High school drop-outs.

[middleagedgamer]

Every school day, seven thousand teenagers will drop out of high school, according to this citation right here:

http://www.all4ed.org/files/archive/publications/HighCost.pdf

So, in the past week, 35,000 high school dropouts were created. If the school year has 185 days, that means that, on average, there are 1,295,000 teenagers who drop-out.

High school drop-outs make less money; therefore, they contribute less to the economy by being able to consume and invest less. Therefore, it is not just their loss for dropping out; it is the entire country's loss, because of the effects that it has on the GDP.

For example, the difference in the average salary of a high school graduate and a high school dropout is approximately $9,634 a year, according to that source I cited. This means that, every year, high school dropouts cost the country's GDP about $12,476,030,000. That is twelve billion, four hundred seventy six million, thirty thousand dollars of GDP a year. We're not even talking million, anymore; we're talking billion.

Not only that, but that's just for one generation of high school dropouts. This amount will increase with every year. This year, high school dropouts will cost us nearly twelve and a half billion dollars in GDP. Next year, high school dropouts will cost us nearly twenty-five billion dollars in GDP!

By the time you reach the age of retirement, at 65, you have been an adult for 47 years. This means, over the course of your lifetime, you have cost the country over $450,000 in GDP. Over the course of all the lifetimes, a single generation of high school dropouts cost the country over $586 billion, and that's just for ONE generation!

Even right now, 15 million Americans are estimated to possess a GED, according to this.

TestKing.com GED

That means that, as of right now, all high school dropouts, past and present, are costing our GDP approximately $144.51 billion per year, and that is not even counting the people who dropped out without getting a GED.

Are you starting to see the effects that this has on our economy? Clearly, if you drop out of school, you are not just hurting yourself; you are hurting the entire country. Therefore, this HAS to stop.

I believe, anyone who neither possesses a high school diploma, nor is currently enrolled in high school, should not be entitled to any welfare or social security benefits. People who already had a GED prior to the passing of this law would not be affected, as the Constitution clearly prohibits ex post facto laws. Those also affected will also not be entitled to a tax refund, which means all that money that was originally withheld from your paycheck will stay withheld. They will also be barred from serving in the military, which GEDs currently allow.

States may also take measures to discourage high school drop-outs, such as abolishing GED programs altogether (thereby preventing them from going to college).

These provisions are inexpensive to implement (they might even be deficit-reducing, since they are no longer entitled to welfare and social security benefits, the single biggest government expenditure in existence today), and yet, will still encourage kids to stay in school.

Thoughts?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I really don't think a punishment approach would help with the problem. If somebody is not mature enough to understand the utility of education, I'm not sure they would respond rationally to what you proposed. Some would be more likely to engage in organized crime. The worst part of your post was about abolishing GEDs. That would be counterproductive because somebody seeking their GED in order to go to college would be somebody who has gotten over the immaturity of their younger years and is taking responsibility for their life. Many of us were dumb when we were young and everybody deserves a second chance.

 

[middleagedgamer]

I really don't think a punishment approach would help with the problem. If somebody is not mature enough to understand the utility of education, I'm not sure they would respond rationally to what you proposed.

I guess that explains why minors can be tried as an adult for serious crimes.

When you cost the entire nation over $450,000 over the course of your lifetime, that's pretty serious.

Some would be more likely to engage in organized crime.

About 50% of the nation's police resources is dedicated to organized crime. They probably won't last long.

The worst part of your post was about abolishing GEDs. That would be counterproductive because somebody seeking their GED in order to go to college would be somebody who has gotten over the immaturity of their younger years and is taking responsibility for their life. Many of us were dumb when we were young and everybody deserves a second chance.

GED are a bastardization of high school diplomas. To call them "equivalent" is a slap in the face to those of us who have high school diplomas.

I am not suggesting that they should have to stay dropped out, but make them re-enroll in high school and get the real deal.

