"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA"

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

This incisive presentation to a collection of educators (at a colloquium), though long, summarizes well the key differences between tertiary-educations in the US and in Europe. (It can be found in full here.)

What is important to note is that - despite WW2 - Europe has played catch-up to the US and is graduating post-secondary degree students at about the same rate (though a bit lower). And the reason is key: A tertiary education in Europe does not cost an arm-and-a-leg. (My exaggeration.)

In France, I've sent my kids to university for a tuition fee of less than $800 - plus, of course, room 'n board. Which is typical of the rest of Europe to a small but varying degree of cost.

"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA" (dated 2010)
Andrzej J. Gapinski, Ph.D.
Penn State University-Fayette, Pennsylvania, USA

An excerpt of the presentation -

USA UNIVERSITY SYSTEM
America developed its higher learning system borrowing successfully from the European model. Although the developments of higher education systems in America and Europe were intertwined from the time America appeared on a map, the historical traditions were quite different. In Europe, with the creation of universities in medieval times, the education system was set up to essentially educate society’s elites. The American system, on the other hand, but much later, introduced democratization of access to education on broader scale, especially with its 19th Century Land Grant College Act (Land Grant College Act of 1862, Encyclopedia Britannica).

Currently, more than sixty percent (60%) of American high school graduates enter post-secondary education, much higher than in Europe (“Secrets of success,” The Economist, 2005; "Who pays…”, The Economist, 2004). Non-traditional students do much better than their counterparts in Europe: the majority of undergraduates are female, one third come from racial minorities, about twenty percent (20 %) come from families with income below the poverty level. These facts dispel arguments used by Europe, that the tuition fees would effectively allow only the society well off families to educate their offspring.

This is not to say that education to most come without a financial hardship. Half of student population does work half-time and eighty percent (80%) of students work to help support themselves (“Secrets of success,” The Economist, 2005). The money factor to great extent encourages students to be more responsible for their own academic success: The graduation rate is much higher than thirty seven percent (37%) of age cohort of Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) member countries, and with only of twenty one (21%) in Germany (“On shaky…”, The Economist, 2009).

The diversification of universities funding with tuition fees, state appropriation whenever applicable, grants, private benefactors propel American universities to the highest expenditure per student with about $22,000 versus $10,000 for OECD countries for year 2001 (“Secrets of success,” The Economist, 2005). Furthermore, America spends twice as much of its GDP on higher education than Europe does (Heyman, 1999). The higher education system is well diversified with community colleges at the bottom of the pyramid, colleges and state universities, and research universities at the top. There is a plethora of public and private institutions for students to choose from. A student can start at community college and to graduate from research-oriented university. In Europe such transferability and mobility would be almost impossible to achieve.

American Universities compete for almost everything: talented professors, administrators, students, and of course grant monies. Thus, a competition in almost all facets of academic life of the university and funding sets American universities apart from the rest of the world.

Cisero · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
This incisive presentation to a collection of educators (at a colloquium), though long, summarizes well the key differences between tertiary-educations in the US and in Europe. (It can be found in full here.)

What is important to note is that - despite WW2 - Europe has played catch-up to the US and is graduating post-secondary degree students at about the same rate (though a bit lower). And the reason is key: A tertiary education in Europe does not cost an arm-and-a-leg. (My exaggeration.)

In France, I've sent my kids to university for a tuition fee of less than $800 - plus, of course, room 'n board. Which is typical of the rest of Europe to a small but varying degree of cost.

"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA" (dated 2010)
Andrzej J. Gapinski, Ph.D.
Penn State University-Fayette, Pennsylvania, USA

An excerpt of the presentation -

American public education sucks. I have many Swiss friends who spent a year in the public system in the US (exchange program). One of my friends topped her class... her English class. When I was 14-15 I remember seeing my American Cousin's math homework. It was clearly an inferior level to what we were learning.

However, American private education is hands down the best worldwide. It's also ****ing expensive. I once wanted to apply to M.I.T. Looked at the prices, was immediately discouraged. Anyway it would be stupid, in Switzerland we have EPFL and ETH (two of the best science universities in the world, not better than M.I.T though). I'll end up applying to TUM (Technical Universität Munich) so I can better my German. EPFL, ETH & TUM are all public universities. They're also really cheap & highy ranked.

World University Rankings

RabidAlpaca · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
American public education sucks. I have many Swiss friends who spent a year in the public system in the US (exchange program). One of my friends topped her class... her English class. When I was 14-15 I remember seeing my American Cousin's math homework. It was clearly an inferior level to what we were learning.

