How can the right even suggest that they are Christian[W:487]

jbander · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Absentglare said:
I saw it. It was just straining to blame liberals for the failures of the conservative side of the equation. Liberals are open to helping the poor in any way, even if that means spending more money. Conservatives are not because of greed. That's not Christian, at all.

Well said and concise. I was always told about the Kochs unbelievable support for non profits, well they even said charities. The Koch that I looked at didn't give a dime that I could find to Charities. They were all non profits and they gave billions that can be found and multi billions that can't be found because they Con the Irs like the Regressive party itself does, using non profits so they don't have to tell where the money comes from and in both cases the Party's and the Kochs, I have to assume because they are ashamed of where they are putting their money. All the non profits that this criminal gave to were mostly to cover up the truth about global warming and attacking all aspects of life in America that is considered wasted because it doesn't go into their pockets. Their actions though are totally aligned with the Christian rights believe on all these issues. These are the leaders of the Christian right.

winston53660 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
And I'll remind you that Abraham was rich for his time, and he was in "Abraham's bosom." Job was also rich and God doubled his riches. He was called a righteous man. So you'll need to update your thinking on all that.

Cool I'll take a few wives

New International Version
Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah.

winston53660 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
That's a really poor argument, Frank.

(i.e. the Gospels).

And you are accusing someone of having a bad argument?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/i.e.

E.g - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Logicman · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

winston53660 said:
And you are accusing someone of having a bad argument?

Yeah, Frank. And you, always.

Logicman · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Absentglare said:
I saw it. It was just straining to blame liberals for the failures of the conservative side of the equation. Liberals are open to helping the poor in any way, even if that means spending more money. Conservatives are not because of greed. That's not Christian, at all.

Nonsense. Liberals are only generous with OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. Conservatives give more to charities than do liberals.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
That's a really poor argument, Frank.

The New Testament, for instance, is a compilation of over two dozen individual manuscripts which were floating around different localities at different times in the 1st century. They weren't compiled until much, much later. So that's multiple, independent confirmations.

So nice try.

You made the insinuation that the Bible is not about reality. I asked you to provide some examples from the Gospels to back up your claim, and you don't. You give me this nonsense:

Like I and others have stated, every time you're called to account for your claims, you run from it or post some meaningless drivel like we see above.

Being rational is coming to the party and trying to back up your insinuation that the Gospels are a source of superstitious fluff. Once again, you make these half-baked claims but can't back them up.

You have a problem dealing with and recognizing reality (i.e. the Gospels), Frank.

Up above, Jbander pretty much summed up the problem with you discussing Christianity, "Logic"man.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Logicman said:
We're talking about what the Bible (Word of God) says, Frank.

For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." - Romans 9:15

"For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil." - 1 Timothy 6:10

And Jesus doesn't say that the rich will not enter into heaven. He says they will have a real hard time getting in.

And I'll remind you that Abraham was rich for his time, and he was in "Abraham's bosom." Job was also rich and God doubled his riches. He was called a righteous man. So you'll need to update your thinking on all that.

Babble on...or get back to the subject.

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
That is not what the Bible says, Logicman.

Jesus said rich men will never get into Heaven.

He did not say anything about the love of money.

He didn't say, rich men will never get to heaven. He said, it'll be so much harder for rich men to get to heaven. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Why? For the love of money!
How many rich people are willing to give up all their riches, if ever they're put to the test?

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Absentglare said:
We all get flustered. Well, most of us, anyway.

Luckily, i suspect all my Christian peers are open to forgiveness.

I do not mean to offend anyone. I only mean to illuminate that Frank has raised a valid point in terms of the general tendency of American conservatives to turn a blind eye to the suffering of the poor in the political realm.

And we're illuminating that you and Frank Apisa are both turning a blind eye on the teachings of Christ! You're both dissing out disinformation, and outright lies.

You're both being dishonest in your method of debate.
You're not addressing the rebuttals directly. We've given several verses from the Bible that support our position, but you've yet to offer a single one that support yours. You've been asked several times to provide support from the Bible.

If you can't support your position, then you're both arguing from ignorance, at the very least.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

tosca1 said:
He didn't say, rich men will never get to heaven. He said, it'll be so much harder for rich men to get to heaven. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Why? For the love of money!
How many rich people are willing to give up all their riches, if ever they're put to the test?

He said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven.

There is no BIG DIFFERENCE, because a camel can never pass through the eye of a needle. (And please, don't give me that gate into Jerusalem nonsense about the needle.)

Jesus said anything about the "love of money." You Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus.

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
He said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven.

There is no BIG DIFFERENCE, because a camel can never pass through the eye of a needle. (And please, don't give me that gate into Jerusalem nonsense about the needle.)

Jesus said anything about the "love of money." You Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus.

It's called a hyperbole, Frank Apisa!

We also know a plank cannot fit in a man's eye...or that you cannot possibly swallow a camel!

Furthermore, you have to understand that Arabs tend to be more dramatic, and poetic, and passionate in their language.

The Persians expressed the concept of the impossible by saying it would be easier to put an elephant through the eye of a needle. The camel was a Jewish adaptation (the largest animal in Israel was a camel).

Jesus used this technique at other times, referring to a “plank” in one’s eye (Matthew 7:3-5) and swallowing a camel (Matthew 23:24).

Jesus’ answer is the basis of the gospel: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26). Men are saved through God’s gifts of grace, mercy, and faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Nothing we do earns salvation for us. It is the poor in spirit who inherit the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:3), those who recognize their spiritual poverty and their utter inability to do anything to justify themselves to a holy God.

The rich man so often is blind to his spiritual poverty because he is proud of his accomplishments and has contented himself with his wealth.
He is as likely to humble himself before God as a camel is to crawl through the eye of a needle.

What did Jesus mean when He said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
He said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven.

There is no BIG DIFFERENCE, because a camel can never pass through the eye of a needle. (And please, don't give me that gate into Jerusalem nonsense about the needle.)

Jesus said anything about the "love of money." You Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus.

If that were so, then why did God reward Job with even more riches?

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Jesus said anything about the "love of money." You Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus.

That's the second time you mentioned that. Explain exactly what you mean by that.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

tosca1 said:
It's called a hyperbole, Frank Apisa!

We also know a plank cannot fit in a man's eye...or that you cannot possibly swallow a camel!

Furthermore, you have to understand that Arabs tend to be more dramatic, and poetic, and passionate in their language.

The Persians expressed the concept of the impossible by saying it would be easier to put an elephant through the eye of a needle. The camel was a Jewish adaptation (the largest animal in Israel was a camel).

Jesus used this technique at other times, referring to a “plank” in one’s eye (Matthew 7:3-5) and swallowing a camel (Matthew 23:24).

Jesus’ answer is the basis of the gospel: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26). Men are saved through God’s gifts of grace, mercy, and faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Nothing we do earns salvation for us. It is the poor in spirit who inherit the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:3), those who recognize their spiritual poverty and their utter inability to do anything to justify themselves to a holy God. The rich man so often is blind to his spiritual poverty because he is proud of his accomplishments and has contented himself with his wealth. He is as likely to humble himself before God as a camel is to crawl through the eye of a needle.

What did Jesus mean when He said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?

He is saying that a rich man cannot get into Heaven, Tosca.

But you are a Christian...so for the most part, you probably avoid thinking about what Jesus said.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

tosca1 said:
If that were so, then why did God reward Job with even more riches?

For the same reason The Wicked Queen gave Sleeping Beauty the apple!

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

tosca1 said:
That's the second time you mentioned that. Explain exactly what you mean by that.

That is the FIRST time I mentioned that.

What do you want explained, that Jesus never said anything about the love of money...or that you Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus?

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
He is saying that a rich man cannot get into Heaven, Tosca.

But you are a Christian...so for the most part, you probably avoid thinking about what Jesus said.

That's how you "debate," huh Frank? That's become a pattern with you.

When you can't refute....you simple reiterate. :mrgreen:

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
That is the FIRST time I mentioned that.

What do you want explained, that Jesus never said anything about the love of money...or that you Christians keep mixing up Paul with Jesus?

Yes, you did before!

Explain why you say I'm mixing up Jesus with Paul. Like as if what Paul said did not come from Jesus.

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Frank Apisa said:
For the same reason The Wicked Queen gave Sleeping Beauty the apple!

????

Meaning, you're stumped! :lol:

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

tosca1 said:
Yes, you did before!

Explain why you say I'm mixing up Jesus with Paul. Like as if what Paul said did not come from Jesus.

What Paul says...comes from Paul.

I said that Jesus did not say "the love of money is the root of all evil."

Paul did.

Jesus said that rich people were not going to get into Heaven (they have less chance of doing so than of a camel getting through the eye of a needle).

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

tosca1 said:
????

Meaning, you're stumped! :lol:

Meaning fairy tales sometimes don't make sense!

humbolt · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Absentglare said:
I saw it. It was just straining to blame liberals for the failures of the conservative side of the equation. Liberals are open to helping the poor in any way, even if that means spending more money. Conservatives are not because of greed. That's not Christian, at all.

Yes. Every time we don't help the poor I get more money. I'm not certain how I get it, or where it goes, but somewhere there's a pile of money for me that was saved by not giving it to the poor. And widows. Don't forget them either. I steal from them too. I sneak into their hovels while they're out cleaning the bathrooms of rich Ceo's, and I take all their stuff. I'd eat their babies too, but I have to steal a roasting pan first.

Frank Apisa · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

humbolt said:
Yes. Every time we don't help the poor I get more money. I'm not certain how I get it, or where it goes, but somewhere there's a pile of money for me that was saved by not giving it to the poor. And widows. Don't forget them either. I steal from them too. I sneak into their hovels while they're out cleaning the bathrooms of rich Ceo's, and I take all their stuff. I'd eat their babies too, but I have to steal a roasting pan first.

Damn!

Well...at least you get high marks for being honest!

humbolt · Dec 1, 2015

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Frank Apisa said:
Damn!

Well...at least you get high marks for being honest!

I never lie, and I read only good books, too. I'm off now to go steal tires. I don't know why other than because I'm conservative, which seems to be enough.

tosca1 · Dec 1, 2015

Frank Apisa said:
Meaning fairy tales sometimes don't make sense!

You're stumped.

How can the right even suggest that they are Christian[W:487]

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