How the White House Lost Control on Iran

[LowDown]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post:

It’s not often that a White House gets clobbered on a major foreign policy initiative, unanimously, in Congress. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s 19-0 vote on the Corker-Cardin measure after virulent administration opposition up until this morning was the end result of a series of events that have rendered a thumbs-down verdict on the president’s credibility in preventing a nuclear capable Iran.

The President's reaction to Netanyahu's speech to Congress shocked even liberals and Democrats with it's peevishness. It forced them to look at the substance of the agreement with Iran. They found that the President had shifted from dismantling the Iranian nuclear program to managing it; they found that the "framework" was a lie, that the "historic agreement" was nothing of the kind, that there was no agreement on any of the key issues. It raised serious concerns about the President's judgment.

 

[US Conservative]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post:



The President's reaction to Netanyahu's speech to Congress shocked even liberals and Democrats with it's peevishness. It forced them to look at the substance of the agreement with Iran. They found that the President had shifted from dismantling the Iranian nuclear program to managing it; they found that the "framework" was a lie, that the "historic agreement" was nothing of the kind, that there was no agreement on any of the key issues. It raised serious concerns about the President's judgment.

He wants political credit, and will be out of office before the deal has failed. Iran gets money, in fact its already gotten billions that will only further strengthen its military. It gets to sell more of its oil as well. All for a token delay in being able to break out with its nukes-and in the mean time it will only trigger a middle eastern nuke race. Israel got the nuke-and since then has never been attacked-Iran wants it to allow it to further its expansion. Iran has also refused to allow random inspections, or inspections on "military bases". It retains the ability to enrich uranium underground, where its protected from airstrikes, and it retains the ability to enrich uranium beyond the concentrations needed for any peaceful purpose.

And as bad-our Presidents "smart" diplomacy puts the onus on Russia to inspect Iran. Russia agreed this week to sell advanced missles to Iran, saying since this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes, theres no reason not to sell them. The French have been tougher than Obama.

This isn't stupidity-nobody is this stupid. Its a bad deal all around, but the President is blinded by his desire to get a talking point, and besides-he doesn't think the US should be telling Iran what to do. I'd be amazed if any agreement lasts, I very much expect the opposite to be true.

 

[joG]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post:



The President's reaction to Netanyahu's speech to Congress shocked even liberals and Democrats with it's peevishness. It forced them to look at the substance of the agreement with Iran. They found that the President had shifted from dismantling the Iranian nuclear program to managing it; they found that the "framework" was a lie, that the "historic agreement" was nothing of the kind, that there was no agreement on any of the key issues. It raised serious concerns about the President's judgment.

Obama is acting sort of uptight for a President. As though he were under pressure and against a wall and under deadly fire. As though he did not understand that it is not important who does the Iran deal or the Cuban one. It is not a question of vanity. It is national security this is about. He only needs to step back and take a deep breath and stop his agitated and lonesome hyperactivity, which is only making the situation he has created worse. Negotiate with the guys in the Senate and put together a good and transparent deal and it will fly. But the way he has been going, it could all end in tears.

 

[joG]

He wants political credit, and will be out of office before the deal has failed. Iran gets money, in fact its already gotten billions that will only further strengthen its military. It gets to sell more of its oil as well. All for a token delay in being able to break out with its nukes-and in the mean time it will only trigger a middle eastern nuke race. Israel got the nuke-and since then has never been attacked-Iran wants it to allow it to further its expansion. Iran has also refused to allow random inspections, or inspections on "military bases". It retains the ability to enrich uranium underground, where its protected from airstrikes, and it retains the ability to enrich uranium beyond the concentrations needed for any peaceful purpose.

And as bad-our Presidents "smart" diplomacy puts the onus on Russia to inspect Iran. Russia agreed this week to sell advanced missles to Iran, saying since this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes, theres no reason not to sell them. The French have been tougher than Obama.

This isn't stupidity-nobody is this stupid. Its a bad deal all around, but the President is blinded by his desire to get a talking point, and besides-he doesn't think the US should be telling Iran what to do. I'd be amazed if any agreement lasts, I very much expect the opposite to be true.

Russia, I hear, has already sold new missiles in anticipation of the lifting of sanctions to Iran.

