I saw the darkness of antisemitism, but I never thought it would get this dark

Mithrae said:

But not exclusively for Jews, and most Jews do not live there. To equate the two is either ignorant or dishonest, or both.

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It is a Jewish state founded to be a homeland for Jews, as was validated by UN resolutions. It is the internationally recognized reason for Israel's existence. To fail to acknowledge that is to be ignorant, dishonest, or both.

At best, this is a claim for which you have not a single shred of evidence; with its sole 'redeeming' feature being that you've chosen the weasel word usually, to mean as much or as little as you want it to.

But in fact your claim is directly and unambiguously contradicted by the fact that virtually all Americans themselves criticize one administration or another: In fact libertarians, such as yourself, are well-known for pushing amongst the broadest and harshest-rhetoric attacks on the scale and activities of US governments generally, for much if not all of the past 100 years! Unless you are coming out of the closet with your dislike or hatred of the American people here, this has got to be one of the most abject failures of thought and introspection I have ever seen :lol:

Your ongoing claim that "Anti-Zionism is always anti-Semitism" doesn't even have any weasel words to fall back on; it is an absolute declaration, again completely devoid of evidence, revealing nothing except (yes, you've managed to convince me of it) your own bigotry. Many Jews themselves, as I have already pointed out several times, are critical of Israeli policies, or the manner in which Zionism has been manifest, or even the concept of a racially-oriented or -defined country at all! But apparently you find yourself utterly incapable of recognising that Jews have their own thoughts, feelings and socio-political perspectives the same as everyone else.

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You have taken the weasel position that anti-Zionists are not anti-Semites. We both know that's not true. A little good faith on your part would be helpful.

For all practical purposes, anti-Zionists are anti-Semites until proven otherwise. Shrewed anti-Semites are always posing as anti-Zionists, and they are the most vocal. I'll warrant the possibility that people might be unhappy with the Israeli government not because they are Jews but honestly because of disagreements on policy, but when the rubber meets the road it is usually hatred of Jews that is at the base for most of these non-Jews, and it's only after extended discussion with them that this becomes plain. Eventually it gets down to Israel acting badly because the Jews are evil.

When Palestinians knife teenagers in terrorist attacks they are attacking Jews. Are you going to claim that this is only anti-Zionism?

When Palestinians plant a bomb on a school bus do you think that this is only criticism of Israeli government policy or is it an expression of their hatred for Jews?

And when BDS activists decry the deaths of Palestinians without mentioning that the Palestinians were killed attacking Israelis am I supposed to believe that this unbelievable one-sidedness is not out of hatred of Jews?

When BDS campaigns to hurt the economy of the Jewish state am I expected to believe that this is merely anti-Zionism shorn of any hatred for the race?

LowDown said:

It is a Jewish state founded to be a homeland for Jews, as was validated by UN resolutions. It is the internationally recognized reason for Israel's existence. To fail to acknowledge that is to be ignorant, dishonest, or both.

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I never said otherwise. However you have suggested that Israel = Jews ("What is Israel, if not Jews?") and that criticism of Israel = dislike or hatred of Jews ("Anti-Zionism is always anti-Semitism"): Both of these are obviously false, no matter how much you try to dodge that fact.

LowDown said:

You have taken the weasel position that anti-Zionists are not anti-Semites. We both know that's not true. A little good faith on your part would be helpful.

For all practical purposes, anti-Zionists are anti-Semites until proven otherwise.

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Then because of their opposition to the very format of 20th and 21st century American government, libertarians are obviously anti-American (and for that matter anti-Australian, anti-Canadian, anti-Western) until proven otherwise. Indeed since Israel obviously is not a country run on libertarian principles you are an anti-Semite too, even by your own judgement!

It's not possible to have a rational conversation with a victim-worshipper. Any disagreement with the principle of victim-worship is taken as a sign of bad motives.

This thread and LowDown's replies to Mithrae demonstrate that well.