However, American private education is hands down the best worldwide. It's also ****ing expensive. I once wanted to apply to M.I.T. Looked at the prices, was immediately discouraged. Anyway it would be stupid, in Switzerland we have EPFL and ETH (two of the best science universities in the world, not better than M.I.T though). I'll end up applying to TUM (Technical Universität Munich) so I can better my German. EPFL, ETH & TUM are all public universities. They're also really cheap & highy ranked.

World University Rankings

As a graduate of a German engineering college (FAU Erlangen-Nürnberg) I can highly recommend it. You'll have a great time and learn a lot at TUM. Tuition is also like 100 euro per semester.

PeteEU · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
American public education sucks. I have many Swiss friends who spent a year in the public system in the US (exchange program). One of my friends topped her class... her English class. When I was 14-15 I remember seeing my American Cousin's math homework. It was clearly an inferior level to what we were learning.

However, American private education is hands down the best worldwide. It's also ****ing expensive. I once wanted to apply to M.I.T. Looked at the prices, was immediately discouraged. Anyway it would be stupid, in Switzerland we have EPFL and ETH (two of the best science universities in the world, not better than M.I.T though). I'll end up applying to TUM (Technical Universität Munich) so I can better my German. EPFL, ETH & TUM are all public universities. They're also really cheap & highy ranked.

World University Rankings

No American private education is not the best in the world.. it is the most expensive period. The "rankings" are based on the public perception of universities and it is highly subjective. Because Harvard and Princeton have built up a world wide reputation (usually via movies and tv shows btw), of excellence and "the best", then the people perceive that graduates from these institutions are the best of the best. Reality is something else. I compare it like buying a pair of Ray Bans ... one is the Ferrari version, other is not. The Ferrari version costs 10 times the normal version, but they are the same sun glasses. Or Apple products... Apple takes a premium on the name and myth alone.. in reality, the components are often average at best and do not deserve the high price.

Point is, the rankings are a popularity contest pure and simple and does not reflect much else. After all Bush Jr went to Harvard and Yale.. you think he got in on merit?

joG · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
This incisive presentation to a collection of educators (at a colloquium), though long, summarizes well the key differences between tertiary-educations in the US and in Europe. (It can be found in full here.)

What is important to note is that - despite WW2 - Europe has played catch-up to the US and is graduating post-secondary degree students at about the same rate (though a bit lower). And the reason is key: A tertiary education in Europe does not cost an arm-and-a-leg. (My exaggeration.)

In France, I've sent my kids to university for a tuition fee of less than $800 - plus, of course, room 'n board. Which is typical of the rest of Europe to a small but varying degree of cost.

"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA" (dated 2010)
Andrzej J. Gapinski, Ph.D.
Penn State University-Fayette, Pennsylvania, USA

An excerpt of the presentation -

Thanks for the article. Quite nicely written.

One question to your text, though. Why should my erstwhile PA or the sweaty taxi drivers in the Paris streets pay for my or your kids' education? That is free riding in its purest form.

joG · Jul 18, 2017

PeteEU said:
No American private education is not the best in the world.. it is the most expensive period. The "rankings" are based on the public perception of universities and it is highly subjective. Because Harvard and Princeton have built up a world wide reputation (usually via movies and tv shows btw), of excellence and "the best", then the people perceive that graduates from these institutions are the best of the best. Reality is something else. I compare it like buying a pair of Ray Bans ... one is the Ferrari version, other is not. The Ferrari version costs 10 times the normal version, but they are the same sun glasses. Or Apple products... Apple takes a premium on the name and myth alone.. in reality, the components are often average at best and do not deserve the high price.

Point is, the rankings are a popularity contest pure and simple and does not reflect much else. After all Bush Jr went to Harvard and Yale.. you think he got in on merit?

I have had American public, MIT and Ivy League graduates as well as some from Munich, Dresden, EP, ÉNS, Cambridge etc work for me or as colleagues. Though I did see excellent technical capabilities from some German and especially French École Supérieure graduates rivaling Ivy League if not MIT the social competence and work ethics of a Harvard MBS or lawyer were almost never reached.

Cisero · Jul 18, 2017

PeteEU said:
No American private education is not the best in the world.. it is the most expensive period. The "rankings" are based on the public perception of universities and it is highly subjective. Because Harvard and Princeton have built up a world wide reputation (usually via movies and tv shows btw), of excellence and "the best", then the people perceive that graduates from these institutions are the best of the best. Reality is something else. I compare it like buying a pair of Ray Bans ... one is the Ferrari version, other is not. The Ferrari version costs 10 times the normal version, but they are the same sun glasses. Or Apple products... Apple takes a premium on the name and myth alone.. in reality, the components are often average at best and do not deserve the high price.

