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Human Creativity/Intelligence

JoeMama

JoeMama

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Do you think it is possible to make something (like a robot) thats 'creativity' is greater than that of a human?

Or can you make a robot with greater 'intelligence' than that of a human? In which case that robot would know he is greater than you, and take advantage of you...(IRobot anyone?)

Basically, can humans make something smarter/more creative than themselves?

It's a pretty deep topic :doh
 
JoeMama said:
Do you think it is possible to make something (like a robot) thats 'creativity' is greater than that of a human?

Or can you make a robot with greater 'intelligence' than that of a human? In which case that robot would know he is greater than you, and take advantage of you...(IRobot anyone?)

Basically, can humans make something smarter/more creative than themselves?

It's a pretty deep topic :doh
Click to expand...

I certainly believe it is quite possible. Most humans have specific patterns or ways they react to situations with the set of variables at the time. Masters of poker can pick up on little patterns in people on various strengths of hands they hold. Patterns in which many people don't realize they have.

Each person has their own types of reactions or problem solving. If a robot is programed with all scenarios with all personality types a robot may have an enormous amount of ways to problem solve or an enormous number of ways to be creative. Perhaps a robot can even take in and load all new information as it comes and add it to make its problem solving abilities infinite. In other words a computer can learn and be far more smarter or adjust to fit in with all personality types it encounters.
 
creativedreams said:
I certainly believe it is quite possible. Most humans have specific patterns or ways they react to situations with the set of variables at the time. Masters of poker can pick up on little patterns in people on various strengths of hands they hold. Patterns in which many people don't realize they have.

Each person has their own types of reactions or problem solving. If a robot is programed with all scenarios with all personality types a robot may have an enormous amount of ways to problem solve or an enormous number of ways to be creative. Perhaps a robot can even take in and load all new information as it comes and add it to make its problem solving abilities infinite. In other words a computer can learn and be far more smarter or adjust to fit in with all personality types it encounters.
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In order for a computer to be as intelligent as a human, a human would have to create it. We barely understand how human intelligence, or the human brain in general, works. You have award winning authors like Philip K. Dick (science-fiction) who are writers (good writers) because they have a mental disability-- he had Schizophrenia. Being able to integrate what he thought and how he thought into a robot would mean that someone understood it.... someone would have to be able to make sense of "the pink light talking to me is god".
Simply put, you would have to say that there is a finite amount of creativity in humans, so that nothing new will ever come. You would have also have to be able to predict that future, so that you will know the limit of human creativity to even come close to it.
 
creativedreams said:
I certainly believe it is quite possible.
Each person has their own types of reactions or problem solving. If a robot is programed with all scenarios with all personality types a robot may have an enormous amount of ways to problem solve or an enormous number of ways to be creative. Perhaps a robot can even take in and load all new information as it comes and add it to make its problem solving abilities infinite. In other words a computer can learn and be far more smarter or adjust to fit in with all personality types it encounters.
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Very well put, interesting, I've never though about it like that :)
 
Arch Enemy said:
In order for a computer to be as intelligent as a human, a human would have to create it. We barely understand how human intelligence, or the human brain in general, works. You have award winning authors like Philip K. Dick (science-fiction) who are writers (good writers) because they have a mental disability-- he had Schizophrenia. Being able to integrate what he thought and how he thought into a robot would mean that someone understood it.... someone would have to be able to make sense of "the pink light talking to me is god".
Simply put, you would have to say that there is a finite amount of creativity in humans, so that nothing new will ever come. You would have also have to be able to predict that future, so that you will know the limit of human creativity to even come close to it.
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Everything a human does can all be broken down to patterns.

Just equate personality types to a given circumstance and reactions are very predictable.

Add specifically their genes into the equation, which are developed and formed from their ancestors history and experience plus theirs personally and you can even more specifically predict exact patterns on how a human will react to every situation and which fork in the road they will take as each fork comes along.

Put this into a computer program and you have a robot personality that is indistinguishable from a human personality.

Make the robot so it can load all information as it comes in (either hears the information or downloads it) and it can learn too.
 
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creativedreams said:
Everything a human does can all be broken down to patterns.

Just equate personality types to a given circumstance and reactions are very predictable.

Add specifically their genes into the equation, which are developed and formed from their ancestors history and experience plus theirs personally and you can even more specifically predict exact patterns on how a human will react to every situation and which fork in the road they will take as each fork comes along.

Put this into a computer program and you have a robot personality that is indistinguishable from a human personality.

Make the robot so it can load all information as it comes in (either hears the information or downloads it) and it can learn too.
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I will agree with you that reactions are, typically predictable in humans as they follow a pattern of experience-- learned through cultures and all the consists of the human's surroundings. However I believe reactions and thoughts are two different things. Reactions come from the muscle-memory, and memory-reactions, as described by culture. These are characterizied by no thought and primordial instincts taking over.

On the other-side, we have thought. Consciousness that allows for us to scope through our reactions/experiences and contemplate them. I do not think we entirely understand thought, and how it works. For all we know, it is in the realm of the metaphysical. Therefore, I don't think we, as the creators of droids, could mimic thought, as we fully do not understand it ourselves.

If that makes sense.
 
AuDioFreaK39 said:
This is exactly what I plan to study and base my career on as I enter college, for the rest of my life. Artificial Intelligence, philosophy and cognitive theories, and Intelligence Amplification, research and development.
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Wow...when I was young I entertained the thought of getting a masters in each...Biology, Computer Programming, and Electronic Engineering and then keep studying and researching because I fully believed we not only could build robots smarter than us, but even go so far as to keep tissue alive around it.

If a robot can take in imformation like I said and store it and incorporate it to problem solve (within control limits or laws) then the robots IQ would be infinitely higher than a humans because it will remember everything and have an infinite problem solving search menu (like a google search) and then incorporate which action is best. With instant searches and instant actions then the robot may not only act as fluidlly as a human but perhaps even operate at super high speeds. Depends on the reaction speed mode it is set at.....:)
 
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creativedreams said:
Wow...when I was young I entertained the thought of getting a masters in each...Biology, Computer Programming, and Electronic Engineering and then keep studying and researching because I fully believed we not only could build robots smarter than us, but even go so far as to keep tissue alive around it.

If a robot can take in imformation like I said and store it and incorporate it to problem solve (within control limits or laws) then the robots IQ would be infinitely higher than a humans because it will remember everything and have an infinite problem solving search menu (like a google search) and then incorporate which action is best. With instant searches and instant actions then the robot may not only act as fluidlly as a human but perhaps even operate at super high speeds. Depends on the reaction speed mode it is set at.....:)
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Indeed. I envision a world where internet connectivity is ubiquitous and all textual information (libraries of books and related human knowledge) has begun the process of digitization by intelligent robots who are able to scan the pages line by line and add it to the finite sum of all human knowledge, an internet that we cannot begin to even comprehend possible today. :cool:

As storage mediums such as optical media are being phased out and flash-based memory is being developed at exponential levels of storage, this could, in effect, allow each and every individual AI to have the sum of all human knowledge with it at all times. The massive internet of tomorrow would merely provide a consistent stream of updated information to those AI.
 
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creativedreams said:
Wow...when I was young I entertained the thought of getting a masters in each...Biology, Computer Programming, and Electronic Engineering and then keep studying and researching because I fully believed we not only could build robots smarter than us, but even go so far as to keep tissue alive around it.
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Sounds like your parental guardians gave you a lot of science fictions movies to watch ;)
 
JoeMama said:
Same here!

I still have it in me - I loved the movie "Ironman" - it was sicko!!!
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I love the better space exploration movies!!!

The universe is mind boggling in vastness and possibilities!

I often daydream of what types of planetary ecosystems are out there?

Seems like real life on earth is almost more diverse than the imagination!
Can you imagine the diversity in a Billion Earths!!!....Way cool!
 
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creativedreams said:
I love the better space exploration movies!!!

The universe is mind boggling in vastness and possibilities!

I often daydream of what types of planetary ecosystems are out there?

Seems like real life on earth is almost more diverse than the imagination!
Can you imagine the diversity in a Billion Earths!!!....Way cool!
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Yea, like they say it was a one in a billionth, kagilionth...chance that the world would turn out this way from the Big Bang - like everything had to be just right for life on earth to come out as we know it...

But Key Word here "as we know it" - for all we know, there could be other life forms, not Carbon based - the only reason why we assume that a carbon based life form is the only one is that we live on only one earth, with a set up that way!

But imagine life forms base Tin, or base Uranium or plutonium for that matter (radioactive...cool!)

:stars: ...mind boggling
 
JoeMama said:
Yea, like they say it was a one in a billionth, kagilionth...chance that the world would turn out this way from the Big Bang - like everything had to be just right for life on earth to come out as we know it...

But Key Word here "as we know it" - for all we know, there could be other life forms, not Carbon based - the only reason why we assume that a carbon based life form is the only one is that we live on only one earth, with a set up that way!

But imagine life forms base Tin, or base Uranium or plutonium for that matter (radioactive...cool!)

:stars: ...mind boggling
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Yes, not much unlike the spectrum of freshwater fish vs saltwater fish.
Or life that intakes carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.
I'm sure the posibilities are almost endless as to what is needed as a biological/chemical mixture...:)
 
creativedreams said:
Yes, not much unlike the spectrum of freshwater fish vs saltwater fish.
Or life that intakes carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.
I'm sure the posibilities are almost endless as to what is needed as a biological/chemical mixture...:)
Click to expand...

yea, and imagine a whole new periodic table with new elements...wow...
 
JoeMama said:
Do you think it is possible to make something (like a robot) thats 'creativity' is greater than that of a human?

Or can you make a robot with greater 'intelligence' than that of a human? In which case that robot would know he is greater than you, and take advantage of you...(IRobot anyone?)

Basically, can humans make something smarter/more creative than themselves?

It's a pretty deep topic :doh
Click to expand...

What is deep about it and why one has to think?

It had been proven mathematically - by 2 most celebrated theorems (actually they are like 1 coming from another 1) of the XXth century, - NO.
 
justone said:
What is deep about it and why one has to think?

It had been proven mathematically - by 2 most celebrated theorems (actually they are like 1 coming from another 1) of the XXth century, - NO.
Click to expand...

But i'm sure those theorums make a few assumptions...
 
As long as robots won't be able to "feel" through the senses, the robot won't be capable to think by itself.

We eat, we sh*t, we learn to know the world around us through a process of step by step using our senses, while robots can't do that because robots are just programed to use and re-use an input memory. In order to be creative you must "feel", without it, you are just a mechanical mess.
 
It all depends on what you mean by 'creativity' and 'intelligence.' Computers are already perfectly capable of designing new things, and are in some cases much better than people. A while back NASA completed a famous project in which they used a genetic algorithm (wiki) to design an antenna. The result was something that no human would ever have produced, and performed much better.

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Source [NASA Intelligent Systems Division | Computer-Automated Evolution of an X-Band Antenna for NASA’s Space Technology 5 Mission] (PDF Direct Link)

Does that make the computers that ran the code creative? If the computer's production outperforms what the people who made it can do, does that make their creation more intelligent than them?
 
Kernel Sanders said:
It all depends on what you mean by 'creativity' and 'intelligence.' Computers are already perfectly capable of designing new things, and are in some cases much better than people. A while back NASA completed a famous project in which they used a genetic algorithm (wiki) to design an antenna. The result was something that no human would ever have produced, and performed much better.

9sh549.png


2s1rqr9.png


2v2aww6.png

Source [NASA Intelligent Systems Division | Computer-Automated Evolution of an X-Band Antenna for NASA’s Space Technology 5 Mission] (PDF Direct Link)

Does that make the computers that ran the code creative? If the computer's production outperforms what the people who made it can do, does that make their creation more intelligent than them?
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Such is laughable.

Tell me, who in the world will buy such a twisted arms antenna?

And the difference between "intelligence" and "creativity" is right here, that we humans not only go for the best design to be applied for better reception but also the best design in aesthetics.

Machines can't do both tasks at the same time, unless you programed them "at your taste" to design things, and even so, their programs will encounter contradictory priorities to select which program must rule, the technical one with twisted arms or the aesthetic one with better looking designs.

Go ahead now, send this message of mine to NASA so they will include secretly my idea to their programs and next year they will claim that their dumb machines have "evolved" again and that they "also" can design good looking antennas...:coffeepap
 
conquer said:
Such is laughable.

Tell me, who in the world will buy such a twisted arms antenna?
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NASA designed them for a specific program. Three antennae that they developed though the above program are currently deployed in space

And the difference between "intelligence" and "creativity" is right here, that we humans not only go for the best design to be applied for better reception but also the best design in aesthetics.
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Being pretty is a horrible measure of an antenna, and furthermore you completely missed my point. A computer created that antenna. Does that make it creative?

Machines can't do both tasks at the same time, unless you programed them "at your taste" to design things, and even so, their programs will encounter contradictory priorities to select which program must rule, the technical one with twisted arms or the aesthetic one with better looking designs.
Click to expand...

One could easily add a notion of aesthetics into the fitness function of a genetic algorithm. For NASA's application it would be completely retarded to do so, but it is far from impossible

Go ahead now, send this message of mine to NASA so they will include secretly my idea to their programs and next year they will claim that their dumb machines have "evolved" again and that they "also" can design good looking antennas...:coffeepap
Click to expand...

I can't fathom why you're harping on about 'good looking antennas.' NASA wasn't designing something pretty and it is not a shortcoming of computers that they did not. If making 'pretty things' is necessary for intelligence (an idiotic notion, but whatever, I'll run with it) I would direct you to the Electric Sheep screensaver. When you have this screensaver installed, you can at your leisure mark whatever the screensaver happens to be showing as either good or bad. That input is used with another genetic algorithm to create new images and animations based on what people like and don't like. The results are often quite spectacular.

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I would suggest downloading it and running it for a few minutes for a better idea. Still images cannot do Electric Sheep justice
 
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conquer said:
As long as robots won't be able to "feel" through the senses, the robot won't be capable to think by itself.

We eat, we sh*t, we learn to know the world around us through a process of step by step using our senses, while robots can't do that because robots are just programed to use and re-use an input memory. In order to be creative you must "feel", without it, you are just a mechanical mess.
Click to expand...

I disagree because I believe we would still follow the same patterns (choices) given the circumstances of the variables at the time.

What we feel or have for as a sense of emotion for the situation is just a bi-product or side effect of the situation.

I also believe that through many more years of evolution humans may eventually lose their emotions because all we need is logical decision making and emotions even hinder the proliferation of a species.
 
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