 

[MMC]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post:



The President's reaction to Netanyahu's speech to Congress shocked even liberals and Democrats with it's peevishness. It forced them to look at the substance of the agreement with Iran. They found that the President had shifted from dismantling the Iranian nuclear program to managing it; they found that the "framework" was a lie, that the "historic agreement" was nothing of the kind, that there was no agreement on any of the key issues. It raised serious concerns about the President's judgment.

Mornin LD. :2wave: More important was the Passing of Legislation.....19-0 and Bo sent his spokesman out saying that the WH would now sign the bill. Nice and meek like.

To late tho.....its a loss for BO, and he tried to save face with saying he would accept it now, at the last final minute. He was totally opposed to it.



Panel unanimously approves Iran bill after surprise White House retreat

Just hours after the White House withdrew its opposition to a bill requiring Congressional oversight on any nuclear deal with Iran, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee unanimously approved the legislation, called the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015, prompting a victory lap by the bill’s author, committee chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn.

“This legislation is exactly the congressional review that we’ve been working on since day one,” Corker said in his opening remarks to the notably uncontentious hearing. His tone mixed delighted disbelief with a not-too-subtle thumb in the eye of the administration, which had reversed its long-standing position against any encroachment on the president’s foreign-policy prerogatives. “I know they’ve relented because of what they believe the outcome is going to be here,” Corker said. “I think that the reason the White House has taken this position over the past two hours is that they see how many senators are supporting this.”

Hours earlier, Kerry, Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz and Treasury Secretary Jack Lew had briefed senators on the ongoing multilateral nuclear negotiations. They reiterated the administration’s opposition to Congress moving forward on the Corker legislation before the P5+1 negotiators reached a potential agreement in June, according to members leaving that meeting, including Corker himself......snip~

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/panel-unanimously-approves-iran-bill-after-116418118391.html

 

[Ockham]

First, the WH never had control of Iran so they couldn't possibly lose it. Even with the sanctions Iran was not under control by any stretch of the imagination. Obama's want for accomplishments to add to his Presidential library (yes, I really do think it's that superficial and moronic) over rides the need to do the right thing. Crippling sanctions and isolation were needed before negotiation. Instead, we fore go such negotiations from a place of power and decide it's in our national interest to negotiate from a position of weakness. Par for the course with this WH.

 

[MMC]

First, the WH never had control of Iran so they couldn't possibly lose it. Even with the sanctions Iran was not under control by any stretch of the imagination. Obama's want for accomplishments to add to his Presidential library (yes, I really do think it's that superficial and moronic) over rides the need to do the right thing. Crippling sanctions and isolation were needed before negotiation. Instead, we fore go such negotiations from a place of power and decide it's in our national interest to negotiate from a position of weakness. Par for the course with this WH.

Mornin Ockham :2wave: Which BO just showed his hand on how it was all political like.

 

[eohrnberger]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post:

The President's reaction to Netanyahu's speech to Congress shocked even liberals and Democrats with it's peevishness. It forced them to look at the substance of the agreement with Iran. They found that the President had shifted from dismantling the Iranian nuclear program to managing it; they found that the "framework" was a lie, that the "historic agreement" was nothing of the kind, that there was no agreement on any of the key issues. It raised serious concerns about the President's judgment.

A clear case of Obama having been out maneuvered by the Iranians during the negotiations, as if that's any sort of surprise.

First, the WH never had control of Iran so they couldn't possibly lose it. Even with the sanctions Iran was not under control by any stretch of the imagination. Obama's want for accomplishments to add to his Presidential library (yes, I really do think it's that superficial and moronic) over rides the need to do the right thing. Crippling sanctions and isolation were needed before negotiation. Instead, we fore go such negotiations from a place of power and decide it's in our national interest to negotiate from a position of weakness. Par for the course with this WH.

True. Iran was never Obama's to control, and this was an unrealistic expectation. However, that doesn't mean that one needs to bend over backwards, and compromise foundational principals, such as "Iran should not have the ability to crate nuclear weapons period" (or similar), which it appears Obama is more than willing to do. In negotiations, when foundational principals are attempted to be negotiated away, you have to have the courage to walk away, and Obama doesn't.

Mornin LD. :2wave: More important was the Passing of Legislation.....19-0 and Bo sent his spokesman out saying that the WH would now sign the bill. Nice and meek like.

To late tho.....its a loss for BO, and he tried to save face with saying he would accept it now, at the last final minute. He was totally opposed to it.

