I'm calling it: Trump will never be able to broker peace between Ukraine and Russia

[Airyaman]

Neither does Michael McFaul.

If peace means Ukraine has to surrender to Russia, neither do I.

 

[Airyaman]

according to whom? the Russian hoax crowd?

According to reality. Sorry you can't see the naked MAGA emperor.

lol. yes you have TDS,, run with it

TDS is something weak debaters use when they can't make any arguments.

 

[multivita-man]

If peace means Ukraine has to surrender to Russia, neither do I.

Ukraine should be a neutral country, which is what Yanukovych wanted Ukraine to be until he was deposed (oh, wait, I mean until he voluntarily resigned and left the country at the request of violent ultra-nationalists with whom the US and UK were already working). The US and Europe national security state won't accept Ukrainian neutrality.

 

[Airyaman]

Ukraine should be a neutral country, which is what Yanukovych wanted Ukraine to be until he was deposed (oh, wait, I mean until he voluntarily resigned and left the country at the request of violent ultra-nationalists with whom the US and UK were already working). The US and Europe national security state won't accept Ukrainian neutrality.

Ukraine's neutrality would accomplish nothing. Putin wants to bring the old USSR back, not literally, but he does want those countries to be part of Russia. And to do that, he has to conquer Ukraine. Being neutral would not stop Putin from invading again. In fact, it would just make it all the easier for Russia to defeat them.

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/putin-aims-to-bring-back-lost-colonies-of-ussr-with-ukraine-war-estonia-fm-124022300436_1.html

"Putin has said already years ago, what is his plan. Restoration of imperium. So this is Russia
wants to get back lost colonies. This is exactly what it is. And it didn't start, like two years ago. It
started already with Georgia 2008. Georgia is partly occupied. And with Ukraine, it started 2014.
And now it's a full scale war ongoing. And how we see from our perspective as a bordering
country, and we were occupied 50 years from Soviet Union as well, is that Russia wants to get
back the colonies. They want to get back as well. Baltic states, they want to get back Poland, they
want to get back Finland and so on," he added.

 

[multivita-man]

Ukraine's neutrality would accomplish nothing.

For Austria, it accomplished European integration and not being mired in a war that's ruining their country.

Putin wants to bring the old USSR back, and to do that, he has to conquer Ukraine. Being neutral would not stop Putin from invading again. In fact, it would just make it all the easier for Russia to defeat them.

Putin wants influence over Russia's old neighborhood. I don't think anyone can deny that. But influence doesn't have to mean total occupation, nor would it necessarily. We're just not good at negotiating. I'm not saying Putin's innocent in all this. He is a legitimately-accused war criminal, after all, but we're the ones who refuse to negotiate with our holier-than-thou nonsense. The reason the West can't accept neutrality is because too many foreign policy 'experts' have invested too much of themselves and their prestige in the Ukrainian 'dignity' project.

 

[anatta]

According to reality. Sorry you can't see the naked MAGA emperor.

you claimed "appeasement" I guess because you dont understand diplomacy.

TDS is something weak debaters use when they can't make any arguments.

It's a catch all term for those who say stuff like appeasement, but cant define it

 

[anatta]

Ukraine should be a neutral country, which is what Yanukovych wanted Ukraine to be until he was deposed (oh, wait, I mean until he voluntarily resigned and left the country at the request of violent ultra-nationalists with whom the US and UK were already working). The US and Europe national security state won't accept Ukrainian neutrality.

It goes back to NATO expansion as well. there are plenty documents that show Gorby was promised no NATO expansion past East Germany
The "security state" yes, primarily driven by the CIA. Those cretins would not just be happy winning the Cold War. They had to treat Russia
(not the USSR) as an existential threat instead of coming to terms with multi-polarism

 

[Airyaman]

you claimed "appeasement" I guess because you dont understand diplomacy.

What "diplomacy"? Trump has often said what Ukraine needs to do, but has not made a single demand for concessions from Russia.

That is textbook appeasement.

