• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

I don't understand these anti vaxers.

stealthycat said:
and all 3 are choices for each person to decide for themselves
Click to expand...

Sure. a hardcore idiot is totally free to decide to forego vaccines and shorten their own life. no skin off my nose.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
Sure. a hardcore idiot is totally free to decide to forego vaccines and shorten their own life. no skin off my nose.
Click to expand...
This guy takes it to another level because there is another hospital willing to do the transplant without the vaccine. Utterly absurd.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
Sure. a hardcore idiot is totally free to decide to forego vaccines and shorten their own life. no skin off my nose.
Click to expand...

you support a person's right to choose their life - good !
 
stealthycat said:
you support a person's right to choose their life - good !
Click to expand...
I absolutely support a person's right to reject the doctors' recommended treatment when they have enough information to make that decision. I don't support a patient choosing how that treatment will proceed if they accept it. That is the purview of the physicians.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
I absolutely support a person's right to reject the doctors' recommended treatment when they have enough information to make that decision. I don't support a patient choosing how that treatment will proceed if they accept it. That is the purview of the physicians.
Click to expand...

my sis in law diagnosed with breast cancer

she rejected the immediate recommendation for double mastectomy - not rejecting treatment but what kinds/types etc. she went through an experimental program in SF ... its been a long journey for her but she'd very happy with her choices and NOT accepting what the doctors told her

what will happen 3,5, 15 years from now nobody knows - but doctors are wrong, often, and she is very happy she did NOT proceed with what her local doctors had told her
 
stealthycat said:
my sis in law diagnosed with breast cancer

she rejected the immediate recommendation for double mastectomy - not rejecting treatment but what kinds/types etc. she went through an experimental program in SF ... its been a long journey for her but she'd very happy with her choices and NOT accepting what the doctors told her

what will happen 3,5, 15 years from now nobody knows - but doctors are wrong, often, and she is very happy she did NOT proceed with what her local doctors had told her
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with getting a second - or even a third opinion. When there are several options, the patient has to consider the ramifications of each.

If you were to go to a cardiologist and he/she recommended quadruple bypass, you can accept the recommendation or reject it, but if you were to tell the doctor, "Let's just do a double bypass and see how it goes . . ." They would be quite reasonable to show you the door. Why? Because you are not qualified to make a decision like that.
 
stealthycat said:
my Dad had brain cancer ... he said no to every follow up test and further examination, saying in no way would he do any treatments for it

the doctor said completely understand, go home, enjoy your remaining days, here's the number to hospice when you need them ......... and that's what we did

they'd have run battery of tests, drilled into his brain ... all of that if he'd have chose that


choice
Click to expand...

First. Let me begin by offering my sincere and heartfelt condolences. I really do sympathize.

Second. I understand your Dad’s decision. I wouldn’t say choice. The odds of extending his life by as little as a year with all those painful tests and treatments would be rather low. That statement is made with the assumption it was diagnosed as Glioblastoma. Barely 5% of the patients with that survive five more years.

I’m one of those advocates for Choice. The kind of old White Guy who believes in as much Freedom as possible for everyone.

If you don’t believe in Vaccines, cool. If you refuse to vaccinate your kid. Whatever. You watch helplessly as your child gets Measles or Polio. On your own head be it.
 
SavannahMann said:
First. Let me begin by offering my sincere and heartfelt condolences. I really do sympathize.

Second. I understand your Dad’s decision. I wouldn’t say choice. The odds of extending his life by as little as a year with all those painful tests and treatments would be rather low. That statement is made with the assumption it was diagnosed as Glioblastoma. Barely 5% of the patients with that survive five more years.

I’m one of those advocates for Choice. The kind of old White Guy who believes in as much Freedom as possible for everyone.
Click to expand...

thank you

choice/decisions are pretty much the same aren't they ? you're not wrong - it would have extended his life 1-2 years maybe at the most

I did read today that my sis in law's breast cancer / body isn't responding as well as had hoped with the different avenue of treatments she'd chosen
SavannahMann said:
If you don’t believe in Vaccines, cool. If you refuse to vaccinate your kid. Whatever. You watch helplessly as your child gets Measles or Polio. On your own head be it.
Click to expand...

we do the best we can as parents
 
stealthycat said:
thank you

choice/decisions are pretty much the same aren't they ? you're not wrong - it would have extended his life 1-2 years maybe at the most

I did read today that my sis in law's breast cancer / body isn't responding as well as had hoped with the different avenue of treatments she'd chosen


we do the best we can as parents
Click to expand...

Choice and Decisions are extremely similar. For my own vernacular a Choice is something yet to be made. A decision is something that has been made. I have a Choice for dinner. I’ve decided on BBQ Pork. I readily admit that my Verbage is not what everyone uses. I just wanted to explain it.

Every child is different. And every situation is different. There are children who react badly to Vaccines. So the choice is to endanger the child no matter what you do.

The flaw with the Vaccine/Choice argument is this. Very few people will react badly. And the benefit of the Vaccine is almost always worth it. If your child reacted badly to one chances are your Doctor will advise against further vaccines.

The Measles outbreak in Texas and the case in Atlanta are all in the unvaccinated population.

I read above about your Sister. I hope you know I extend my best wishes for her recovery. Often in this life we are not given good choices. We are left with choosing the least worst option.
 
SavannahMann said:
Choice and Decisions are extremely similar. For my own vernacular a Choice is something yet to be made. A decision is something that has been made. I have a Choice for dinner. I’ve decided on BBQ Pork. I readily admit that my Verbage is not what everyone uses. I just wanted to explain it.

