JumpinJack
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2013
- Messages
- 6,628
- Reaction score
- 2,971
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Israel is a good ally of ours. Doesn't mean that Israel hasn't been guilty of some really bad things along the way. But Israel is the good guy in the I/P conflict, as far as I can see. It wants to live in peace, prosper, have a democratic government, get along with its neighbors with trade deals and travel. That is not the goal of Hamas, to put it mildly. Hamas' stated goals are to put an end to the country of Israel and kill all Jews in the world.
Having said all that, one thing I find disturbing is the argument that Israelis keep making that the land of Israel is theirs by right because it was given to them by God eons ago, and they were the so-called first to settle the area.
When I hear that, I think...well, of course they weren't the first. Or at least there is no way to know who was the first. We all supposedly came from Africa in the beginning, and then migrated to various areas. Whose to say were the first humans to migrate to that area?
But never mind that....the argument sounds to me a lot like an argument a Native American could make on any current American. Any Native American could make the claim that they settled our area first, that they were pushed out, that the land was theirs according to the gods. So they could show up, claim our houses, push us out, bulldoze down our houses, and start building a formal government, exiling us to the "west bank" (California?). Much like we exiled the Native Americans centuries ago.
This would be wrong to do, and not legal, since WE didn't steal the land at all. Our ancestors wrongly killed and stole from the Natives. But we, as descendents, are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors of centuries ago.
So we, current Americans, would be in the position of the Palestinians. And the Native Americans would be like the Israelis.
That sort of puts things in a different light for me. The positions of the parties. Although it's simplistic.
But that doesn't mean that, if the Native Americans were successful in taking "back" their land, and living and prospering and growing the area, and setting up a formal country with borders & and a government, and living that way for 80 years, that those 80 years could be undone. Or that it could rightfully be called an occupation at that point. Especially if the taking of the land by the Native Americans was sanctioned by an international committee at the start.
But hearing the argument that the Jewish people have a right to that land that no one else has, because it was given to them by God and because they were there first, always rings hollow to me, and seems ridiculous, frankly. As does the claim that the arabs never did "have" that land. From what I read, the arabs lived there and farmed for many centuries. Until about the time of the World Wars, when the Jews started coming back in waves to claim it. From what I read, initially the Jews and arabs co-existed peacefully in the area, the arabs letting the Jewish people set up their own areas of townships or whatever.
There's no denying that the Jewish people have a special relationship with that land, and a rich history. But so do the arabs, apparently.
All this history is ancient, though, and IMO should not relate to the current situation. Israel now exists, and it's here to stay. It wants to live in peace. Hamas cannot kick the Jews out of Israel. It is fruitless to try. Hamas is a terrorist organization. The best way forward is for Palestinians to try to find a way to peacefully co-exist with the Jewish people. That means kicking Hamas out. But I still think it's ridiculous to claim your rightful ownership to a land because your ancestors lived there eons ago.
Having said all that, one thing I find disturbing is the argument that Israelis keep making that the land of Israel is theirs by right because it was given to them by God eons ago, and they were the so-called first to settle the area.
When I hear that, I think...well, of course they weren't the first. Or at least there is no way to know who was the first. We all supposedly came from Africa in the beginning, and then migrated to various areas. Whose to say were the first humans to migrate to that area?
But never mind that....the argument sounds to me a lot like an argument a Native American could make on any current American. Any Native American could make the claim that they settled our area first, that they were pushed out, that the land was theirs according to the gods. So they could show up, claim our houses, push us out, bulldoze down our houses, and start building a formal government, exiling us to the "west bank" (California?). Much like we exiled the Native Americans centuries ago.
This would be wrong to do, and not legal, since WE didn't steal the land at all. Our ancestors wrongly killed and stole from the Natives. But we, as descendents, are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors of centuries ago.
So we, current Americans, would be in the position of the Palestinians. And the Native Americans would be like the Israelis.
That sort of puts things in a different light for me. The positions of the parties. Although it's simplistic.
But that doesn't mean that, if the Native Americans were successful in taking "back" their land, and living and prospering and growing the area, and setting up a formal country with borders & and a government, and living that way for 80 years, that those 80 years could be undone. Or that it could rightfully be called an occupation at that point. Especially if the taking of the land by the Native Americans was sanctioned by an international committee at the start.
But hearing the argument that the Jewish people have a right to that land that no one else has, because it was given to them by God and because they were there first, always rings hollow to me, and seems ridiculous, frankly. As does the claim that the arabs never did "have" that land. From what I read, the arabs lived there and farmed for many centuries. Until about the time of the World Wars, when the Jews started coming back in waves to claim it. From what I read, initially the Jews and arabs co-existed peacefully in the area, the arabs letting the Jewish people set up their own areas of townships or whatever.
There's no denying that the Jewish people have a special relationship with that land, and a rich history. But so do the arabs, apparently.
All this history is ancient, though, and IMO should not relate to the current situation. Israel now exists, and it's here to stay. It wants to live in peace. Hamas cannot kick the Jews out of Israel. It is fruitless to try. Hamas is a terrorist organization. The best way forward is for Palestinians to try to find a way to peacefully co-exist with the Jewish people. That means kicking Hamas out. But I still think it's ridiculous to claim your rightful ownership to a land because your ancestors lived there eons ago.
