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Columbus is a controversial historical figure who is widely viewed as terrible. Every year we question whether we should continue to have a day to celebrate his discovery. But as with most stories, his bad deeds have been exaggerated to make him fit the role of a villain.
My impression is that the problem is/was not Columbus, but the brutality of those who followed him, to say nothing of the germs they brought. As I remember Mexico some years ago, Columbus was not considered the villain, Cortes was.
Nope, Columbus was pretty bad himself, taking slaves, putting natives into forced labor camps that killed thousands upon thousands of them, etc.
Nope, Columbus was pretty bad himself, taking slaves, putting natives into forced labor camps that killed thousands upon thousands of them, etc.
The video suggests that is not true. Do you have sources that indicate otherwise? Mexico is pretty proud of it's Indian heritage, indicated in murals and the name they give Oct 12, "Dia de la Raza," which obviously celebrates their mixture of Spanish and indigenous heritage.
Ahem:
Sadly the truth about Columbus does not tend to get taught in school (at least not until recent years)
From his journal the very DAY that they first encountered the natives of the islands: "They should be good servants .... I, our Lord being pleased, will take hence, at the time of my departure, six natives for your Highnesses."
two days later he wrote: "with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them."
(here's what came before that quote to show just how effed up a "catholic" he was:
"They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things ... They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features .... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane. ... They would make fine servants. ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want"....... Yup, they were friendly strong folks who were willing to trade and help them, so hey, let's enslave them!)
And in a letter to one of his patrons the next year he wrote :"their Highnesses may see that I shall give them as much gold as they need .... and slaves as many as they shall order to be shipped."
And his second voyage he did just that, taking far more (hundreds) than the 6 he took his first voyage..
Sure sounds like a slave trader too me...
And yeah between his first contact and the end of his stint as Governor he and his men had exterminated at LEAST several hundred thousand (some estimates are at a million or more) of the native peoples through war and forced labor camps. Thats genocide.
So y'all trying to make him into an okay guy can go eff yourselves.
"In Defense of Columbus: An Exaggerated Evil" from Knowing Better 12/10/17.
Someone posted a different video on a political topic from this Vlogger "Knowing Better" which I found interesting (if not actually agreeing with him).
However, I've subsequently watched a few others since then from time to time. I just discovered this one today, and found myself more in agreement with this historical analysis than I was by the first politcal video I encountered.
Essentially he debunks many of the denigrating assertions about Columbus' ignorance, lack of math/sailing/map reading skills, brutality, and also the allegations of responsibility for the genocide of Amerinidians. I especially enjoyed how he tore apart the "Adam Ruins Everything - Columbus" video.
I offer it for the Forum's education and entertainment.
Besides everything else, Columbus was so far off in his estimate of the size of the world that every educated person in Europe knew he couldn't have sailed to Asia and back in the time of his voyage. Yet he went to his grave convinced he'd gone to the Indies.
Aaannd, apparently you didn't watch the video. :coffeepap:
Anyone defending and trying to whitewash the evil cretin that was Columbus is a slavery-loving piece of crap, in my book.
Sadly the truth about Columbus does not tend to get taught in school (at least not until recent years)
From his journal the very DAY that they first encountered the natives of the islands: "They should be good servants .... I, our Lord being pleased, will take hence, at the time of my departure, six natives for your Highnesses."
two days later he wrote: "with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them."
Aaannd, apparently you didn't watch the video. :coffeepap:
Besides being wrong, apparently you didn't watch the video.Anyone defending and trying to whitewash the evil cretin that was Columbus is a slavery-loving piece of crap, in my book.
Sadly the truth about Columbus does not tend to get taught in school (at least not until recent years)
From his journal the very DAY that they first encountered the natives of the islands: "They should be good servants .... I, our Lord being pleased, will take hence, at the time of my departure, six natives for your Highnesses."
two days later he wrote: "with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them."
(here's what came before that quote to show just how effed up a "catholic" he was:
"They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things ... They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features .... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane. ... They would make fine servants. ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want"....... Yup, they were friendly strong folks who were willing to trade and help them, so hey, let's enslave them!)
And in a letter to one of his patrons the next year he wrote :"their Highnesses may see that I shall give them as much gold as they need .... and slaves as many as they shall order to be shipped."
And his second voyage he did just that, taking far more (hundreds) than the 6 he took his first voyage..
Sure sounds like a slave trader too me...
And yeah between his first contact and the end of his stint as Governor he and his men had exterminated at LEAST several hundred thousand (some estimates are at a million or more) of the native peoples through war and forced labor camps. Thats genocide.
So y'all trying to make him into an okay guy can go eff yourselves.
Besides being wrong, apparently you didn't watch the video.