Point is, the rankings are a popularity contest pure and simple and does not reflect much else. After all Bush Jr went to Harvard and Yale.. you think he got in on merit?

Depends what you mean by "best". For me, the best university is the one that will open the most doors for your career. If you have "Harvard" or "Oxford" written anywhere on your CV, your likelihood of finding a job are increased tenfold. The name carries a lot of weight.

joG · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
American public education sucks. I have many Swiss friends who spent a year in the public system in the US (exchange program). One of my friends topped her class... her English class. When I was 14-15 I remember seeing my American Cousin's math homework. It was clearly an inferior level to what we were learning.

However, American private education is hands down the best worldwide. It's also ****ing expensive. I once wanted to apply to M.I.T. Looked at the prices, was immediately discouraged. Anyway it would be stupid, in Switzerland we have EPFL and ETH (two of the best science universities in the world, not better than M.I.T though). I'll end up applying to TUM (Technical Universität Munich) so I can better my German. EPFL, ETH & TUM are all public universities. They're also really cheap & highy ranked.

World University Rankings

I tend to agree from my experience with a largish but non representative sample. What I cannot judge at all is the quality of Asian and Indian schools. An Indian worked for me in London that had gone to a reputable Indian university. She was scarey good. Similarly I have not had enough exposure to Asian graduates, but have heard high praise from friends for some specialties.

PS: I did two years economics in Munich. We lived in the Reichebachstraße. It was fun and the professors were excellent. Lasting friendships with the faculty seemed more accessible in Heidelberg. Enjoy Munich.

joG · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Depends what you mean by "best". For me, the best university is the one that will open the most doors for your career. If you have "Harvard" or "Oxford" written anywhere on your CV, your likelihood of finding a job are increased tenfold. The name carries a lot of weight.

Again, I tend to agree. But the social competence and level of academic knowledge you acquire are important too. Again, it is hard to beat a Harvard lawyer or Kennedy school graduate.

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
American public education sucks.

That conclusion depends upon a comparative level.

The PISA study tells where a country is found in terms of secondary-school education. For results of its study worldwide, go here, then scroll down to page 7 that is a ranking of country scores.

The US is 36th in the ranking of 66 countries, perfectly mediocre. Those countries that ranked better (from very-much to very-little) are:
Shanghai-China
Singapore
Hong Kong-China
Chinese Taipei
Korea
Macao-China
Japan
Liechtenstein
Switzerland
Netherlands
Estonia
Finland
Canada
Poland
Belgium
Germany
Viet Nam
Austria
Australia
Ireland
Slovenia
Denmark
New Zealand
Czech Republic
France
United Kingdom
Iceland
Latvia
Luxembourg
Norway
Portugal
Italy
Spain
Russian Federation

The difference in level between, say, China-Shanghai at 613 (highest score) and the US at 481 is considerable.

I gather you're from Switzerland. Consider yourself lucky - one choses neither their country of birth nor secondary-schooling ...

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Depends what you mean by "best". For me, the best university is the one that will open the most doors for your career. If you have "Harvard" or "Oxford" written anywhere on your CV, your likelihood of finding a job are increased tenfold. The name carries a lot of weight.

Be careful. These are also the ones that will squeeze-you-dry before throwing you out the door to be replaced by another.

Look deeper into a company before swallowing-all-the-BS they tell you about how great they are ...

Cisero · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
That conclusion depends upon a comparative level.

The PISA study tells where a country is found in terms of secondary-school education. For results of its study worldwide, go here, then scroll down to page 7 that is a ranking of country scores.

The US is 36th in the ranking of 66 countries, perfectly mediocre. Those countries that ranked better (from very-much to very-little) are:
Shanghai-China
Singapore
Hong Kong-China
Chinese Taipei
Korea
Macao-China
Japan
Liechtenstein
Switzerland
Netherlands
Estonia
Finland
Canada
Poland
Belgium
Germany
Viet Nam
Austria
Australia
Ireland
Slovenia
Denmark
New Zealand
Czech Republic
France
United Kingdom
Iceland
Latvia
Luxembourg
Norway
Portugal
Italy
Spain
Russian Federation

The difference in level between, say, China-Shanghai at 613 (highest score) and the US at 481 is considerable.

I gather you're from Switzerland. Consider yourself lucky - one choses neither their country of birth nor secondary-schooling ...