Every child is different. And every situation is different. There are children who react badly to Vaccines. So the choice is to endanger the child no matter what you do.

The flaw with the Vaccine/Choice argument is this. Very few people will react badly. And the benefit of the Vaccine is almost always worth it. If your child reacted badly to one chances are your Doctor will advise against further vaccines.

The Measles outbreak in Texas and the case in Atlanta are all in the unvaccinated population.

I read above about your Sister. I hope you know I extend my best wishes for her recovery. Often in this life we are not given good choices. We are left with choosing the least worst option.
Click to expand...

but its more than a numbers game - do you know why ?

if a drug is 99.5% effective and only 0.5% having severe reactions ..... that's great for the 99.5% isn't it ?

if its your child in the 0.5% and you have no choice/control .... it really sucks

In 2000, approximately 1 in 150 children in the U.S. born in 1992 were diagnosed with autism compared with 2020, during which one in 36 children born in 2012 were diagnosed, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.



Tripled in such a short period of time - go back farther and autism was rarer and almost unknown. People will argue "well, we're better at diagnosing" ..... maybe yes. Maybe its something else too.

Its ALL worth looking at, this is our kids, they're extremely valuable. Parents have rights and their choices matter for their kids, agree with them or no and vaccines is one of those choices
 
stealthycat said:
but its more than a numbers game - do you know why ?

if a drug is 99.5% effective and only 0.5% having severe reactions ..... that's great for the 99.5% isn't it ?

if its your child in the 0.5% and you have no choice/control .... it really sucks

In 2000, approximately 1 in 150 children in the U.S. born in 1992 were diagnosed with autism compared with 2020, during which one in 36 children born in 2012 were diagnosed, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.



Tripled in such a short period of time - go back farther and autism was rarer and almost unknown. People will argue "well, we're better at diagnosing" ..... maybe yes. Maybe its something else too.

Its ALL worth looking at, this is our kids, they're extremely valuable. Parents have rights and their choices matter for their kids, agree with them or no and vaccines is one of those choices
Click to expand...

Autism was discovered or perhaps defined is a better word, in 1911. Prior to that it was dismissed as a symptom of schizophrenia. Does that mean there were, or were not Autistic people prior to 1911?

Mild cases were most often dismissed as the child just being slow. Psychiatric conditions still carry a significant stigma among most of the population. Parents are loath to even consider that Junior might not be normal.

That mentality has changed and more parents are willing to consider that Junior might need a little help.

It’s important to remember that Vaccines have been in use for decades before this “potentially linked” spike in Autism.

I also remember former Senator John Edwards, who was the Vice Presidential Candidate with John Kerry.

Edwards made millions, primarily in medical malpractice suits as a lawyer. He sued more than twenty times claiming that the Doctor should have delivered the baby by C-Section and because he did not Junior developed Cerebral Palsy.

Now Doctors are much quicker to pull the C-Section emergency handle. Women face higher risks of post delivery complications. Higher rates of infections. And the rate of Cerebral Palsy has remained the same.

You aren’t alone in blaming something for an outcome, or at least being suspicious of it. Most manufacturers stopped using BPA in plastic after it was claimed the chemical would leach into food or drinks and mess with the hormone levels, especially in girls. One report even said it was why Girls were developing bigger chests.

My Mother, who worked her entire life as a Nurse, went to her Grave convinced that Saccharin had given her the MS that indirectly led to her death.

I’ll repeat what I have said often. Nothing is ever 100%. In life, the best thing you can do is play the odds. Even doing so, making ever decision right, doesn’t mean it won’t end badly.

You can drive the safest car. Obey the speed limit. Wear your seatbelt religiously. Always be defensive. And you can still be crushed by a Tractor Trailer.

We do the best we can. We try and learn and do better tomorrow. We try and do our best and in the end we are left with a Prayer that a Deity takes mercy on us.
 
To understand an anti-vaxxer, you have to know the sound of no cylinders firing.
 
Luce said:
To understand an anti-vaxxer, you have to know the sound of no cylinders firing.
Click to expand...

When we don’t know, we tend to try and find a cause, for the effect. It’s human. We’ve always done it. We burned women at the Stake because we believed in Witchcraft causing harm. Serving Satan or whatever.

In the modern era, we at least know it isn’t Witchcraft, or Satan, or dark forces. But we still search for a cause. My Mother was a Nurse for her entire adult life. And to the day she died she blamed Saccharine for her MS. She was sure it was the artificial Sweeteners that had caused it.

Anti Vaccine people find it as the cause for whatever ailment they are discussing. It causes Autism. This is despite the fact that Autism diagnosis are going up, while Vaccination rates are falling. But what if it is causing Autism? Can we risk it?

We all do it. Even Einstein did it. He looked at Math that indicated that Black Holes would exist. Based upon his own Theories and physics work. Einstein decided there was a Steady State Universe that would not allow such things. God would prevent it. Einstein later admitted that was wrong, and called it his biggest mistake ever.

We Sacrificed animals, and people, to please God’s and bring us good fortune. We have done a lot of things for the same reason, we don’t know, and we’re scared, and we want to blame or beg something.

People who don’t understand how Vaccines work, they want to blame them. If not Vaccines, then Chem trails. Something is doing this. Something nefarious, something we are overlooking.

Like the people determined to burn a Woman at the Stake, you can’t really reason with them. We’ve moved on from Witchcraft to secret plots to poison us with these Vaccines. If the people in that camp really were capable of Critical Thought, they’d realize it would be a lot easier to put the poison in something much more common than Vaccines. Hell, put it in Coffee and two thirds of the population would be affected in a week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom