ThePlayDrive
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I'm done debating you and this is why. In the post of mine that you just quoted, I said, "Their lives may influence their music or their music may influence their lives, but their lives and their music are two separate things." Above, you cut that part of my post out and then accused me of claiming one's lifestyle doesn't have any bearing on their music. That you would accuse me of doing something when I specifically did the opposite and then cut the part of my post that demonstrates this is dishonest. You've been dishonest in this entire "discussion" and I've given you several chances to redeem yourself. We're done.I'm not even surew where to begin with this. Clearly if their music is based on their lifestyle, it's strange to claim they are separate and one doesn't have a bearing over the other when we are discussing musical content here
I'm done debating you and this is why. In the post of mine that you just quoted, I said, "Their lives may influence their music or their music may influence their lives, but their lives and their music are two separate things."
That you would accuse me of doing something when I specifically did the opposite and then cut the part of my post that demonstrates this is dishonest. You've been dishonest in this entire "discussion" and I've given you several chances to redeem yourself. We're done.
Depends on the students. They are all dealing with different types of privilege and disadvantage.Let me ask you a question. Is a middle class black student less likely to succeed then a poor inner city white? Is a poor inner city black student less likely to succeed then a poor inner city white student?
That's not what it means to me either.To me equality isn't some rigid standard where literally everyone has the same results.
Not nearly enough has been done.We have done things to help poor blacks for the 50 something years since Dr. King made such a statement.
People who are resentful of affirmative action have problems. They aren't my concern.I'd argue that such racism isn't the primary roadblock for the black community as a whole, and if anything such affirmative action may be harmful by creating resentment by individuals who had nothing to do with the racism that persisted in the 1960s.
Education should be improved, I agree. Reducing crime should happen as well - although reducing crime isn't at much of a solution as it is a problem. As far as the family, that's not something the government should be involving itself in.Rather, I think a better solution is to improve the success rate of black Americans as a whole by reducing crime, improving schools, and reinstitutionalizing the family.
Actually, immigrants were singled out and given "extra benefits" when they got here. In fact, they are still getting benefits as there are programs, scholarships and other things specifically geared towards helping immigrants succeed. There's also the fact the Irish, Eastern Euro and Jewish immigrants had the benefit of looking a lot of like the white people who controlled the power structures in society so they (and especially their children) assimilated much more easily than blacks did. In fact, one of the ways that those groups made their way up in society was by embracing racism against blacks in solidarity with white Americans. Moreover, immigrants did not have to deal with the systemic racism and its consequences that blacks had to deal with. In other words, your comparison is a failure for several reasons.Not only will this help blacks succeed, but my bet is that it will most likely improve their perception as well, which will reduce instances of actual racism. Irish, Eastern European, and Jewish immigrants were all treated hostilely at one point in American history, and I don't think that was solved by singling those groups out and giving them extra benefits to make up for it.
I don't get offended easily. I also don't do superficial analyses of music. I see the music you're denigrating as a reflection of a culture with problems that some people don't want to address and would rather just treat themselves as superior to than look any deeper.I consider "**** bitches" to be slightly offensive. I consider it more offensive when I actually see people adopting that attitude. I don't think the attitude "that boy is cute" is particularly all that harmful in its own right. But to each their own.
one of the ways that those groups made their way up in society was by embracing racism against blacks in solidarity with white Americans.
As far as the "that boy is cute" line. Like I said, I don't find it offensive, but talk to certain feminists and you'll get a different perspective on why such airheadedness in mainstream music is perceived as a problem for improving perceptions of women.
Education funding largely depends on the wealth of the surrounding communities, so low income, mostly minority, people are denied equal educational opportunities, despite having greater needs due to the problems associated with poverty.
Yes, but not in the way people always think. I think holding minorities to a defacto lower standard of performance/expectation whether it comes to academics, college admissions or public assistance programs creates a negative feedback loop of sorts that causes a great many minorities to have lower expectations for themselves. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
1. That's a very (pervasive) surface analysis of hip-hop and rap. Rap, like every other form of art, tells stories. It is a reflection of the environment it is coming from. Therefore, to hold art responsible for inequality is wrongheaded. Such art may perpetuate problems that are already there, but it does not cause them. Therefore, the more important question to ask is why are the problems that rap and hip-hop describe there in the first place.
2. You are correct that some factions within hip-hop culture berate successful blacks as "too white." It is, however, inaccurate to generalize the culture as doing that as a whole. More than that, some people in White culture berate people who try to succeed as well. For examples, look at how many so-called "nerds" are treated in predominantly white environments. You can also look at how much of the right denigrates higher education. In other words, anti-success sentiments are pervasive in America, period. Because it isn't a uniquely Black American problem, it isn't a valid explanation for why black Americans, in particular, are unequal in society.
Institutional racism is most prevalent in law enforcement and education.
African and Hispanic Americans are much more likely to be stopped by police, more likely to be charged and receive stiffer sentences, especially for drug offense, despite evidence that they do not offend more than whites.
Education funding largely depends on the wealth of the surrounding communities, so low income, mostly minority, people are denied equal educational opportunities, despite having greater needs due to the problems associated with poverty.
Music / movies are both heavily influential on all cultures. To say they are meaningless to this topic is absolutely ridiculous.
Absolutely and most of it is directed at white people.
