Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been taught that societal expectation is to get married first and then to have children-- and in any case, even a couple of demonstrable infertility has the capacity to adopt children.
Notably, however, adoption agencies consider the issue of whether or not the prospective are parents are already married in making any determinations of their suitability to raise a child.
You mean one line in the declaration of independence?Yet look what made it into the documents. :doh
In fact, gay couples can adopt children. So again, where is the impetus for not allowing gays to marry again?
How do you explain it?Prove that if one is born homosexual it is a biological error,
How do you explain it?
Shouldn't we check with everyone else in the world first?I'm not opposed to homosexual couples getting married. In fact, I encourage it, especially if they're planning on raising children.
Shouldn't we check with everyone else in the world first?
How do you explain it?
Shouldn't we check with everyone else in the world first?
And yet the human race survived for hundreds of thousands of years without marriage. Wonder how they did that :shock:Here it seems you are trying to further compartmentalize the various functions of marriage. Both Loving and Skinner refer to marriage as critical to human survival, and in context they were not merely referring to children being raised, but consieved in marriage.
It is a package deal.
Biologically, I would assume.
Prove that if one is born homosexual it is a biological error,
Generally they did it within a society with its own complex bonds, institutions, associations, functions, ideas, statuses, beliefs and roles. Just as ours has.And yet the human race survived for hundreds of thousands of years without marriage. Wonder how they did that :shock:
If that were true, then all partners who have no children would be denied marriage licenses.
Try again.
I've already given a sample of supporting evidence in post 192, and while I may be willing to give additional examples, I have no interest in trying to conclusively prove beyond a reasonable doubt my position in this light weight thread.
Here it seems you are trying to further compartmentalize the various functions of marriage. Both Loving and Skinner refer to marriage as critical to human survival, and in context they were not merely referring to children being raised, but consieved in marriage.
It is a package deal.
I never claimed that the study identified errors.
I said that I interpreted the differences illustrated in the study as errors, ie; my opinion.
I hope you can see the difference there.
This does not address any point of my argument.
Both Loving and Skinner refer to marriage as critical to human survival, and in context they were not merely referring to children being raised, but consieved in marriage.
The typical child raised by gays being equal too children coming from the 50%+ dysfunctional hetero homes is hardly a convincing argument, even if simply raising children were the only element composing a marriage, since the 50%+ dysfunctional homes are another problem. All your saying here is that gay marriage would perpetuate existing dysfunctions. Your point here is at best benign.
As I said, which you chose to ignore before and will thus likely choose to ignore again here: raising children is a part of the deal, only a part, and does not-in-and-of-itself justify allowing a given marriage lest we also allow incest and polygamy.
This entire exchange miss-assumes that the gay marriage movement is based on what is best for children and families.
This is of course not the case, as the pro-gm argument is about legitimizing the gay identity in the public eye. Sex and sexuality is the priority issue, financial benefits second. Children and family take a very distant 3rd place when they're even considered at all.
If the main pro-gm argument were about children and families first, with all else barely mentioned and considered incidental, I would be far more likely to support gay marriage.
How do you explain it?
No, my statement is accurate. Promoting child rearing is the purpose. However, the government cannot predict whether children will or will not be a result of the union. There are also other purposes, however, for the parameters of this discussion, child rearing is the key one.
Yes that is one of the biggest purposes of marriage as well as its place at the core of the family an important intermediate association between the state and the individual.
However as I said one must try and avoid naked functionalism. The ideological and tradition ideas behind marriage are very important because men do not live by function alone as important as it is. We must take care to preserve the fabric of ideational factors that partly make up marriage in our society as well as the functional ones and therefore change it cautiously and with the maximum amount of continuity with the old beliefs.
I'm not opposed to homosexual couples getting married. In fact, I encourage it, especially if they're planning on raising children.
No, my statement is accurate. Promoting child rearing is the purpose. However, the government cannot predict whether children will or will not be a result of the union. There are also other purposes, however, for the parameters of this discussion, child rearing is the key one.
Then you have no problem with gay marriage? Then what are you arguing about?
Why is that? The government can certainly be positive that women past child-rearing age, infertile couples, or those who adamantly do not want children will never have them, yet they issue licenses anyhow. In fact, nowhere on any of the paperwork for a marriage license are intending to have children mentioned as a prerequisite for getting married.
So how do you support your claim or are you just making it up?
Why is that? The government can certainly be positive that women past child-rearing age, infertile couples, or those who adamantly do not want children will never have them, yet they issue licenses anyhow. In fact, nowhere on any of the paperwork for a marriage license are intending to have children mentioned as a prerequisite for getting married.
So how do you support your claim or are you just making it up?
Firstly, this is not made up, it is one of the purposes that government supports and encourages marriage. Secondly, you are still missing the point. I am not saying that this is the only reason government encourages marriage, nor am I saying that those who do not have children should not get married, or the government would prevent them from getting married. You are getting defensive for nothing. I am discussing the child-rearing position in the context of this discussion.
I wasn't suggesting that, I support gay marriage cautiously.How does gay marriage cause anything negative with someones straight marriage? How does that inhibit it at all?
I'd really like you to explicitly explain what will go wrong if we were to allow gays to marry (which they already can do whether the state recognises it or not)
That is because institutions often have ideational factors beyond its function for society and these can be very important. Marriage helps to create children and to create the core of the important institution of the family but this kind of talk is not why the individual gets married, he does it mostly due to its ideational place within society as the cementment of love, union before god etc etc.Why is that? The government can certainly be positive that women past child-rearing age, infertile couples, or those who adamantly do not want children will never have them, yet they issue licenses anyhow. In fact, nowhere on any of the paperwork for a marriage license are intending to have children mentioned as a prerequisite for getting married.
So how do you support your claim or are you just making it up?
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