It's a catch all term for those who say stuff like appeasement, but cant define it

Appeasement is at one time halting US aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Appeasement is calling Putin a strong leader. Appeasement is saying Ukraine started the war. Appeasement is willingness to cede Ukrainian territories to Russia. Appeasement is suggesting that sanctions on Russia may be lifted. Appeasement is hosting a murderous invader in your country, rolling out the red carpet for him, clapping as he walks your way, and then giving him a ride in the Beast. Appeasement is trying to cut off Ukraine's ability to strike deeper into Russia.

Now, what do you think appeasement is?

 

[anatta]

What "diplomacy"? Trump has often said what Ukraine needs to do, but has not made a single demand for concessions from Russia.

That is textbook appeasement.

He just imposed secondary sanctions on Russian energy to India. Trump is not in the position o make demands
He is there o facilitate negotiations between the 2

Appeasement is at one time halting US aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine.

aid was quicky restored with the minerals deal, it was pressure after Z's first performance at the WH when he was thrown out

Appeasement is calling Putin a strong leader.

meaningless

Appeasement is saying Ukraine started the war.

misstatement

Appeasement is willingness to cede Ukrainian territories to Russia.

that's what happens when you are losing territory in a war if you want a negotiated settlement

Appeasement is suggesting that sanctions on Russia may be lifted.

that would be part of negotiations, not before

Appeasement is hosting a murderous invader in your country, rolling out the red carpet for him, clapping as he walks your way, and then giving him a ride in the Beast.

Once again you need to learn diplomatic niceties,

Appeasement is trying to cut off Ukraine's ability to strike deeper into Russia.

Trump approved ATACMs -what are you talking about?

 

[Airyaman]

He just imposed secondary sanctions on Russian energy to India. Trump is not in the position o make demands

Lol, so the solution is to make US companies and consumers pay more for goods and services from India?

That'll do the trick! Ol' Putin is shaking in his boots over that one!

He is there o facilitate negotiations between the 2

aid was quicky restored with the minerals deal, it was pressure after Z's first performance at the WH when he was thrown out

Yes, Trump is good at making demands of Ukraine, but none for Russia.

Appeasement.

meaningless

misstatement

that's what happens when you are losing territory in a war if you want a negotiated settlement

It is illegal for Ukraine to cede lands to anyone. It's literally unconstitutional.

that would be part of negotiations, not before

And yet Trump has said it. That is appeasement.

Once again you need to learn diplomatic niceties,

Oh, "niceties" for the murderous kidnapping thug?

Appeasement.

Trump approved ATACMs -what are you talking about?

Pentagon has blocked Ukraine from striking deep inside Russia – report

Wall Street Journal says move is part of Trump administration’s effort to get Putin into peace talks

www.theguardian.com

 

[Roadvirus]

As Trump pointed out, Putin made a concession by agreeing to meet in Alaska. His willing to give here should earn Trump a oibel prize for something or another. Or at least an Emmy.

He's getting a Razzie. He should just accept that as inevitable.

 

[Roadvirus]

Biden was stupid on steroids due to dementia. The point is Biden did nothing other than meekly acquiescing to Zelensky's demands for weapons

How dare Biden give Ukraine weapons to protect themselves!

 

[Roadvirus]

According to reality. Sorry you can't see the naked MAGA emperor.

I hope we never see the Emperor naked.

 

[Roadvirus]

Ukraine should be a neutral country

Ukraine has the right to be whatever it wants to be.

If it wants to be a NATO member, they have that right.

 

[multivita-man]

Ukraine has the right to be whatever it wants to be.

If it wants to be a NATO member, they have that right.

Does Mexico have the right to host the Chinese and Russian navies and air forces and point "defensive" missile systems in our direction? What about Cuba?

 

[Middleground]

I don't care if he is as long as we see results in peace around the globe. I disagree with your opinion but it's really about results. At least he's working at it unlike Obama's award before he'd done anything other than manage to get elected.

If you don't care about time length, can you please tell Cankels McTaco Tits to kindly shut the **** up about it, then? Does it not concern you that the leader of the free world has made such incredibly bold and asinine claims like ending the war on day one? Don't be so easy on him for that stupidity.

 

[MAGAnificent]

How dare Biden give Ukraine weapons to protect themselves!

While the Europeans expect payment for what they send. Initially I did not have a problem with us sending weapons, except that Biden and the Europeans put conditions on how they could be used. That's why it has become a forever war unless there is a peace deal.