Panel unanimously approves Iran bill after surprise White House retreat

Just hours after the White House withdrew its opposition to a bill requiring Congressional oversight on any nuclear deal with Iran, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee unanimously approved the legislation, called the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015, prompting a victory lap by the bill’s author, committee chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn.

“This legislation is exactly the congressional review that we’ve been working on since day one,” Corker said in his opening remarks to the notably uncontentious hearing. His tone mixed delighted disbelief with a not-too-subtle thumb in the eye of the administration, which had reversed its long-standing position against any encroachment on the president’s foreign-policy prerogatives. “I know they’ve relented because of what they believe the outcome is going to be here,” Corker said. “I think that the reason the White House has taken this position over the past two hours is that they see how many senators are supporting this.”

Hours earlier, Kerry, Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz and Treasury Secretary Jack Lew had briefed senators on the ongoing multilateral nuclear negotiations. They reiterated the administration’s opposition to Congress moving forward on the Corker legislation before the P5+1 negotiators reached a potential agreement in June, according to members leaving that meeting, including Corker himself......snip~

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/panel-unanimously-approves-iran-bill-after-116418118391.html

Wasn't that the congressional legislation that he just previously threatened to veto? An interesting reversal if so.

 

[MMC]

A clear case of Obama having been out maneuvered by the Iranians during the negotiations, as if that's any sort of surprise.


True. Iran was never Obama's to control, and this was an unrealistic expectation. However, that doesn't mean that one needs to bend over backwards, and compromise foundational principals, such as "Iran should not have the ability to crate nuclear weapons period" (or similar), which it appears Obama is more than willing to do. In negotiations, when foundational principals are attempted to be negotiated away, you have to have the courage to walk away, and Obama doesn't.


Wasn't that the congressional legislation that he just previously threatened to veto? An interesting reversal if so.

Mornin EB. :2wave: Yep it was the bill he was threatening to veto. Even Hours earlier....Kerry and Crew were saying they were in Opposition to the Corker bill. Once BO knew that Demos were joining in.....he backtracked. So now he will sign the bill rather come out having his veto feel some smack down.

 

[VanceMack]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt (as in...not assuming he is corrupt and in cahoots with an extremist fundamentalist regime), I think Obama s actions in Iraq are identical to his actions on Obamacare. He is desperate for a legacy and he just by gawd has to pass SOMETHING...ANYTHING. I think he is willing to eat a dick if it means getting something on paper that he can sign and point to as a foreign policy 'success'.

 

[polgara]

First, the WH never had control of Iran so they couldn't possibly lose it. Even with the sanctions Iran was not under control by any stretch of the imagination. Obama's want for accomplishments to add to his Presidential library (yes, I really do think it's that superficial and moronic) over rides the need to do the right thing. Crippling sanctions and isolation were needed before negotiation. Instead, we fore go such negotiations from a place of power and decide it's in our national interest to negotiate from a position of weakness. Par for the course with this WH.

Greetings, Ockham. :2wave:

I could almost hear the phone calls from SoS Kerry, who was at the negotiating table, to BHO. "what do you want me to do now?" While we have clout, so do the other five countries involved in the negotiating process, and France, especially, was not willing to roll over, and they made that very clear! Iran will get a nuclear weapon, probably sooner than expected, IMO, and unless Israel feels they cannot live with that and bombs their sites, it's going to happen. While these talks drag on and on, Iran is getting closer and closer to accomplishing what their objectives have always been.

Iran wins - the world loses. It's noteworthy to learn that Russia has decided to lift their sanctions and will now send equipment and scientists to assist Iran. It looks to me like Russia has already decided that further talks are pointless, so why pretend otherwise? If Iran could have been trusted previously, none of this would be happening now. Agreements are worthless pieces of paper if the terms are violated.

 

[humbolt]

Mornin EB. :2wave: Yep it was the bill he was threatening to veto. Even Hours earlier....Kerry and Crew were saying they were in Opposition to the Corker bill. Once BO knew that Demos were joining in.....he backtracked. So now he will sign the bill rather come out having his veto feel some smack down.

Congress finally realized what our foreign adversaries have known for some time. A red line isn't a red line if one gets in Obama's face. He's weak.

