If an Islamic terrorist group nukes a U.S. city, then what?

[Little-Acorn]

Suppose some Islamic terrorist group were to suddenly set off a nuclear weapon, improvised or otherwise, in a U.S. city such as Des Moines, or St. Louis, or New York, or Los Angeles etc. Not just a dirty bomb, but a full-fledged Hiroshima-type nuke or larger.

One fine sunny morning, suddenly half the city vanishes. A terrorist group (Al-Qaeda, or Hezbollah, or etc.) claims credit, and preliminary investigation turns up strong evidence that they really were the ones who did it.

Two questions:

1.) What will the United States do?

2.) What SHOULD the United States do?

I asked the first question so that the Republican-bashers and Democrat-bashers can vent as usual about how poor the other party's response will be. The second question is the real one, to which I'd like serious answers.

U.N. involvement?

Use of our nukes in response?

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders?

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group?

Fold up and cry?

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders?

Build and man a border fence?

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate?

Declare martial law?

Pass Patriot Act III?

Please "check all that apply", and please add your own suggestions.

Remember, a few million Americans just got incinerated in about half a second. What do we do?

.

 

[oldreliable67]

Interesting post, but hardly "Breaking News" -- doesn't this belong in the "War on Terror" Forum, or perhaps restate the proposition as a poll?

 

[MSgt]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to "War on Terror."

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Two questions:

1.) What will the United States do?

2.) What SHOULD the United States do?

I asked the first question so that the Republican-bashers and Democrat-bashers can vent as usual about how poor the other party's response will be. The second question is the real one, to which I'd like serious answers..

U.N. involvement? NO.. Whats the point... I'm done talking at that point... It's killin time

Use of our nukes in response? If we can find definet prrof that a specific country or countries assited in the attack through funding, training, weaponary or intelligence

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders? NO.. BUt definetly snatch up any that are on watch lists, and increase observation of any suspicious behavior

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group? If there is anything left standing. But a hard line needs to be taken with these terrorist nations. If attacking them is only going to increase the popularity of the terorrist group, then so be it. They join they die ... next problem

Fold up and cry? Never

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders? Not Possible... Freedom of religion kind of gets in the way

Build and man a border fence? SHould have already been done

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate? KIll him, his family, his friends

Declare martial law? Innevitable in the begining, least in the effected area

Pass Patriot Act III? The liberals are whining about what we have now. A few million deaths are not going to change there mind.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

U.N. involvement? NO.. Whats the point... I'm done talking at that point... It's killin time

Use of our nukes in response? If we can find definet prrof that a specific country or countries assited in the attack through funding, training, weaponary or intelligence

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders? NO.. BUt definetly snatch up any that are on watch lists, and increase observation of any suspicious behavior

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group? If there is anything left standing. But a hard line needs to be taken with these terrorist nations. If attacking them is only going to increase the popularity of the terorrist group, then so be it. They join they die ... next problem

Fold up and cry? Never

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders? Not Possible... Freedom of religion kind of gets in the way

Build and man a border fence? SHould have already been done

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate? KIll him, his family, his friends

Declare martial law? Innevitable in the begining, least in the effected area

Pass Patriot Act III? The liberals are whining about what we have now. A few million deaths are not going to change there mind.

:yt

Except for 2 things:
1. Usama Bin Laden's family are innocent and allies. Why harm them?
2. Patriot Act III, whats in it?

 

[PeteEU]

U.N. involvement?

Depends. Will add a sense of global action, depending on the action. I doubt very much the UN would stand in the US way or anyones way to find and bring to justice the people responsible. That was after all what happened with Afganistan.

Use of our nukes in response?

On who? Random country whos leadership you dont like? Bomb Cuba, Venzuela, Iran,?

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders?

Well the US did that with the Japanese and frankly it does go against all principles of freedom and democracy, not to mention your own constitution. At least this time you can say you would round up "all potential" threats, not like during WW2 when all Italian Americans and German Americans were left untouched basicly. Still, it goes so against everything I believe the US stands for.. its after all the same thing Hitler did to the jews and Stalin to other minorities in Russia.

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group?

Again, against who? Cant just go invade random nation without some sort of proof that the nation's govermen was involved... and then again its not stopped the US before :roll:

Fold up and cry?

For a while, and then kick some ***

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders?

Need major law changes to do that, not very realistic. Would change the nation totaly. One could say whats next.. Homosexuality? Blacks? Chinese?

Build and man a border fence?

For what purpose and cost? To make it effective, you would need millions of men on the border 24/7. Like it or not you have 2 of the longest borders in the world and covering them will be expensive as hell.

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate?

So now you all of a sudden take him seriously? So it takes millions of dead and not 3000 plus dead to take him seriously and hunt him down?

Declare martial law?

Of course, at least in the area effected. Would only be natural. Question is how long. Will the political elite use martial law to grab more power? Thats the usual consquence of it in most countries that have been "forced" to inact such laws.

Pass Patriot Act III?

On the principle that 3rd time lucky?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

:yt

Except for 2 things:
1. Usama Bin Laden's family are innocent and allies. Why harm them?
2. Patriot Act III, whats in it?

Innocent gets to be a relative in this situation. If they haven't had contact with him in 2 decades then fine..... BUt at some point, we have to make being a terrorist to expensive. They don't care about their lives, maybe they will care for there family and friends. I understand the argument of making us no better then them. But sometimes ugly things have to be done to protect the greater good. You fight a guerilla war you don't fight it in a standard anner. You adapt the tactics of your enemy. I know it's a harsh, but how do you make terrorsim to expensive for the terrorist?

What ever it is it will never fly. Anything that allows the government enough freedom to track the killers of millions in a nuclear attack is never going to be capable of surviving the inevitable liberal attack

 

[cherokee]

They would get the “holly war” they often whine and cry about……….
They wouldn’t like the out come at all.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Innocent gets to be a relative in this situation. If they haven't had contact with him in 2 decades then fine..... BUt at some point, we have to make being a terrorist to expensive. They don't care about their lives, maybe they will care for there family and friends.

....... ...... :censored

You wanna get Don Corleone on Bid Laden's family?...

I understand the argument of making us no better then them. But sometimes ugly things have to be done to protect the greater good. You fight a guerilla war you don't fight it in a standard anner. You adapt the tactics of your enemy. I know it's a harsh, but how do you make terrorsim to expensive for the terrorist?

So the ends (security, your greater good) can come by any means, no matter how ugly? Im surprised to hear you take such a position C2C, how very Machiavellian of you. This doesnt change my opinion of you in the least, we are talking hypothetically. And lord knows how differently I may think while under nuclear bombardment. I know the days following 9/11 I once said "I wish the whole of their holy land to be nuked out of existence, let the middle east rot in history as the dirt worshiping theocratic hole that it was."

While you arent wrong, I would be ashamed of such tactics, and what my country will have become in the process. But I guess thats just me being too idealistic. I've always had the "Shining beacon of liberty" point of view on how America should be seen internationally, JFK stylee.

What ever it is it will never fly. Anything that allows the government enough freedom to track the killers of millions in a nuclear attack is never going to be capable of surviving the inevitable liberal attack

I dont see it as a liberal vs conservative issue, I see it as a libertarian vs authoritarian issue.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

....... ...... :censored

You wanna get Don Corleone on Bid Laden's family?...



So the ends (security, your greater good) can come by any means, no matter how ugly? Im surprised to hear you take such a position C2C, how very Machiavellian of you. This doesnt change my opinion of you in the least, we are talking hypothetically. And lord knows how differently I may think while under nuclear bombardment. I know the days following 9/11 I once said "I wish the whole of their holy land to be nuked out of existence, let the middle east rot in history as the dirt worshiping theocratic hole that it was."

While you arent wrong, I would be ashamed of such tactics, and what my country will have become in the process. But I guess thats just me being too idealistic. I've always had the "Shining beacon of liberty" point of view on how America should be seen internationally, JFK stylee.



I dont see it as a liberal vs conservative issue, I see it as a libertarian vs authoritarian issue.