Or, at the very least, make the GED program require the same academic achievement as a high school diploma, rather than the "bare essentials" that the GED program currently has.

 

[1069]

Every school day, seven thousand teenagers will drop out of high school, according to this citation right here:

http://www.all4ed.org/files/archive/publications/HighCost.pdf

So, in the past week, 35,000 high school dropouts were created. If the school year has 185 days, that means that, on average, there are 1,295,000 teenagers who drop-out.

High school drop-outs make less money; therefore, they contribute less to the economy by being able to consume and invest less. Therefore, it is not just their loss for dropping out; it is the entire country's loss, because of the effects that it has on the GDP.

For example, the difference in the average salary of a high school graduate and a high school dropout is approximately $9,634 a year, according to that source I cited. This means that, every year, high school dropouts cost the country's GDP about $12,476,030,000. That is twelve billion, four hundred seventy six million, thirty thousand dollars of GDP a year. We're not even talking million, anymore; we're talking billion.

Not only that, but that's just for one generation of high school dropouts. This amount will increase with every year. This year, high school dropouts will cost us nearly twelve and a half billion dollars in GDP. Next year, high school dropouts will cost us nearly twenty-five billion dollars in GDP!

By the time you reach the age of retirement, at 65, you have been an adult for 47 years. This means, over the course of your lifetime, you have cost the country over $450,000 in GDP. Over the course of all the lifetimes, a single generation of high school dropouts cost the country over $586 billion, and that's just for ONE generation!

Even right now, 15 million Americans are estimated to possess a GED, according to this.

TestKing.com GED

That means that, as of right now, all high school dropouts, past and present, are costing our GDP approximately $144.51 billion per year, and that is not even counting the people who dropped out without getting a GED.

Are you starting to see the effects that this has on our economy? Clearly, if you drop out of school, you are not just hurting yourself; you are hurting the entire country. Therefore, this HAS to stop.

I believe, anyone who neither possesses a high school diploma, nor is currently enrolled in high school, should not be entitled to any welfare or social security benefits. People who already had a GED prior to the passing of this law would not be affected, as the Constitution clearly prohibits ex post facto laws. Those also affected will also not be entitled to a tax refund, which means all that money that was originally withheld from your paycheck will stay withheld. They will also be barred from serving in the military, which GEDs currently allow.

States may also take measures to discourage high school drop-outs, such as abolishing GED programs altogether (thereby preventing them from going to college).

These provisions are inexpensive to implement (they might even be deficit-reducing, since they are no longer entitled to welfare and social security benefits, the single biggest government expenditure in existence today), and yet, will still encourage kids to stay in school.

Thoughts?

My dad dropped out of high school. Both my kids dropped out of high school.
I never even got to high school, myself; I dropped out before that.
All of us have GEDs.
I dislike the implications of this thread.
It's not going to "encourage people" to do $#!*,
It's just going to further marginalize an already-marginalized and disenfranchised population.

 

[middleagedgamer]

My dad dropped out of high school. Both my kids dropped out of high school.
I never even got to high school, myself; I dropped out before that.
All of us have GEDs.
I dislike the implications of this thread.

You dislike taking responsibility for your decision to drop out of high school?

Also, what part of "those who already have dropped out will not be affected because the Constitution clearly prohibits ex post facto laws" don't you understand?

It's not going to "encourage people" to do $#!*,

Yeah, just like throwing people in jail will not encourage people to not kill?

It's just going to further marginalize an already-marginalized and disenfranchised population.

If they drop out of high school, they deserve to be marginalized.

 

[1069]

You dislike taking responsibility for your decision to drop out of high school?

Also, what part of "those who already have dropped out will not be affected because the Constitution clearly prohibits ex post facto laws" don't you understand?


Yeah, just like throwing people in jail will not encourage people to not kill?


If they drop out of high school, they deserve to be marginalized.