"In Defense of Columbus: An Exaggerated Evil" from Knowing Better 12/10/17.
Someone posted a different video on a political topic from this Vlogger "Knowing Better" which I found interesting (if not actually agreeing with him).
However, I've subsequently watched a few others since then from time to time. I just discovered this one today, and found myself more in agreement with this historical analysis than I was by the first politcal video I encountered.
Essentially he debunks many of the denigrating assertions about Columbus' ignorance, lack of math/sailing/map reading skills, brutality, and also the allegations of responsibility for the genocide of Amerinidians. I especially enjoyed how he tore apart the "Adam Ruins Everything - Columbus" video.
I offer it for the Forum's education and entertainment.
Besides everything else, Columbus was so far off in his estimate of the size of the world that every educated person in Europe knew he couldn't have sailed to Asia and back in the time of his voyage. Yet he went to his grave convinced he'd gone to the Indies.
Columbus was credited with discovering America, at least the first European to do so, hence Columbus Day. But we've known since 1960 the Vikings beat him here in around the year 1000. L’Anse aux Meadows proves that.
Basically that Adam Ruins Everything was wrong about everything in that video (as they usually are). Columbus has surviving correspondence with Toscanelli that really explains the whole thing. Toscanelli was one of the greatest cartographers of his day, but his maps overestimated the length of Asia by about 5,000 miles. Columbus did go with a smaller circumference, but that's not why he was wrong; Toscanelli's map (the sort of projection used by 'every educated person in Europe') had Asia stretching to where NA currently is, and Japan where the Mexico actually is. Toscanelli didn't think that Columbus was stupid, he wrote letters to him and sent him maps and encouraged his journey. Columbus did not go to his grave thinking he'd gone to the Indies, it was clear rather quickly that he hadn't.
Here's Toscanelli's map, used by Columbus, laid over the actual world:View attachment 67254650
Actually, Toscanelli was not a cartographer. He was an astrologer, mathematician, and Cosmographer. He spent years studying the Greek mathematical works, and the Greeks had known since the 6th century BCE that the Earth was round. Even Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle described the planet as a sphere.
The first to be known to have calculated the circumference is Eratosthenes in around 180 BCE. And he came up with 44,000 km. That is off by being 15% to large (actual is 40,075 km). And further confusion came into play because over the centuries the unit of measurement he used (the "stade") changed length, so by 100 CE this was translating to 46,100 km.
Columbus was using the then commonly accepted circumference of around 30,000 km, which combined with the inaccuracies of Toscanelli ended up having an entire continent appearing on the way. His miscalculation on the size of Asia is believed to have come from the limited information in Europe of the actual size of Asia. That dates all the way back to Strabo (64 BCE to 24 CE), which had Asia-Africa-Europe being more like a large ellipsis. And when Toscanelli tried to update this with more modern measurements he way over-estimated the size of Asia.
Actually, Toscanelli was not a cartographer. He was an astrologer, mathematician, and Cosmographer. He spent years studying the Greek mathematical works, and the Greeks had known since the 6th century BCE that the Earth was round. Even Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle described the planet as a sphere.
The first to be known to have calculated the circumference is Eratosthenes in around 180 BCE. And he came up with 44,000 km. That is off by being 15% to large (actual is 40,075 km). And further confusion came into play because over the centuries the unit of measurement he used (the "stade") changed length, so by 100 CE this was translating to 46,100 km.
Columbus was using the then commonly accepted circumference of around 30,000 km, which combined with the inaccuracies of Toscanelli ended up having an entire continent appearing on the way. His miscalculation on the size of Asia is believed to have come from the limited information in Europe of the actual size of Asia. That dates all the way back to Strabo (64 BCE to 24 CE), which had Asia-Africa-Europe being more like a large ellipsis. And when Toscanelli tried to update this with more modern measurements he way over-estimated the size of Asia.
The biggest problem with the Vikings discovery of Vinland is that they did not stay.
The Vinland colonies were only occupied for around 100 years, from around 1000 CE to 1100 CE. Then they were abandoned. The last verified reports of Nordic occupation of Vinland was around 1120. The biggest difference with Columbus is that he started a multi-national wave of exploration and colonization that continued into the modern era without a break.
The same of any possible other pre-Columbian discovery possibilities. Phoenicians, Japanese, Chinese, Polynesian, there are many other theories that they might have also "discovered" America. But none of them either established long-term trade and connections, or made lasting impressions on the local culture to have been considered significant even if they did happen.
That is what makes all the difference in the world.
Thanks; I find these old maps really interesting, and it's really fascinating how often people overexaggerate the ignorance of the past.
Unrelated aside: Libya T H I C C
I liked the old maps that had sea serpents on them
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