It comes down to an end justifying the means..... Hey.. I am open for suggestions if people have a better way. MY idea as unsavvery as it seems, has as good a chance as working as any other. IT will not probably stop the present terrorist. BUt a young man with a young wife and a couple of kids will weight the cost of his involvement. Because finally there would be a cost, and it would be laid at the feet of people he cares about. It would be ugly, and it would be bruttal... And it would in the end make the world a safer place. And if you can go a generation or two without the influence. Maybe that will be enough to set the freedoms loose that all people will desire. KIds that don't grow up around terrorist or see terrorism or hear there praises have a good chance of growing up..........................human

 

[Spartacus FPV]

It comes down to an end justifying the means..... Hey.. I am open for suggestions if people have a better way. MY idea as unsavvery as it seems, has as good a chance as working as any other. IT will not probably stop the present terrorist. BUt a young man with a young wife and a couple of kids will weight the cost of his involvement. Because finally there would be a cost, and it would be laid at the feet of people he cares about. It would be ugly, and it would be bruttal... And it would in the end make the world a safer place. And if you can go a generation or two without the influence. Maybe that will be enough to set the freedoms loose that all people will desire. KIds that don't grow up around terrorist or see terrorism or hear there praises have a good chance of growing up..........................human

So if I understand you correctly, its that a few generations must suffer under authoritarianism so that future generations may live in a world beyond terrorism.

Sounds fine for the future generations, and I never said I doubted that it worked, im just saying it would suck for those enduring under the "means." And you wouldnt get any support from libertarians or "freedom fighters."

As to your challenge I do not have a better idea, so I guess under this hypothetical I would be one of those with no ideas criticising those acting under what I consider to be a bad idea.... Well at least the status quo hasnt changed (May NavyPride never understand that statement)

 

[Calm2Chaos]

So if I understand you correctly, its that a few generations must suffer under authoritarianism so that future generations may live in a world beyond terrorism.

Sounds fine for the future generations, and I never said I doubted that it worked, im just saying it would suck for those enduring under the "means." And you wouldnt get any support from libertarians or "freedom fighters."

As to your challenge I do not have a better idea, so I guess under this hypothetical I would be one of those with no ideas criticising those acting under what I consider to be a bad idea.... Well at least the status quo hasnt changed (May NavyPride never understand that statement)

I honestly don't think your looking at suffering ... This isn't a sweeping wave of death delivered on CNN. These action I have no doubt have been and are still used by nations. There is going to be no jack boot on there throat for a couple generations... The offending people are quitely alerted of there status and what the reprocitons<sp> are? Inevitably there will be ones that defy the warning they get the prize. BUt as soon as this happens It gets the wheels turning of the younger up and coming terrorist. The cost is evident immediately. Hell I could be wrong and this could backfire. BUt I know if you have my kids, you have me..... Everything else comes second. If they still push on knowing whats going to happen, what else is there thats going ot change there mind. If there willing to make that sacrifice there is no talking or reasoning with them. Then you start looking at a different tact

 

[reaganburch]

....... ...... :censored

You wanna get Don Corleone on Bid Laden's family?...

I'll admit to it... :2wave: You damn skippy I would...

Actually, I'm a bit harsher than that...

I'm reading a book, fiction, but still... An interrogator threatens a terrorist with killing his wife, kidnapping his infant children, bringing them to America to be adopted by a Christian family and raised as Christians... sounds fair to me...

Like Sean Connery said in The Untouchables... it's the Chicago way... right Deegan?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I honestly don't think your looking at suffering ... This isn't a sweeping wave of death delivered on CNN. These action I have no doubt have been and are still used by nations. There is going to be no jack boot on there throat for a couple generations... The offending people are quitely alerted of there status and what the reprocitons<sp> are? Inevitably there will be ones that defy the warning they get the prize. BUt as soon as this happens It gets the wheels turning of the younger up and coming terrorist. The cost is evident immediately. Hell I could be wrong and this could backfire. BUt I know if you have my kids, you have me..... Everything else comes second. If they still push on knowing whats going to happen, what else is there thats going ot change there mind. If there willing to make that sacrifice there is no talking or reasoning with them. Then you start looking at a different tact

Im still having a hard time see'ing your side to this. It might be because I am a hardcore libertarian, but more likely it is that its easy to act under a "live free or die" mentality when you dont have kids or someone else to protect.

I could live under an anarcho-capitalist state that is under constant threat of terrorist attack, and I would do so arrogantly in defiance to those who would sacrifice freedom, but not if I had a family.

I guess i've got some thinking to do... Its not so easy to be idealistic when you have something to lose.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Suppose some Islamic terrorist group were to suddenly set off a nuclear weapon, improvised or otherwise, in a U.S. city such as Des Moines, or St. Louis, or New York, or Los Angeles etc. Not just a dirty bomb, but a full-fledged Hiroshima-type nuke or larger.