That's a bunch of manure, much like everything else you post.
There's not even anything to debate, really.
It's just dumb. It's your typical modus operandi: make categorical inflammatory statements, then cry persecution when everybody's like "WTF? That's pretty lame."
I think you deserve to be marginalized.

 

[reefedjib]

Do most high school drop outs come from families with a history of serial drop outs?

 

[middleagedgamer]

Do most high school drop outs come from families with a history of serial drop outs?

I have yet to see any evidence, either way.

But, why does that even matter?

 

[1069]

Do most high school drop outs come from families with a history of serial drop outs?

Yes, in fact, they do. Statistically, the children of dropouts are far more likely to drop out themselves.
Many come from generational poverty, although my particular family does not.
Society is not served by further marginalizing these people.
For many of them, a GED is a huge achievement. They actually take classes for it, study for it.
When they go to so much trouble to attain it, chances are they will actually do something with it, such as go on to community college or trade school.

 

[reefedjib]

I have yet to see any evidence, either way.

But, why does that even matter?

It seems to me it is the difference between an isolated problem and one with socio-economic factors. Perhaps the approach to preventing each case would be different. Families with high incidents of drop outs could be identified and addressed. Just a thought.

 

[reefedjib]

Yes, in fact, they do. Statistically, the children of dropouts are far more likely to drop out themselves.
Many come from generational poverty, although my particular family does not.
Society is not served by further marginalizing these people.
For many of them, a GED is a huge achievement. They actually take classes for it, study for it.
When they go to so much trouble to attain it, chances are they will actually do something with it, such as go on to community college or trade school.

I managed to graduate high school, although I went to 3 different schools and failed senior english, which I had to make up in summer school. My disconnect was after high school - I was not mature enough for college so I entered the Army. I went to college after the Army, when I realized I did not want to do labor or menial tasks for a living.

I think a GED is a solid accomplishment. What the **** do you learn in high school anyway? It is mainly supposed to be reading, logic, math, writing - all of which are tested by the GED I believe.

 

[1069]

That's another issue: eliminate the GED, and we won't have much of a military anymore. My younger son got his GED and entered the army at 17.

A lot of people do. For people who grow up in ghettos in generational poverty, it's a tried and true way out: get a GED, join the army. In these dangerous neighborhoods, staying in school isn't always a choice, if you hope to live to adulthood. There's a lot of pressure on boys in those neighborhoods to join gangs. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either choice can get them killed.
Getting a GED, joining the army, and getting the hell out is one of the few viable opportunities life affords them. Staying in school isn't really an option: by 18, statistics say they'll be in prison or dead if they stay.

 

[reefedjib]

That's another issue: eliminate the GED, and we won't have much of a military anymore. My younger son got his GED and entered the army at 17.

A lot of people do. For people who grow up in ghettos in generational poverty, it's a tried and true way out: get a GED, join the army. In these dangerous neighborhoods, staying in school isn't always a choice, if you hope to live to adulthood. There's a lot of pressure on boys in those neighborhoods to join gangs. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either choice can get them killed.
Getting a GED, joining the army, and getting the hell out is one of the few viable opportunities life affords them. Staying in school isn't really an option: by 18, statistics say they'll be in prison or dead if they stay.

I knew a lot of them when I was in. I also knew a lot of black guys who got a college degree, then entered the army to pay off their debts - guys from the projects - they were mainly medics, for some reason.

 

[UtahBill]

The GED is simply a test to determine how you compare to high school grads.
Except for literature, I scored in the 90th percentile. That means I scored better than most others who got their HS diploma. I was bored silly in my high school, and it was supposedlly one of the best academicallly.

As soon as a person turns 16, they should be allowed to take the GED to see if they already know enough to move on. Why keep the smart ones in class when they don't really need it? It allows the teachers to spend more time with those who need the extra hellp.

But I agree with making dropping out an unpopular thing to do.

 

[middleagedgamer]

For many of them, a GED is a huge achievement. They actually take classes for it, study for it.

It is still a bastardization to call it an equivalent to a high school diploma.

