western nations for decades. No matter how you look at it’s just not a good situation for us to be in.

LMMFAO. Yes. It is the Iranians who have been "waging war on the US for decades".

The average misinformed American is just a crying shame. Now we pay for our hubris and ignorance.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

If anything, it was Iran who got played by the United States, when we were posturing to be serious about another nuke deal with Iran when in reality we were just helping to set up a surprise attack by Israel.



I am no fan or apologist for the current regime and tend to be suspicious of theocracies generally, but the situation is more complicated than Iran hates the Jews. The Islamic revolution of 1979 was a reaction to a 25-year period of oppression that followed after the US and UK overthrew the previous Iranian leadership because they wanted to nationalize their own oil.



Indeed. One would think we have some measure of self-determination, but special interests being what they are...

A VERY nuanced response. Most are not aware of the history of the Iranian regime. Most just jump on the for or against bandwagon.
Like I had hoped for, a nuanced response

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

This was a stupid move by the Trump Administration. Expect the Iranian Government to go underground, in order to avoid complete state government decapitation. Also expect Iran to formally withdraw from the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) and in three months watch the Iranian nuclear energy and possibly now weapons programme go utterly dark. In the mean time Iran should do nothing but hunker down, document and diseminate the carnage meted out to it, take all of the punishment directed at it and let Americans turn on each other over this attack while the world turns on America. The Trump Administration failed to properly inform Congressional leadership, choosing to inform only the Republican leadership but no Democrat leaders and at the same time informing foreign states like the UK ahead of the attack. That is illegal according to US law (no surprise here when dealing with Mr. Trump's lawlessness). Iran should then do what it needs to do, making defensive treaties with Russia and China, trying to get the BRICS Bloc to undermine Western Economic hegemony, making its own choice to produce or not produce nuclear weapons, and to encourage other countries like Poland, South Korea, Brazil and Germany to become nuclear armed powers and encouraging nuclear armed powers to expand their nuclear weapons stockpiles. This escalation by the US should trigger a nuclear weapon proliferation around the globe, once many states withdraw from the NPT.

Iran should now mobilise its military age population and begin training them in civil defence and emergency response to battle damage as the Israelis and the US continue to attack Iran mercilessly. Turn the entire surviving Iranian population into a 90-million strong defensive hedgehog fortress to resist foreign military invasion by ground forces. The only aggressive reaction which Iran should take should be deliberately covert and thoroughly deniable. When American airliners start crashing into American cities, when foreign LNG transport ships start crashing into American port facilities and when global financial and cryptocurrency markets come under attack and wealth by the trillions disappears, then the world will turn on the Trump Administration with a vengeance just in time for the US mid-term elections. Then the American people should drive the MAGA-Republicans from power by the ballot box. When both houses of Congress are hostile to this lawless Administration, then Congress must begin impeachment and trials from Trump downwards to root out the power and influence of MAGA from the American State. When Trump moves to block this but trying to stop or corrupt such elections or staging a coup after them, then the American Republic will be dead and the emergence of a highly illiberal and authoritarian regime in America will be Iran's ultimate revenge for these military attacks. From Iran's perspective if/when America descends into violent uprisings or better still open civil war, then the Iranians will be even happier with the vengeance which this attack has triggered on the superpower which has attacked them.

Evilroddy.

Excellent response. However, as I prefaced in my opening comment, the US has long lacked in it's support of grassroots and underground movements within Iran to help it revolutionizing itself against the regime.

Now it's bombs away and hope for the best. The US, and yes, the rest of the world, has ALWAYS been short-sighted. The US has seldom been proactive but always reactive.

I do however have to disagree with your assertions about what Iran "should" do. Your suggestions come across as hyperbolic and that is something I was hoping to avoid. But your analysis of what "could" happen next is excellent.

 

[Peacenik]

American hostages will be taken in 3 - 2 - .....

 

[Slartibartfast]

I see the inevitable result is that the US gets sucked into another war like the Iraq war under Bush in the early 2000s.

The good news is that my nephew who was going to into the navy has decided not to get involved in that.

 

[bythoughts]

We're calmed down already. But we'll be un-calmed down if a nuclear power plant in the U.S. blows up, or a new virus is released in six different subways, or ... well, there's a lot of things that could go wrong now.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I see the inevitable result is that the US gets sucked into another war like the Iraq war under Bush in the early 2000s.

The good news is that my nephew who was going to into the navy has decided not to get involved in that.

I believe the US will not get sucked into any ground operations. But more bombing sure, it's a sure way of showing off America's might.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

We're calmed down already. But we'll be un-calmed down if a nuclear power plant in the U.S. blows up, or a new virus is released in six different subways, or ... well, there's a lot of things that could go wrong now.

Yup. Definitely could. Those who are celebrating this attack aren't thinking about what is to come. Mind you, if Iran actually did build a nuke, most people would agree at that point some action would be needed. But this was putting the cart before the horse.

 

[gman]

If anyone’s misinformed it’s you. The Iranians extracted their pound of flesh by humiliating the U.S. in taking over our embassy and holding US citizens as hostage for 400 days. Unfortunately however that wasn’t enough for them and continued their attacks against not just the U.S. but western nations as well as ME countries who had friendly relations with the west for the next 40 years. Your hatred for the U.S. is a constant on this forum.

 

[Napoleon]

The reality is that diplomacy and sanctions have never prevented nuclear proliferation. The only question is: do you want Iran, and by extension its proxy terrorist organizations, to have nuclear weapons? If the answer to that is no then war is the only way.

 

[MAGAnificent]

My take is that the nuke sites had to either be dismantled or taken out. The regime was given every opportunity, perhaps too many opportunities to accept an agreement to dismantle them. They refused. Therefore, they had to be taken out. Only the US military was capable of taking them out without nearly endless bombing runs. The world is now a safer place. This issue should not be about partisan politics.

 

[Cameron]

I don't know yet. This is the type of thing I would prefer to leave to the experts, and I don't consider the people currently in charge to be experts or remotely trust them to follow the experts.