Compared to other "rich" countries, the US public education system is clearly lacking.
Yes indeed, I'm lucky to live in Switzerland. Great accessible opportunities here.

PeteEU · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Depends what you mean by "best". For me, the best university is the one that will open the most doors for your career. If you have "Harvard" or "Oxford" written anywhere on your CV, your likelihood of finding a job are increased tenfold. The name carries a lot of weight.

Yes exactly... it is a popularity contest and has nothing to do with "the best". The best should be the one giving the best education no? Since most major universities give a similar education for the country in question, then there is no real "best"... just which is popular. It is basically elitism.

Cisero · Jul 18, 2017

PeteEU said:
Yes exactly... it is a popularity contest and has nothing to do with "the best". The best should be the one giving the best education no? Since most major universities give a similar education for the country in question, then there is no real "best"... just which is popular. It is basically elitism.

Indeed, it all depends on the metric you use. It's very hard to measure the "best" education. One would have to give a standardized test cross-country, even then the results would only reflect the level of each university for specific questions. A lot of these fields are really vast... for instance, the Stanford Software Engineering cursus could be more cloud computing focused while the Oxford one may be more phone OS focused. Really hard to measure.

It sucks to say, but finding a job isn't about being smart. It's about appearing smarter than other students. Having a Harvard Degree sure helps.

PeteEU · Jul 18, 2017

joG said:
I have had American public, MIT and Ivy League graduates as well as some from Munich, Dresden, EP, ÉNS, Cambridge etc work for me or as colleagues. Though I did see excellent technical capabilities from some German and especially French École Supérieure graduates rivaling Ivy League if not MIT the social competence and work ethics of a Harvard MBS or lawyer were almost never reached.

It all depends on the person not the school they went too. I have been around the world and my father was a manager of major projects in the Middle East, and he had some quite interesting views on the subject. For one, he called American workers drones, unable to think for themselves and "yes men". He called British graduates lazy and tried to avoid hiring them unless he was sure of their reputation.

Point is, you can have idiots like Bush Jr with Harvard and Yale papers on him, who in fact dont know ****, and then you can have brilliant people coming from small universities or countries or people like Bill Gates who never finished school. Anyone hiring because of what school the candidate went to.. they should be fired. Sadly the elitism is ripe in the business world and in some political climates.. even the US but especially the UK (on the right side of politics). But the bottom line, a person learning business at Copenhagen Business School actually more then often learns from the same material as the guy from Wharton Business School or Harvard. There aint that much difference other than the name of the institution on their degree...

PeteEU · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Having a Harvard Degree sure helps.

Yes it does, but it should not.

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

joG said:
Thanks for the article. Quite nicely written.

One question to your text, though. Why should my erstwhile PA or the sweaty taxi drivers in the Paris streets pay for my or your kids' education? That is free riding in its purest form.

Free-riding is contextual. It depends upon how you define it.

I think spending 54% of National Discretionary Budget on the DoD is "free-riding" for a multitude of BigBusiness sub-contractors of the infamous "MIC"*. Which is why I'd rather see at least half the budget spent on Free Tertiary Education that will allow our children a better future than the 50% or so who cannot afford it.

Just what would you do (as PotUS) with that 50% who will never ever obtain a tertiary-level degree? Send them to Syria to die in a war that is not of our making? And if they're lucky enough to survive, maybe they'll get an education free? But if not, they can spend the rest of their lives getting around in a wheel-chair?

What pathetic, brutal and inconsiderate nonsense. Reminds me of the alternative that the Romans used to give their slaves in order to recruit them into their legions.

I would like to think we earthlings are nowadays more advanced culturally with more refined instincts. But, not all countries, I fear ...

*MIC = Military Industrial Complex

ludin · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
That conclusion depends upon a comparative level.

The PISA study tells where a country is found in terms of secondary-school education. For results of its study worldwide, go here, then scroll down to page 7 that is a ranking of country scores.

The US is 36th in the ranking of 66 countries, perfectly mediocre. Those countries that ranked better (from very-much to very-little) are:
Shanghai-China
Singapore
Hong Kong-China
Chinese Taipei
Korea
Macao-China
Japan
Liechtenstein
Switzerland
Netherlands
Estonia
Finland
Canada
Poland
Belgium
Germany
Viet Nam
Austria
Australia
Ireland
Slovenia
Denmark
New Zealand
Czech Republic
France
United Kingdom
Iceland
Latvia
Luxembourg
Norway
Portugal
Italy
Spain
Russian Federation

The difference in level between, say, China-Shanghai at 613 (highest score) and the US at 481 is considerable.

