The right end of the political spectrum has gotten worked up lately, more worked up and agitated than I can remember people getting in a long time. My fear is this: imagine that Obama gets health care reform through congress. We have people at town hall meetings, one of our oldest democratic traditions, shouting out congressmen. We have people bringing guns to political events (that aren't even gun related), and going on about the blood of tyrants. When I see how much hatred and anger is on the far right at this moment, it makes me scared that if they don't get their way they might turn violent. We're talking about violence on a scale larger than a few nuts here and there. Does anyone else see the same thing happening?
Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports
Zogby International
Many Americans Doubt Costs, Benefits of Healthcare Reform
Try using real polling companies instead of left-wing propaganda companies.
So your premise is that the 44% of Americans in the Rasmussen poll, that strongly oppose healthcare reform will now be commenting violence against the 24% who Strongly Favor it.
Kinda make one go Hhmm…wondering what the other 32% will be doing doesn’t it?
that is why you need to put more money into the system. If the system has more money than no one need be cut. And can I see the Obama quote about illegal immigrants?
But she'd be eligible under his new system, so why is this a problem?
She's currently tied up in court with Sacramento Regional Transit. Needless to say they're going to fight having to pay off as much as needed. And I doubt she, being a student working two jobs at the mall, would be able to afford any insurance.
Can you debate here without being insulting? kthx.
Really? How do you figure? I don't see people at rallies with signs quoting Krauthammer. I don't see the RNC chair apologizing to Crystal.
I never said they were equivalent. Don't put words in my mouth, its rude. And I listened to Limbaugh every day for several months, I know where he stands. I've only seen some Beck, but I've seen enough to get his stances, so don't judge that which you don't know.
And Steele apologizing to Limbaugh?
Not to mention a conspiracy theorist, but that's neither here nor there.
I do live in California, in a midsized city that's fairly liberal, and I've heard very few people blame all opposition on racism. I think you're hearing what you want to hear here.
Putting words in my mouth Don? Where you got that is where you get most of your slander.... noted. BTW.... as far as I've seen, no one has been "commenting" violence. :lamo
Reread my post crunch and think real hard maybe, a light bulb will go off.
Why would its legality be relevent? Because a gun is a tool for physical force, and in a situation like this can be used to convey the threat of physical force if the owner doesn't get their way. No one is saying it isn't legal, but not all legal things are a good idea. Let me ask you, if you wanted to intimidate people into getting your way politically, isn't a gun a good way to do it?Then quit being a political hack and acting like one side is acting any better than the other. Or that either side has in the last 20 years.
Stolen Election 2000
How George W. Bush Stole The 2000 Election greg Palast Part 1 of 2 - Democratic Underground
"A group of south Minneapolis neighbors that wanted to get involved in the presidential race has produced its own campaign commercial. The spot has Osama bin Laden endorsing the Bush-Cheney re-election effort." - MPR: Minneapolis neighbors hope to be players in campaign ad battle
So why would someone carrying a legal weapon strike fear in your heart? Why would it even matter, it is legal. :doh
None of the above.
The American public is a bunch of ******s right and left. Your argument is a good example.
Why didn't she have her own insurance.
Have you given her any money?
Has she approached her church or community organizations?
Using a single persons bad results of the refusal to plan for bad occurrences as a reason to change the entire society she lives in is absurd. Changing the entire system to accommodate less than 10% who cannot or will not use the system that exists is absurd.
If moving a small bit further away from pure capitalism will help us become a better society, one with a basic safety net, I'm ok with that. There's nothing sacred about lassaiz-faire capitalism.This is just a dishonest opportunistic attempt to move this country further toward socialism and away from capitalism.
You made a claim that was factually untrue. Either you lied or you didn't properly research before making a claim about another poster. Which was it?It was you that used the "lie" word. I simply insinuated that you may well not be informed on the matter. Guess I was right. Were you trolling for me to call you a liar?
You used Rush and Beck in the same sentence with the same descriptor. This more than infers an "equivalency". I did not put the words in your mouth; you did.
Did I use a generalization about O's opponents being called racist? So sorry. Just passing on what I heard from my barber and Jimmy Carter.
donc said:Meanwhile back to the OP; if Health Care Reform Passes, Will Things Get Violent?
No! For the following reason.
65% favor, not only insurance reform but a public option, according to this latest poll out.Only 26% apposed it,hardly enough to worry about.
New York Times/CBS News Poll: Confusion Over Health Care - The New York Times
Why would its legality be relevent? Because a gun is a tool for physical force, and in a situation like this can be used to convey the threat of physical force if the owner doesn't get their way. No one is saying it isn't legal, but not all legal things are a good idea. Let me ask you, if you wanted to intimidate people into getting your way politically, isn't a gun a good way to do it?
What at all would make you think there's a possibility for mass violence? Anything at all?
Not really. But if someone wants to carry legally more power to them.
Why should I be afraid of someone legally carrying a gun at all? I have my own thank you very much.
Yes. If the peoples home town team loses a big game.
After serving in the military for 12 years and as a police officer knowing the firepower of the military and law enforcement I can honestly say no, nothing.
Because someone who legally carries a gun can still do something illegal with it. You complete unwillingness to at least consider a possibility is staggering.
All that means is that if people got publically violent, then they'd lose.