When they go to so much trouble to attain it, chances are they will actually do something with it, such as go on to community college or trade school.

They can also do that with a high school diploma.

To call it "equal" to a high school diploma is a slap in the face to those of us who actually have one.

Although, your family is at least three generations of high school drop-outs. I wouldn't expect you to understand how insulted I feel that you actually consider your academic achievement equal to mine.

 

[reefedjib]

It is still a bastardization to call it an equivalent to a high school diploma.


They can also do that with a high school diploma.

To call it "equal" to a high school diploma is a slap in the face to those of us who actually have one.

Although, your family is at least three generations of high school drop-outs. I wouldn't expect you to understand how insulted I feel that you actually consider your academic achievement equal to mine.

Wait. You are seriously calling High School an academic experience? Oh brother.

 

[middleagedgamer]

Wait. You are seriously calling High School an academic experience? Oh brother.

Obviously, it is.

You're so damned illiterate that you don't even know that "high school" is NOT supposed to be capitalized.

Stay in school.

 

[UtahBill]

It is still a bastardization to call it an equivalent to a high school diploma.


They can also do that with a high school diploma.

To call it "equal" to a high school diploma is a slap in the face to those of us who actually have one.

Although, your family is at least three generations of high school drop-outs. I wouldn't expect you to understand how insulted I feel that you actually consider your academic achievement equal to mine.

For a lot of schools, the GED is better than a HS diploma.
We moved away from one crappy school district because of the mentality of the school leadership, from principal to superintendent to school board members they just wanted to do the least they had to do, and at the least expense. Academics suffered but they had very nice sports facilities. You would never guess that the super had been a jock when he went to school...:2razz:
The local paper would publish the honor roll, and it seemed that the entire school body made the list. They also had the "HIGH HONOR ROLL" and that list was a lot smaller.

 

[reefedjib]

Obviously, it is.

You're so damned illiterate that you don't even know that "high school" is NOT supposed to be capitalized.

Stay in school.

LOL! I can see where the pinnacle of your achievements left you. Correcting capitalization on a forum. How lame.

 

[middleagedgamer]

For a lot of schools, the GED is better than a HS diploma.

For a lot of schools, it's not.

We moved away from one crappy school district because of the mentality of the school leadership, from principal to superintendent to school board members they just wanted to do the least they had to do, and at the least expense. Academics suffered but they had very nice sports facilities. You would never guess that the super had been a jock when he went to school...:2razz:

Is that my concern?

We're talking about the nation as a whole.

The local paper would publish the honor roll, and it seemed that the entire school body made the list. They also had the "HIGH HONOR ROLL" and that list was a lot smaller.

Who's talking about the newspapers? We're talking about graduating high school.

 

[middleagedgamer]

LOL! I can see where the pinnacle of your achievements left you. Correcting capitalization on a forum. How lame.

At least I'm literate.

 

[UtahBill]

Obviously, it is.

You're so damned illiterate that you don't even know that "high school" is NOT supposed to be capitalized.

Stay in school.

WOW, no caps on high school? The academic sky is falling and we worry about caps?

 

[middleagedgamer]

WOW, no caps on high school? The academic sky is falling and we worry about caps?

A good way to keep the academic sky from falling is to reduce the drop-out rate.

 

[reefedjib]

At least I'm literate.

That may be, as am I. That still doesn't excuse you from making lame ass corrections on an internet forum, in some attempt to distract from getting nailed as to your main point. Don't be a pedantic loser.

 

[middleagedgamer]

That may be, as am I. That still doesn't excuse you from making lame ass corrections on an internet forum, in some attempt to distract from getting nailed as to your main point. Don't be a pedantic loser.

Actually, the Internet is the ONLY medium where correction of one's spelling, grammar, punctuation, or capitalization is a taboo. In person, this sort of thing is expected of people. That's why Microsoft Word tells you about misspelled words with a big, red line that is about as easy to ignore as a booger hanging out of a nose.