IG report actually confirms what we have been saying.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

Lutherf · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

Right. It's interesting that the Horowitz report seems to recognize all kinds of poor decision making (or possibly biased decision making) but blames a policy framework that allows for that kind of decision making instead of blaming the decision makers for choosing a path that they should have known was problematic.

The most damning thing I read in the report is with regard to the FISA renewals. Even after it became known that information used as probable cause for the warrant was inaccurate, incomplete and/or unsubstantiated that information was STILL used in the renewal applications. That doesn't show mere incompetence or a "policy shortfall". That shows outright corruption and, combined with other factors, implies that political bias of some form may have impacted the investigation.

Moderate Right · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

Yes. It really makes no sense whatsoever that there was clear bias on the lower part of the ladder, up to and including the intentional falsification of records to present a misleading report to the FISA courts, and then turn around and say that there was no bias in the decision to spy on a presidential political campaign. The courts had false information. Durham is still investigating and there is more to come.

WillyPete · Dec 10, 2019

So how many indictments and how many years in prison do you guys think we'll see from this, when the dust settles?

Is there going to be a big wave of openings in the FBI? I expect they have good benefits.

Mach · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

That didn't impact the initiation or results of the investigation.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

You're just repeating what you've been saying, the report doesn't confirm this, despite your illogical claims that it does.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

Which means again, for the second time, the report opposes what you've been saying, the opposite of "confirms" as you so illogically have claimed.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

So not-critical that the IG determined they did not change the validity of the initiation or execution of the investigations...the opposite of what you've been claiming.

I think we can see the pattern here. After "lazy, illogical, and apparently incompetent thinking on the matter", you're simply going to claim the opposite of the what the report showed.

Just like we've been saying all along...
I really am astounding at the absurdity of your post, its like the posting of an 5 year old who got caught stealing cookies, and then goes on deny it, while he immediately then admits it.

MrWonka · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
...

I love this... Your own auto-signature claims Facts don't care about your feelings yet you want to cover up the facts proving Donald Trump is guilty because you think the investigators had the wrong feelings.

You're basically trying to get Trump out of a DUI by arguing that the stop was unlawful in the first place. You've given up trying to argue that Trump wasn't drunk off his ass while driving because it's indefensible so you want to argue the cops had no basis for stopping him. Well I got some bad news for you, the cops had ever reason to stop him, and even if you don't like some of the tactics they used in the investigation the fact remains. Trump was Drunk off his Ass Behind the wheel of the Presidency. He did it. He's guilty.

I don't really mind so much if somebodies lawyer uses improper procedure bull**** to get someone out of a speeding ticket or even a DUI. Not the end of the world, but when you're the President of the United ****ing States and your guilty of abusing the power of your office to rig elections I don't really give a flying **** how you got caught you needed to get caught.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

Lutherf said:
Right. It's interesting that the Horowitz report seems to recognize all kinds of poor decision making (or possibly biased decision making) but blames a policy framework that allows for that kind of decision making instead of blaming the decision makers for choosing a path that they should have known was problematic.

The most damning thing I read in the report is with regard to the FISA renewals. Even after it became known that information used as probable cause for the warrant was inaccurate, incomplete and/or unsubstantiated that information was STILL used in the renewal applications. That doesn't show mere incompetence or a "policy shortfall". That shows outright corruption and, combined with other factors, implies that political bias of some form may have impacted the investigation.

Yes agreed. I had to sit and think about the report for a while. The ig going were you bias in your methods and you go no but continue to show bias in your procedures and how you handle information shows that you are indeed bias.

The ig report shows that the fbi was a complete cluster in all things. I can't believe that to be the case.

However this goes to show and gives more credibility to Flynn's lawyers who have filed claims that the fbi excluded and changed testimony to show Flynn said stuff that he didn't.

It seems that stzok is the master of changing documents and information for it to mean something else.

We have an fbi lawyer that submitted fraudulent documents as well. The amount of corruption behind this is amazing.