Nope. Lil B rapping, "Bitches suck my dick because I look like J.K. Rowling," is just as stupid as Katy Perry singing, "I kissed a girl and I liked it." They both are not only just dumb lyrics, but they both perpetuate ignorance surrounding women and sexuality. The only difference is that Lil B uses more explicit language which is only means that it offends some people's sensibilities.
Data from NYPD study - "The analysis of 2012 statistics provided by the Public Advocate’s office shows that the likelihood that an African American detained for search would be found in possession of a weapon was half that of a white person.
Specifically, the New York Police Department uncovered a weapon in one out of every 49 stops of white New Yorkers, while for Latinos a weapon was found for every 71 stops, and for African Americans that number was 93 stops.
Meanwhile, the likelihood that a stop of an African American New Yorker would yield contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped"
Depends on the students. They are all dealing with different types of privilege and disadvantage.
That's not what it means to me either.
Not nearly enough has been done.
People who are resentful of affirmative action have problems. They aren't my concern.
Education should be improved, I agree. Reducing crime should happen as well - although reducing crime isn't at much of a solution as it is a problem. As far as the family, that's not something the government should be involving itself in.
Actually, immigrants were singled out and given "extra benefits" when they got here. In fact, they are still getting benefits as there are programs, scholarships and other things specifically geared towards helping immigrants succeed. There's also the fact the Irish, Eastern Euro and Jewish immigrants had the benefit of looking a lot of like the white people who controlled the power structures in society so they (and especially their children) assimilated much more easily than blacks did. In fact, one of the ways that those groups made their way up in society was by embracing racism against blacks in solidarity with white Americans. Moreover, immigrants did not have to deal with the systemic racism and its consequences that blacks had to deal with. In other words, your comparison is a failure for several reasons.
I Kissed a Girl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaHow does Katy Perry singing, "I kissed a girl and I liked it" perpetuate ignorance surrounding women and sexuality? I don't see any misinformation in that lyric or any sexist attitudes. I hope you know that many women/girls enjoy kissing "girls." It seems to accurately reflect the feelings that many young women experience.
I don't get offended easily. I also don't do superficial analyses of music. I see the music you're denigrating as a reflection of a culture with problems that some people don't want to address and would rather just treat themselves as superior to than look any deeper.
As far as the "that boy is cute" line. Like I said, I don't find it offensive, but talk to certain feminists and you'll get a different perspective on why such airheadedness in mainstream music is perceived as a problem for improving perceptions of women.
Why don't people post LINKS???
That's why I said "The only difference is that Lil B uses more explicit language." Thank you for repeating what I said as if it was your own thought. As for the rest of your post, your analysis is just a surface one just like most analyses of rap music in comparison to other genres. Most people who denigrate rap, in particular, do so on the basis that rap is more explicit in its problematic content. The implication of such superficial analyses is that music is only a problem when it is overt with its problematic features. I don't agree with that so your comment that my position is an "utter failure" is meaningless to me. It's hard for me to take critics of rap seriously when they've only shown that they are capable of superficial analyses of music and when they don't adequately acknowledge problems in other genres. /shrug
beats me! I'll get on this windowdressing guy right away to provide a link! (And what kind of a moniker is "windowdressing?")
Data from NYPD study - "The analysis of 2012 statistics provided by the Public Advocate’s office shows that the likelihood that an African American detained for search would be found in possession of a weapon was half that of a white person.
Specifically, the New York Police Department uncovered a weapon in one out of every 49 stops of white New Yorkers, while for Latinos a weapon was found for every 71 stops, and for African Americans that number was 93 stops.
Meanwhile, the likelihood that a stop of an African American New Yorker would yield contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped"
Actually, words can have different meanings in different contexts so "nigger" can be racist in certain context and not in others. That's not even an argument. That's literally just a fact.The rap and hip-hop genres and the rap and hip-hop cultures are two different thing. I could point to Will Smith and note how upbeat and positive his rap is and the extreme lack of cuss words in his music. It's sub genres like gansta and others which are more pervasive than the tamer sub genres that have a holding back influence on many, especially those in the inner city and similar situations. Of course there then there is the tendency of such styles to to promote negative words and ideas like "nigger". Seriously, you can't claim "nigger" to be a racist word and then use it left and right.
Actually, you did generalize the culture as whole. You said, "it is the rap/hip-hop culture that shuns learning and real work and berates blacks who are trying as being "too white" for trying to succeed". You described the culture as one that shins learning and real work and berates blacks as being "too white." That's a generalization. I corrected it.You'll note that I did not generalized the culture as a whole. I noted it's influence and asked how much weight does it have.
I don't believe you're unaware of how common denigrating higher education as "liberal indoctrination" is among conservatives, so you can find your own "samples".I'd like some samples of the "right" denigrating higher education.
Why don't people post LINKS???
No, superficial things are still reflections of society. It's actually a good thing to recognize that and look beyond the surface of things to get a better understanding of where they are coming from. In any case, thank you for letting me know that you don't do critical thinking. It make a lot of sense and it will save me some time.Superficial music is meant to be judged superficially. Deep music is meant to be judged deeply. If a superficial song isn't offensive on a superficial level, it isn't my place to make a spectacle of myself talking about how a superficial song secretly has some subconscious, deep meaning that reflects a flawed society.
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