Trump urged Zelenskyy to cut a deal with Putin or risk facing destruction, FT reports

[multivita-man]

If he was looking to bring back the old ussr then we kinda do. Does nato play a role? Yes but we know he needs the region to survive

We had the chance to unwind NATO during the 1990s before Putin took power. We expanded NATO instead. In the 2000s, it wasn't Russia that invaded Ukraine; it was the US that invaded two countries halfway around the world and tried to rebuild them in our image.

 

[multivita-man]

Do you think Russia will stop killing Ukrainians if Zelensky surrenders? History suggests otherwise.

If they accept neutrality, yes. If they don't, no, UA forces will be slaughtered.

 

[anatta]

Plus there's something rather fatalistic about the determination that something will happen, regardless. That leaves no other solution to the Putin problem than a final solution

well something DID happen -none of it good after NATO expansion. Putin came to power partly as a result of Russia being humiliated Putin is a reaction to the Clinton meddling (etc) to install Yeltsin. THEN we blame Russia for "meddling in our election"

 

[Juin]

Do you think Russia will stop killing Ukrainians if Zelensky surrenders? History suggests otherwise.

No. Russians did not stop killing Apaches, Sioux, Cherokee, Navajo, Ute, Aztecs, Mayans after they surrendered, why should they stop now? Heck Russians did not stop killing Germans after the Nazis surrendered. The Russians even plastered the Japanese on point of surrender with two atomic bombs.

Zelensky should keep on fighting as history suggests

 

[anatta]

Trump explained that his position had changed "after getting to know and fully understand the Ukraine/Russia military and economic situation".

Kyiv can win all of Ukraine back from Russia, Trump says

The US president says Ukraine can win back land with support from Nato and Europe, marking a major shift in his position.

www.bbc.com

Ukraine can't win... It can win... It can't win. Yes. He has been very clear that it changes.

(your link)
Peskov, suggested the reason for Trump's change of tone was that he had just talked to the Ukrainian president. The US president, he told reporters, had made the comments "apparently under the influence of the vision put forward by Zelensky... this vision is in absolute contrast with our understanding of the current state of affairs"
~~
what you say is true, in that Trump is so transactional he'll repeat what his mind just heard. Trump's brain is stuck on hyperdrive
Despite this approach he's had some results, and in the long run only outcomes matter - not how it was done

 

[Juin]

well something DID happen -none of it good after NATO expansion. Putin came to power partly as a result of Russia being humiliated Putin is a reaction to the Clinton meddling (etc) to install Yeltsin. THEN we blame Russia for "meddling in our election"

Lol Yanks to the rescue! You know, without that Time headline it will be hard to convince anyone today that anyone meddled in the rise of Yeltsin

 

[anatta]

No. Russians did not stop killing Apaches, Sioux, Cherokee, Navajo, Ute, Aztecs, Mayans after they surrendered, why should they stop now? Heck Russians did not stop killing Germans after the Nazis surrendered. The Russians even plastered the Japanese on point of surrender with two atomic bombs.

Zelensky should keep on fighting as history suggests

I recognize the exasperation in your reply. But for now "Zelensky should keep on fighting as history suggests" seems the operative

 

[Elmo]

If they accept neutrality, yes. If they don't, no, UA forces will be slaughtered.

Russians have a history of murdering Ukrainians even when they share the SAME CITIZENSHIP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

So called "neutrality" certainly doesn't offer greater protection, and Putin is no better than his soviet forebears. He's happy to disappear his own citizens with secret police, poison politicians that displeased him, eliminate speech, and use his vassals (i.e. Belarus) as disposable fodder in future wars. A "neutral" Ukraine is a disarmed and isolated Ukraine. They would be vulnerable to all those predations and more. And they know it.

So I will repeat, Russians murdering Ukrainians will not stop with Ukrainian surrender.

 

[anatta]

Lol Yanks to the rescue! You know, without that Time headline it will be hard to convince anyone today that anyone meddled in the rise of Yeltsin

Clinton got down and dirty into marketing Yeltsin. The significance is because Yeltsin was a drunken boob, Putin and the nationalists were able to point to US meddling in their election. That set the tone for his rule

Putin was a hard nationalist of KGB experience. He was capable of restoring Russia and did to an extent. The over-extension into Ukr came with a price to pay

 

[Elmo]

No. Russians did not stop killing Apaches, Sioux, Cherokee, Navajo, Ute, Aztecs, Mayans after they surrendered, why should they stop now? Heck Russians did not stop killing Germans after the Nazis surrendered. The Russians even plastered the Japanese on point of surrender with two atomic bombs.

Zelensky should keep on fighting as history suggests

You make my point for me. You should probably think more carefully about all those examples.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Just think what the WORLD will be like (due to our military) if the US goes full Fascism.

Hell, we're already siding with Dictators/evil murderers like Putin.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Plus there's something rather fatalistic about the determination that something will happen, regardless. That leaves no other solution to the Putin problem than a final solution

Well.

There's some Nazi shit.

 

[Plasmaball]

We had the chance to unwind NATO during the 1990s before Putin took power. We expanded NATO instead. In the 2000s, it wasn't Russia that invaded Ukraine; it was the US that invaded two countries halfway around the world and tried to rebuild them in our image.

You talking Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[multivita-man]

Russians have a history of murdering Ukrainians even when they share the SAME CITIZENSHIP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

So called "neutrality" certainly doesn't offer greater protection, and Putin is no better than his soviet forebears. He's happy to disappear his own citizens with secret police, poison politicians that displeased him, eliminate speech, and use his vassals (i.e. Belarus) as disposable fodder in future wars. A "neutral" Ukraine is a disarmed and isolated Ukraine. They would be vulnerable to all those predations and more. And they know it.

So I will repeat, Russians murdering Ukrainians will not stop with Ukrainian surrender.

Ukrainians weren't slaughtered before the special operation. They had a chance to accept neutrality.

 

[multivita-man]

You talking Iraq and Afghanistan?

yes.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Ukrainians weren't slaughtered before the special operation. They had a chance to accept neutrality.

So now you're defending the killing of civilians.

Ew.

 

[Juin]

.

 

[multivita-man]

So now you're defending the killing of civilians.

Ew.

That is not what I said, but Slava Ukraini-bro propaganda.

 

[Bullseye]

Seems things will never change, Trump will always side with Putin. Trump basically used Russian talking points in his meeting with Zelenskyy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/19/trump-zelenskyy-putin.html

View attachment 67594055

And what would your advice be? Got nothing to do with Trump/Putin. It's called negotiation.

 

[Juin]

Russians have a history of murdering Ukrainians even when they share the SAME CITIZENSHIP.

The only reason there's a single Ukrainian alive today is that its Messiah Zelensky resurrected them from the dead.

 

[Juin]

You make my point for me. You should probably think more carefully about all those examples.

You have more than made your case for killer Russians, what more is there to think about?

 

[anatta]

.



View attachment 67594094

ROFL. he didn't have the cards?
When i watch Trump play these 2 it reminds of of the hot potato child game. who's the last to get stuck holding the hot potato?

If Trump pulls this off it (ceasefire+) it will be on his tenacity as much as arming up Ukr.
Still we haven't even had sit downs yet -the danger is arming up Ukr and extending the war.

 

[Bullseye]

There was no reason for America to weasel out of world leadership. That's on Trump. Giving Putin what he wants is the wrong way to go. You don't see that, but you will see it, likely when it's too late.

where do you see Trump "weaseling"? It's pretty obvious Putin's not going to retreat to previous lines. It's called negotiation - look it up.

 

[Lursa]

Zelensky can get peace if he throws in the towel. That's how Aztecas, Mayas, Incas, Sioux, Apache, Cherokee got whatever peace they got. The Europeans did not walk away in peace. Last I looked Putin is European, and acting as a typical European. It sucks, but that is the way of the powerful

Ah... "might makes right?" Harkening back to the Neanderthals.

Why does Ukraine have to concede anything? Russia is in the wrong, Russia invaded a sovereign country. Russia wants to demand what alliances Ukraine should be a member of.

Would that be acceptable for a country to do that to the US? Zelensky doesnt have the same strength but that doesnt mean is acceptable.

And he IS willing to make concessions. Where's Putin's answer? Where's TACO's?

Giving in to tyrants and invaders doesnt stop them, it encourages them.

 

[Lursa]

He's not.

He's leaving it up to Putin and Zelensky to figure it out.

That's complete bullshit. Putin wont meet with Zelensky.

He's using a very proud TACO to waddle back and forth as go-between. Putin pretends to want to negotiate, and stroking TACO the entire time...drawing it all out. His goal is intel, dropping of sanctions, a mouthpiece to dissuade Zelensky.