Comey's McCabe should be very worried.

Simon W. Moon · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.
1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.
2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.
3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.
A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.
This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.
In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.
B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.
Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.
The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.
The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

The IG report should end the myth that the investigation of the Trump campaign was a political move by Obama. [ It won't, but it should.]
The IG report lays out the evidence that the FBI et al were right to investigate the four Trump campaign personnel who were convicted of felonies.

The fact that the four were convicted should also be counted as evidence that LEOs were right to investigate these guys.
Not only was there enough evidence to start an investigation, there was enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys were crooked.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

WillyPete said:
So how many indictments and how many years in prison do you guys think we'll see from this, when the dust settles?

Is there going to be a big wave of openings in the FBI? I expect they have good benefits.

Technically there are multiple charges to be levied against these people from perjury to witness tampering to evidence corruption. All of which are federal felonies. They are looking at 10 years per charge and no one will serve a day because we have a two tiered justice system and the political cronies will protect their own.

Simon W. Moon · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
Technically there are multiple charges to be levied against these people from perjury to witness tampering to evidence corruption. All of which are federal felonies. They are looking at 10 years per charge and no one will serve a day because we have a two tiered justice system and the political cronies will protect their own.

Rank and file FBI guys are political cronies now?

Word used to have meanings.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

MrWonka said:
I love this... Your own auto-signature claims Facts don't care about your feelings yet you want to cover up the facts proving Donald Trump is guilty because you think the investigators had the wrong feelings.

You're basically trying to get Trump out of a DUI by arguing that the stop was unlawful in the first place. You've given up trying to argue that Trump wasn't drunk off his ass while driving because it's indefensible so you want to argue the cops had no basis for stopping him. Well I got some bad news for you, the cops had ever reason to stop him, and even if you don't like some of the tactics they used in the investigation the fact remains. Trump was Drunk off his Ass Behind the wheel of the Presidency. He did it. He's guilty.

I don't really mind so much if somebodies lawyer uses improper procedure bull**** to get someone out of a speeding ticket or even a DUI. Not the end of the world, but when you're the President of the United ****ing States and your guilty of abusing the power of your office to rig elections I don't really give a flying **** how you got caught you needed to get caught.

Ignoring facts of the case. Lying about testimony, using known unreliable and down right false information to continue what is now an illegal investigation. Yeah keep ignore facts that is what leftist do.

The rest of your post is a red herring.
Trump was guilty of nothing.

chuckiechan · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

It’s because they are all buddies. They go to elite schools together, introduce their children to each other’s children in the hopes of cementing their own career paths. The lawyers hope to be judges, and you won’t get there by stepping on your betters toes. They attend the same cocktail parties, share jokes and gossip. They exist by convincing politicians that “I can help you stay in power”.

When one crosses the line, it never seems so bad because “I knew Peter for twenty years.”, “His heart was in the right place”, “He’s done more good than harm” - all arguments you will never hear when you are in the crosshairs for lying through your teeth and trying to overthrow an elected administration.

It is my hope that Barr and Durham will bring justice back to the elites who have ****ed up this country to get a share of multinational’s political action budgets and CEO’s bonuses.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

Simon W. Moon said:
The IG report should end the myth that the investigation of the Trump campaign was a political move by Obama. [ It won't, but it should.]
The IG report lays out the evidence that the FBI et al were right to investigate the four Trump campaign personnel who were convicted of felonies.

actually it says the opposite and actuallynitnsaid that if the fbi had been honest in reporting testimony and where it got its information then the entire investigation falls apart.

So do you think it is ok for fbi agents to lie and use bad and wrong information from an unvetted source that had built in bias against trump as means to investigate?

No logical or reasoned person would. They would see that as bias and politically motivated. They would also see multiple instances of federal felonies committed by a law enforcement agency.

The fact that the four were convicted should also be counted as evidence that LEOs were right to investigate these guys.
Not only was there enough evidence to start an investigation, there was enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys were crooked.