I gather you're from Switzerland. Consider yourself lucky - one choses neither their country of birth nor secondary-schooling ...

when you posts lists like this you seriously have no idea what you are looking at.
all of the schools in china are gated. everyone gets about a 6th grade education and then they start weeding people out.
at 6th grade you take a test if you don't score high enough you are done with school.
at 9th grade the same thing. if you don't make the score your education is done.
same thing at 12 th grade. you pick which college you want and if you don't make the score then you are done.

college you are not allowed to fail a class they will kick you out immediately.

same goes with most of Europe. only the top 10-20% of students get free education.
everyone else too bad.

ludin · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Compared to other "rich" countries, the US public education system is clearly lacking.
Yes indeed, I'm lucky to live in Switzerland. Great accessible opportunities here.

we are lacking but not for the reasons you think.
we are lacking because we have to dumb the system down so everyone passes.

the schools are run by the unions and our liberal party.
the standards that are expected by students and teachers is low but when you try
and make them accountable all hell breaks loose.

the other issue is that there is more than enough funding for the schools however school
admins misuse the funds on all their pet projects and little of it goes to the actual schools.

the school districts administration is about as bloated as it can get.

joG · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
Free-riding is contextual. It depends upon how you define it.

I think spending 54% of National Discretionary Budget on the DoD is "free-riding" for a multitude of BigBusiness sub-contractors of the infamous "MIC"*. Which is why I'd rather see at least half the budget spent on Free Tertiary Education that will allow our children a better future than the 50% or so who cannot afford it.

Just what would you do (as PotUS) with that 50% who will never ever obtain a tertiary-level degree? Send them to Syria to die in a war that is not of our making? And if they're lucky enough to survive, maybe they'll get an education free? But if not, they can spend the rest of their lives getting around in a wheel-chair?

What pathetic, brutal and inconsiderate nonsense. Reminds me of the alternative that the Romans used to give their slaves in order to recruit them into their legions.

I would like to think we earthlings are nowadays more advanced culturally with more refined instincts. But, not all countries, I fear ...

*MIC = Military Industrial Complex

You must realize how populistly false that is to justify your free riding the lower class french taxpayers by making them pay for your kids' educatiin.

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

joG said:
You must realize how populistly false that is to justify your free riding the lower class french taxpayers by making them pay for your kids' educatiin.

Free-riding is a rather stupid way of saying that people do not deserve to share fairly in the generation of value that their labor is necessary to produce. It is the sort of one-liner nonsense that predominates the language of the Rabidly Right.

Such people (and indeed there are many) are intensely selfish, because they see the world around them with squinty-eyes lacking peripheral vision ...

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

ludin said:
... same goes with most of Europe. only the top 10-20% of students get free education.
everyone else too bad.

Yeah right, and I'm the ignoramus on this forum!

Moving right along ...

Lafayette · Jul 18, 2017

Cisero said:
Compared to other "rich" countries, the US public education system is clearly lacking.
Yes indeed, I'm lucky to live in Switzerland. Great accessible opportunities here.

Yes, and moreso because of a key uniqueness. You are indeed a multilingual people, perhaps the most multilingual of any European country, which gives the Swiss an important latitude in terms of doing business.

(I've lived in Geneva ...)

ludin · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
Yeah right, and I'm the ignoramus on this forum!

Moving right along ...

as usual you offer nothing but ad hominems when you can't defend your argument.

https://www.thoughtco.com/gaokao-entrance-exams-688039

'Free' college in Europe isn't really free - Business Insider Nordic
Germany only has a 62% enrollment rate if it is free to everyone then it should be 100% all the time.
ol yea they must gate the entrance.

they only allow so many students in at one time. if you don't make it too bad for you.
you either have to wait or do something else until you an get a chance to get in.

joG · Jul 18, 2017

Lafayette said:
Free-riding is a rather stupid way of saying that people do not deserve to share fairly in the generation of value that their labor is necessary to produce. It is the sort of one-liner nonsense that predominates the language of the Rabidly Right.

Such people (and indeed there are many) are intensely selfish, because they see the world around them with squinty-eyes lacking peripheral vision ...

Maybe you don't make so much, but making the childless poor pay for your kids' university is pretty unfair, if you aren't poor poor yourself. Even if you are poor, the kids' income will be higher and they could repay a loan. If they don't want the loan, they could work their way through school. What you are doing can certainly be called free riding, don't you think? There are others that would call it selfishly asocial maybe, but I would only term it as taking advantage of a free lunch instead of paying your share of the bill. and letting the poor pay.

"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA"

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