Because when you're a student working two jobs at the mall to put yourself through school, insurance comes somewhere after rent and food for spending priorities.
No, since I'm in about the same boat (my second job is at a coffee shop not a mall), but after her accident I came over and helped her with things around the trailer that she couldn't do on her own. Lord knows I'd help financially if I could.
She's an atheist so not many churches will help her with anything substantial, and as for community organizations I don't know but can't think of many that would be much help for this.
Why do those who cannot use the system not matter? We have to look out for them too. Besides, our system's broken regardless.
If moving a small bit further away from pure capitalism will help us become a better society, one with a basic safety net, I'm ok with that. There's nothing sacred about lassaiz-faire capitalism.
You made a claim that was factually untrue. Either you lied or you didn't properly research before making a claim about another poster. Which was it?
The Senate leaders are Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell. Obviously I used them together in the same sentence so they're equivalent. I also noticed you skipped over everything else I posted.
No, you made a claim that "Your assertion that all opposition is not labeled racist must only apply to your own perception." And even Carter only said that some opposition is linked to racism. Can you at least be consistent with your own claim? Do you believe that all attacks on Obama are labeled racist, or only some?
What part of "I am armed as well" are you missing? So even if a possibility exists, it is irrelevant unless said person is breaking the law.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! :lol:
As I said I am more worried about blacks rioting over court decisions, and whites rioting over sports teams winning or losing. When was the last time "right wingers," "conservatives" or "Republicans" got violent over a political issue? The civil war? :lol:
How does it feel to live in fear of nothing?
So apparently you think it is not okay to call someone a liar even without knowing what was said. Apparently you don't adhere to the "civility" promise of this forum.
What illogic? What part of my statement did you find illogical? The part where I disagreed with your claim that I was equating Beck and Limbaugh, or the part where I was disagreeing with your claim that all attacks on Obama were labeled racist because your barber of all people said so? Name calling won't win you any arguments. Please point out where I was being so "illogical".We are no longer on topic. I, out of courtesy answered your response to my post. You provided nothing but innuendo and obfuscation without any logical basis and insinuated that I lied. I no longer feel the need to respond to your off topic rants or the need to be courteous towards you.
You are making assumptions on what I said. Your assumption that I expect the majority of the population to VIOLENTLY against this is not something I expect at all. I expect a small core group of people to be violently against it, which is something else entirely.By the title of this thread, it seems that you expect the majority of the population to be VIOLENTLY against THIS health care reform package which, no matter what they say, includes government takeover of 1/6th of the economy. I will not be for any HC legislation which aims to do that no matter how it affects your acquaintances who apparently have no faith, family or friends.
The violent protestors at the G20 were leftest liberals. I don't recall any organized conservative violence.
All attacks on Obama's actions, policies and initiatives are labeled racist by some. Carter stated the "vast majority".
Just because you don't agree with what I say doesn't make it illogic.I won't be responding to your illogic in this thread again.
Unfortunately the escalation of politically motivated violence is a very real possibility right now regardless how the healthcare fiasco works out. Lots of very angry, white, working-class people right now. They're upset because they (like the rest of the working class) aren't doing well. They're underpaid (if they have a job) overworked and in debt up to their eyeballs.
The potential for racial violence emerges from the fact that they mistakenly believe (they've been duped) that there has been a redistribution of wealth from them to minorities. The common white working man on the street today often holds the notion that Obama is taking from them to give back to "his people" and by his people they don't mean the rich. Nevermind that poor minorities are hurting worse than anyone as a result of the economic crisis. There has in fact been a redistribution of wealth, but in reality it has been from the working and middle classes to the richest 1%.
Unfortunately, there is no class consciousness in this country, and racial consciousness is still everything. The ruling class has been so effective at using race as a means of dividing the working class that it is to a large extent the very prism through which American workers view politics and the world. Rarely has that been more obvious than in the recent healthcare town hall meetings.
I'm speculating about future events. Obviously they're not violent right now.
Obviously I don't think it's nothing, so we'll see who is right. Even then I'm not saying it's definately not happening, just that it's a possibility.
The right end of the political spectrum has gotten worked up lately, more worked up and agitated than I can remember people getting in a long time. My fear is this: imagine that Obama gets health care reform through congress. We have people at town hall meetings, one of our oldest democratic traditions, shouting out congressmen. We have people bringing guns to political events (that aren't even gun related), and going on about the blood of tyrants. When I see how much hatred and anger is on the far right at this moment, it makes me scared that if they don't get their way they might turn violent. We're talking about violence on a scale larger than a few nuts here and there. Does anyone else see the same thing happening?
My prediction if the Democrat leadership force this down the American voters throats; there will be a vast rejection of Democrats and a new Republican Majority in the Congress. It won’t be violent; it will be Constitutional.
I believe that unless there is truly an HONEST bi-partisan effort to do the RIGHT thing to reign in health costs and make insurance accessible to everyone, there will be huge backlash for those in charge right now.
Tell us about is Swami.
:mrgreen:
My prediction if the Democrat leadership force this down the American voters throats; there will be a vast rejection of Democrats and a new Republican Majority in the Congress. It won’t be violent; it will be Constitutional.
I believe that unless there is truly an HONEST bi-partisan effort to do the RIGHT thing to reign in health costs and make insurance accessible to everyone, there will be huge backlash for those in charge right now.
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