Flynn has not been convicted yet and his lawyers have produced evidence and there are other cases where fbi agents changed witness testimony to make it looked like they lied.

This is consistent with the ig report that shows fbi agents left out critical pieces of information in order to continue their warrant claims in which had those facts been included

Why do you condone such unethical and down right illegal activities from a group that is supposed to up hold the law.

ludin · Dec 10, 2019

chuckiechan said:
It’s because they are all buddies. They go to elite schools together, introduce their children to each other’s children in the hopes of cementing their own career paths. The lawyers hope to be judges, and you won’t get there by stepping on your betters toes. They attend the same cocktail parties, share jokes and gossip. They exist by convincing politicians that “I can help you stay in power”.

When one crosses the line, it never seems so bad because “I knew Peter for twenty years.”, “His heart was in the right place”, “He’s done more good than harm” - all arguments you will never hear when you are in the crosshairs for lying through you teeth and trying to overthrow an elected administration.

It is my hope that Barr and Durham will bring justice back to the elites who have ****ed up this country to get a share of multinational political action budget and CEO’s bonuses.

Barry and Durham need to crack this egg open. It is time to return our government back to the people.

Obscurity · Dec 10, 2019

Don't Worry, Angry Pornstache Man and his bewarted Monarchist Theocrat, "AG" Barr, will save the day from Obama corruption.

less right · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

And yet we're supposed to believe Trump didn't attempt a quid pro quo because he wasn't stupid enough to use the words "quid pro quo".

Your logic is inconsistent since it doesn't apply to the President. Therefore it isn't logic.

poweRob · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

So now this is the new talking point tactic. The IG supports you? :lol:

Because all day yesterday, the trumpettes were complaining about it from the get-go while Barr was attacking the IG and telling us that we need to wait for Durham. NOW... the IG report is being heralded by you guys? Too funny. I guess it took a day to figure out the correct talking points to run with.

less right · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
Flynn has not been convicted yet...

Flynn already pled guilty two years ago.

He's trying to weasel out now, but barring (no pun intended) his slithery retreat from the truth, the only thing that remains is his sentencing.

Grim17 · Dec 10, 2019

MrWonka said:
You're basically trying to get Trump out of a DUI by arguing that the stop was unlawful in the first place.

What BS... The investigation is over and there was no crime, so saying this is a "fruit of the poisonous tree" attempt makes no sense at all.

You don't attempt to have a case tossed out that is already over and you won.

.

Grim17 · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
Why do you condone such unethical and down right illegal activities from a group that is supposed to up hold the law.

Isn't it obvious?

That's what you get from people who's political philosophy centers around "the ends justify the means".

Cardinal · Dec 10, 2019

Ludin does this all the time.

Report: “You’re wrong.”
Ludin: “A ha! I’m right!”

Simon W. Moon · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
actually it says the opposite

Where in the report does it say that it was a political move by Obama?

The report says that the LEOs were justified in starting an investigation.
If the whole thing was a political move by Obama, how could the IG find that justified?

ludin said:
and actuallynitnsaid that if the fbi had been honest in reporting testimony and where it got its information then the entire investigation falls apart.

What do you mean when you use the phrase "the entire investigation falls apart"?
The investigation gathered enough evidence to convict people.
So you must mean something different than the investigation becomes unable to find evidence.

ludin said:
So do you think it is ok for fbi agents to lie and use bad and wrong information from an unvetted source that had built in bias against trump as means to investigate?

I already quoted the section which says that the Steele dossier was unknown at the time the investigation was begun.

Can you quote the section which says "wrong information from an unvetted source that had built in bias against trump" was used "as means to investigate"
Also, can you explain what you mean when you say "as means to investigate"?

ludin said:
No logical or reasoned person would. They would see that as bias and politically motivated. They would also see multiple instances of federal felonies committed by a law enforcement agency.