 

[humbolt]

Greetings, Ockham. :2wave:

I could almost hear the phone calls from SoS Kerry, who was at the negotiating table, to BHO. "what do you want me to do now?" While we have clout, so do the other five countries involved in the negotiating process, and France, especially, was not willing to roll over, and they made that very clear! Iran will get a nuclear weapon, probably sooner than expected, IMO, and unless Israel feels they cannot live with that and bombs their sites, it's going to happen. While these talks drag on and on, Iran is getting closer and closer to accomplishing what their objectives have always been.

Iran wins - the world loses. It's noteworthy to learn that Russia has decided to lift their sanctions and will now send equipment and scientists to assist Iran. It looks to me like Russia has already decided that further talks are pointless, so why pretend otherwise? If Iran could have been trusted previously, none of this would be happening now. Agreements are worthless pieces of paper if the terms are violated.

Morning, Pol. What has happend with the sale of the S-300's to Iran - which blind-sided this administration - is that Obama has likely pushed Israel into taking action before those systems become operational. That would put the schedule for an attack within the year. If Israel takes that route, we will not be advised in advance.

 

[polgara]

Congress finally realized what our foreign adversaries have known for some time. A red line isn't a red line if one gets in Obama's face. He's weak.

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

I'm very glad that Congress chose to get hardnosed about BHO's overreach on this matter, and voted overwhelmingly bi-partisan to accomplish it. Why shouldn't they have - this affects every one of us, and the rest of the world, too, for that matter! "Secret talks," indeed - on a matter like this? Hogwash!

 

[Bethlehem Bill]

• ISIS is just a jv team
• bergdal served with distinction - was worth 5 hardened prisoners
• yemen is a model of success
• we can pull out of iraq completely, it will be fine
• who cares what happened in libya

maybe, just maybe, he's lost credibility in the foreign policy space, and enough people are getting tired of him acting without the support of his own country. Dear President Obama - please check with America first, many of us think that our opinion and approval should be placed in higher regard than the "international community" or the United Nations. we have a mechanism for this - its called congress. i know that the prez has certain abilities and responsibilities delegated to that office, but the problem is he has messed up too many other times.

once the general provisions of the framework were made public, and the people had a chance to compare this "Deal" against even the prior statements of the president himself, they concluded that this it was awful. the senators who want to continue their careers beyond the end of obama's term are smart to get on the side of public opinion.

obama is a lame duck, and theres no reason for anyone in the general public to support a ridiculous agreement, or anyone in congress (D or R) to support this, just so he can add another "accomplishment" to his legacy.

 

[eohrnberger]

Mornin EB. :2wave: Yep it was the bill he was threatening to veto. Even Hours earlier....Kerry and Crew were saying they were in Opposition to the Corker bill. Once BO knew that Demos were joining in.....he backtracked. So now he will sign the bill rather come out having his veto feel some smack down.

I have a feeling that if Obama had vetoed that legislation, that there would have been enough votes to override it. If that's likely the case, he's backing off because he sees that he can't win this.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt (as in...not assuming he is corrupt and in cahoots with an extremist fundamentalist regime), I think Obama s actions in Iraq are identical to his actions on Obamacare. He is desperate for a legacy and he just by gawd has to pass SOMETHING...ANYTHING. I think he is willing to eat a dick if it means getting something on paper that he can sign and point to as a foreign policy 'success'.

Yeah, it's all about feeding his narcissism and having something to point at later, regardless if it's good for the country or world, just as long as he believes that it's good for him.

Greetings, Ockham. :2wave:

I could almost hear the phone calls from SoS Kerry, who was at the negotiating table, to BHO. "what do you want me to do now?" While we have clout, so do the other five countries involved in the negotiating process, and France, especially, was not willing to roll over, and they made that very clear! Iran will get a nuclear weapon, probably sooner than expected, IMO, and unless Israel feels they cannot live with that and bombs their sites, it's going to happen. While these talks drag on and on, Iran is getting closer and closer to accomplishing what their objectives have always been.

Iran wins - the world loses. It's noteworthy to learn that Russia has decided to lift their sanctions and will now send equipment and scientists to assist Iran. It looks to me like Russia has already decided that further talks are pointless, so why pretend otherwise? If Iran could have been trusted previously, none of this would be happening now. Agreements are worthless pieces of paper if the terms are violated.

Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:
I think the entire process of negotiating was worthless and wasted effort as hasn't Iran been violating their commitments all along? Besides, I get the impression that a real negotiated agreement wasn't what Iran was playing for, they were just playing for time, and Obama was just more than happy to give it to them, as little cost to themselves, and great cost to the US and the world. I figure that it's about as good as he can deliver in the international arena.

Congress finally realized what our foreign adversaries have known for some time. A red line isn't a red line if one gets in Obama's face. He's weak.

Yep. Too bad they've learned this far too late. Would have been much better had they figured this out within the first 2 years of this administration. Seems all the foreign leaders had it figured by then.

 

[MMC]

Congress finally realized what our foreign adversaries have known for some time. A red line isn't a red line if one gets in Obama's face. He's weak.

Really it took Democrats, to finally figure out that their jobs are more important than BO now. Wonder if they know about BO's red line with Russia and their Missile System, that Putin just stepped over.

 

[iguanaman]

Russia, I hear, has already sold new missiles in anticipation of the lifting of sanctions to Iran.

Russia will lift sanctions regardless of whether an agreement is made. That is what many here are so clueless about. The sanctions were never going to last.

 

[iguanaman]

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

I'm very glad that Congress chose to get hardnosed about BHO's overreach on this matter, and voted overwhelmingly bi-partisan to accomplish it. Why shouldn't they have - this affects every one of us, and the rest of the world, too, for that matter! "Secret talks," indeed - on a matter like this? Hogwash!

The Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. If there is an international agreement with Iran they will have to vote to approve it. To do otherwise would expose them as warmongers and insult our allies. The sanctions will be lifted too.

 

[humbolt]

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

I'm very glad that Congress chose to get hardnosed about BHO's overreach on this matter, and voted overwhelmingly bi-partisan to accomplish it. Why shouldn't they have - this affects every one of us, and the rest of the world, too, for that matter! "Secret talks," indeed - on a matter like this? Hogwash!

Yeah - the talks wouldn't be secret if they could've stood the light of day.

 

[humbolt]

Really it took Democrats, to finally figure out that their jobs are more important than BO now. Wonder if they know about BO's red line with Russia and their Missile System, that Putin just stepped over.

In the end it looks like the administration has managed to achieve the very opposite of their stated goals. They're pouring more fuel on the fire burning in the ME. Every chess piece this administration plays has Obama's face on it - he can't escape it. History won't remember Valerie Jarret.

 

[VanceMack]

Its kinda telling that NOW the Obama administration is willing to give Congress oversight on any deals. Nice. after realizing he is in over his head, its nice to be able to have congress bail him out...then he will be able to sit back and blame any failings on Congress. The only part of this that will be interesting is to see how congress responds. Obama ****ed up, alienated Israel, and jumped into bed with people that he KNOWS hates him and cant be trusted. Now...he is going to turn the turd sandwich over to congress.

 

[Fletch]

The Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. If there is an international agreement with Iran they will have to vote to approve it. To do otherwise would expose them as warmongers and insult our allies. The sanctions will be lifted too.

First of all, I don't think there is any reason to believe there will be an agreement of any kind. The two sides don't seem to be close on any of the really important issues. For an agreement to be accepted by both parties in the Senate, the Iranians would likely have to concede on virtually every major sticking point. I don't see any evidence that is going to happen. If it is the US that concedes to Iranian demands, Obama is going to have to deal with a lack of support among his own party.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

The Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. If there is an international agreement with Iran they will have to vote to approve it. To do otherwise would expose them as warmongers and insult our allies. The sanctions will be lifted too.

How is that painting themselves into a corner? If there is an agreement which is good for us and they approve it, they are viewed as putting politics aside and doing what is right for the country. If they are presented with a "bad" deal, then it is likely that there will be bipartisan support for rejecting it.

Either way I don't see how this hurts them.

 

[iguanaman]

First of all, I don't think there is any reason to believe there will be an agreement of any kind. The two sides don't seem to be close on any of the really important issues. For an agreement to be accepted by both parties in the Senate, the Iranians would likely have to concede on virtually every major sticking point. I don't see any evidence that is going to happen. If it is the US that concedes to Iranian demands, Obama is going to have to deal with a lack of support among his own party.

You forget that this would be a multi-lateral agreement comprising most of the free world powers. If one is made it will be because ALL those countries have agreed to the terms. If the U.S. Congress alone refuses to go along there will be consequences for the GOP. Is that not clear to you?