One fine sunny morning, suddenly half the city vanishes. A terrorist group (Al-Qaeda, or Hezbollah, or etc.) claims credit, and preliminary investigation turns up strong evidence that they really were the ones who did it.

Two questions:

1.) What will the United States do?

2.) What SHOULD the United States do?

I asked the first question so that the Republican-bashers and Democrat-bashers can vent as usual about how poor the other party's response will be. The second question is the real one, to which I'd like serious answers.

U.N. involvement?

Use of our nukes in response?

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders?

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group?

Fold up and cry?

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders?

Build and man a border fence?

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate?

Declare martial law?

Pass Patriot Act III?

Please "check all that apply", and please add your own suggestions.

Remember, a few million Americans just got incinerated in about half a second. What do we do?

.

Nuclear retaliation against Mecca and Medina.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Im still having a hard time see'ing your side to this. It might be because I am a hardcore libertarian, but more likely it is that its easy to act under a "live free or die" mentality when you dont have kids or someone else to protect.

I could live under an anarcho-capitalist state that is under constant threat of terrorist attack, and I would do so arrogantly in defiance to those who would sacrifice freedom, but not if I had a family.

I guess i've got some thinking to do... Its not so easy to be idealistic when you have something to lose.

Thats my point.. These animals have only had to sacrifice one thing, themselves. If you make them decide to sacrifice things that mean much more to themselves... Maybe they will think twice about blowing up that cafe. The cost of it is going to be so high that it just isn't worth it. Course it's not perfect , but it's a start maybe. And maybe upon making this choice they have to decide of better more constructive ways to institute change.

I think the world would be a lot more sympathetic to your plight if you weren't blowing up it's citizens.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I'll admit to it... :2wave: You damn skippy I would...

Actually, I'm a bit harsher than that...

I'm reading a book, fiction, but still... An interrogator threatens a terrorist with killing his wife, kidnapping his infant children, bringing them to America to be adopted by a Christian family and raised as Christians... sounds fair to me...

Like Sean Connery said in The Untouchables... it's the Chicago way... right Deegan?

That could work.. LOng as there was a cost associated with there individula actions

 

[MrFungus420]

 

[Calm2Chaos]

A giant swimming pool in what will soon become the most peacefull ME in History

 

[reaganburch]

That could work.. LOng as there was a cost associated with there individula actions

A cost to our interrogators or a cost to the terrorists?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

A cost to our interrogators or a cost to the terrorists?

Terrorist.

 

[reaganburch]

Terrorist.

Oh, I see what you're saying now... perhaps we can keep him in some extra-secret prison and send him pictures of his children in a church with his new western society parents occasionally...

Or, we can just Nick Berg him... what's good for them is good enough to be used on them, right?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Oh, I see what you're saying now... perhaps we can keep him in some extra-secret prison and send him pictures of his children in a church with his new western society parents occasionally...

Or, we can just Nick Berg him... what's good for them is good enough to be used on them, right?

I would avoid the Nick Berg since the power of that was the visual. As far as the secret prison... NA...serves no purpose to put him in jail. If you do this and he still goes forward with it, then you kill him. You do this because a man willing to sacrafice his wife and kids and family is never going to negotiaite or quit.

But if you bring a knife to a gunfight.. your going to lose.

You either associate a heavy cost with there activities, or they continue to perform without consiquences

 

[Jrob_fire72]

Hmmmmm, What should we do if America gets hit with a nuclear Bomb? Here are my answers to your questions:

U.N. involvement? The U.N. the hell with them, Half of them would probably be laughing in our faces.

Use of our nukes in response? Hell, what do you think. I would nook the country where they originated from so bad, you could use there country as a lighthouse for space shuttles.

Round up all Islamics within U.S. borders? No comment!!!

Military invasion to ferret out every last member of the group while trying to avoid damage to "innocent" civilians not part of the group? Hell, their would be no need for a military invasion. I would not want my troops to get radiation poisoning.

Fold up and cry? Never that

Forbid the religion of Islam within our borders? Yeah, that is a good idea, and if our current Islamic immigrants disagree with it, I say deport them back to the country where they came from. Let them come up with a cure for radiation poisoning

Build and man a border fence? Hell, I say close our borders and work on building a force field to protect our country. Then we should start minding our own business.....

Signal Osama we'll now negotiate? Yes, My nuclear beakon will be the signal

Declare martial law? Why not

Pass Patriot Act III? Yes, pass the patriot missle to all that apply

:gunsmilie