Do you expect that there will be charges for all these plain crimes?
Or will Trump_DoJ and the GOP Senate treat this like the Pizzagate crimes, the Uranium One crimes, the Biden crimes, etc.?

ludin said:
Flynn has not been convicted yet and his lawyers have produced evidence and there are other cases where fbi agents changed witness testimony to make it looked like they lied.

Flynn is a convicted felon because he pled guilty to a felony.
Feel free to amuse yourself trying to make the case that Flynn is not convicted of crimes.
Google up some support for that position if you like.

ludin said:
This is consistent with the ig report that shows fbi agents left out critical pieces of information in order to continue their warrant claims in which had those facts been included
Why do you condone such unethical and down right illegal activities from a group that is supposed to up hold the law.

You want to see it as condoning such activities.
I see it as doubting reports of such activities.

WillyPete · Dec 10, 2019

ludin said:
Technically there are multiple charges to be levied against these people from perjury to witness tampering to evidence corruption. All of which are federal felonies. They are looking at 10 years per charge and no one will serve a day because we have a two tiered justice system and the political cronies will protect their own.

Ok. Which tier were all of Trump's ex-staff on?

marke · Dec 13, 2019

ludin said:
I have had to sit and think about this logically for a while. If one understands the role of the IG which is to point out mistakes in procedure and conduct but at the same time protect the organization itself then we have to look harder at the evidence presented.

1. The IG found major mistakes in the FBI handling of this case that goes all the way up the chain.

2. While the IG claims no bias simply because no one is stupid enough to admit bias. We can see bias clearly present in the facts laid out.

3. The IG also says there was no spying, but again the facts laid out show another story.

A. There was rampant deception used by FBI agents and leadership regarding what was put into the FISA court warrants. Critical pieces of information from conversations had by undercover operatives were not included.

This shows a clear line of bias and fraud and witness tampering as this information was exclusively used to continue what would have been a busted case.

In fact had the comments been included the FISA court would have shot down the warrants. This deception went up the entire fbi chain all the way to the leadership.

B. The fbi extensively used steele as a source even though it was completely known at the time he was a bust and his information completely unverified. Even one of the sources testified that steele embellished a lot of things he was told and most of it was hearsay and not fact.

Again this shows bias from the fbi to push a document that was not verified and to continue to allow undercover spy operations against people in the trump campaign.

The IG claims of we don't question discretionary actions is bunk. That is his job to question why those actions were taken and what reason they were taken.

The people that were fired deserved to be fired and they are lucky that they are not arrested on multiple federal crimes.

The facts are incontrovertible. Some individual or several individuals face some serious time in prison for these crimes.

j brown's body · Dec 13, 2019

Lutherf said:
Right. It's interesting that the Horowitz report seems to recognize all kinds of poor decision making (or possibly biased decision making) but blames a policy framework that allows for that kind of decision making instead of blaming the decision makers for choosing a path that they should have known was problematic.

The most damning thing I read in the report is with regard to the FISA renewals. Even after it became known that information used as probable cause for the warrant was inaccurate, incomplete and/or unsubstantiated that information was STILL used in the renewal applications. That doesn't show mere incompetence or a "policy shortfall". That shows outright corruption and, combined with other factors, implies that political bias of some form may have impacted the investigation.

Like with so much we see these days, such as the actions of Hunter Biden, it never meant anything to the GOP until it became politically expedient to care.

IG report actually confirms what we have been saying.

ludin

Lutherf

Moderate Right

WillyPete

The sound of one chao mooing.

Mach

MrWonka

ludin

Simon W. Moon

ludin

Simon W. Moon

ludin

chuckiechan

ludin

ludin

Obscurity

less right

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996

less right

Grim17

Battle Ready

Grim17

Battle Ready

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides

Simon W. Moon

WillyPete

The sound of one chao mooing.

marke

j brown's body

"A Soros-backed animal"

IG report actually confirms what we have been saying.

The sound of one chao mooing.

USMC 1988-1996

Battle Ready

Battle Ready

Respected On All Sides

The sound of one chao mooing.

"A Soros-backed animal"

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency