The difference is that humans can make present and future choices based on the past...the difference, in simple terms, is memory...Peralin said:I'm trying to figure this out, but I could use some help. Why do humans make the choices that they do? The brain processes information, and then somehow we think it out and decide. But is it possible to know what choice will be made before the processing begins? Is the brian just a complicated machine, or is it something more. Obviously, I don't expect to find a correct answer, but I want to find out what other people think.
liberal1 said:Logic forms false conclusions
Peralin said:I'm trying to figure this out, but I could use some help. Why do humans make the choices that they do? The brain processes information, and then somehow we think it out and decide. But is it possible to know what choice will be made before the processing begins? Is the brian just a complicated machine, or is it something more. Obviously, I don't expect to find a correct answer, but I want to find out what other people think.
Engimo said:I think the question being asked here is more along the lines of "What makes our brain special?", the answer to which is "Not all that much".
While we most definitely do not understand the processes governining the operation of our brains and the way that they work, most people are in agreement that the brain is a distributed network of neurons running in parallel. This is in stark contrast to the serial processors that we utilize in modern computers, but there is no reason that we will find ourselves unable to replicate the functions of a brain artificially provided that we come to understand the mechanisms behind its function.
So, yes, the brain is a complicated machine - but one that is different on a very fundamental level to modern computers.
CaliNORML said:How are we different?
Emotion, socialization, concept, abstract, art, beauty, 5 senses, and we are able to not only deviate from our "program" we can write our own "code." Morals and ethics.
KMS
Peralin said:Ok, but does that mean that we have free will, or is it all pre-determined? Sure, we can decide on things. But what makes us choose what we do?
Memory is a good idea, but what if memory is just one of the many factors that determines our decision-making? Maybe there's a complicated system in our brain that determines our decision-making. Maybe the brain isjust a machine that processes information and truns it into a choice.
But if that's the case, are we all just robots?
Peralin said:Maybe emotion is just a process of the brain. Maybe the setup of the brain determines whether we feel happy or sad.
Art and beauty?? Mybe they are simply genetic. Maybe all we are is genes and brain. It would suck, but it might be that way.
Of course, there is another option. Maybe there is a part of out brain that is us. Maybe there is a part of our decision-making that involves something else besides the brain. I don't know, I haven't heard of any evidence of such a thing. But I guess it's possible.
Engimo said:What makes us choose what we do is entirely governed by physical processes - but the caveat is that the subatomic world is non-deterministic. There is an inherent quantum randomness that applies to all interactions on the subatomic level.
The Real McCoy said:Is it truly random or do we just not understand the underlying principle of quantum mechanics yet? Me thinks it's the latter.
Engimo said:An unfounded statement. From what we can gather, the quantum mechanical properties of subatomic particles are truly random. There is absolutely no way whatsoever to determine where an electron was before you measured its position, and no way to tell where it's going to be at any time in the future - it really is random.
The Real McCoy said:It wasn't an unfounded statement. You said it right there, from what we can gather.
Engimo said:Yes, but that doesn't mean that there's any basis for you to say "Well, that might not be the case." Until you've got some way of violating the Uncertainty Principle or some evidence that points towards it not holding, it is unfounded.
Peralin said:Ok, but does that mean that we have free will, or is it all pre-determined? Sure, we can decide on things. But what makes us choose what we do?
Memory is a good idea, but what if memory is just one of the many factors that determines our decision-making? Maybe there's a complicated system in our brain that determines our decision-making. Maybe the brain isjust a machine that processes information and truns it into a choice.
But if that's the case, are we all just robots?
cnredd said:The difference is that humans can make present and future choices based on the past...the difference, in simple terms, is memory...
If a human puts his/her hand on a hot stove, his memory will remind him that it wouldn't be nice if they did it again...
A robot, based on his program, would either never do it, or continue to do it...until the program gets changed...
There's no memory involved for the robot to make that change on his own...
Kandahar said:That's not entirely true. In fact, memory is the primary way computers learn from their mistakes in games such as chess.
Engimo said:Actually, most chess playing computers don't use any evolutionary algorithms at all. They simply brute force all of the permutations of future movements and select the one that leads to the most advantageous solution - there's no actual learning going on. The ability of a computer to play chess well is based mostly on its massive computational power.
Kandahar said:So far, none of the differences that people have mentioned are FUNDAMENTAL differences; they're just examples of where current computer technology is inferior to human thought. There's no fundamental reason that computers can't socialize, be creative, or learn from their mistakes...just like humans.
In short, there are no fundamental differences between humans and sufficiently complex robots. Too often, people ask the wrong questions about artificial intelligence. Instead of wondering whether robots could actually think, or if they could "only" run complex programs, we should question whether any such distinction actually exists. The human brain "only" runs a complex program too.
"The first stable conclusion I reached … was that the only thing brains could do was to approximate the responsivity to meanings that we presuppose in our everyday mentalistic discourse. When mechanical push comes to shove, a brain was always going to do what it was caused to do by current, local, mechanical circumstances, whatever it ought to do, whatever a God's-eye view might reveal about the actual meaning of its current states. But over the long haul, brains could be designed - by evolutionary processes - to do the right thing (from the point of view of meaning) with high reliability. … rains are syntactic engines that can mimic the competence of semantic engines. … The appreciation of meanings - their discrimination and delectation - is central to our vision of consciousness, but this conviction that I, on the inside, deal directly with meanings turns out to be something rather like a benign "user-illusion".
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