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Hidden costs of the wars

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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6,800 American soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afganistan, along with an unknown number of Iraqis and Afgans.

The number of United States troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had passed 6,800 at the beginning of 2015.

They died in a host of ways. The causes of death include rocket-propelled grenade fire and the improvised explosive devices that have been responsible for roughly half of all deaths and injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their deaths were also the result of vehicle crashes, electrocutions, heatstroke, friendly fire, and suicides in theater.
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But, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Below the water line:

More died by their own hands than were killed by the enemy.

In early 2013, the official website of the United States Department of Defense announced the startling statistic that the number of military suicides in 2012 had far exceeded the total of those killed in battle—an average of nearly one a day. A month later came an even more sobering statistic from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs: veteran suicide was running at 22 a day—about 8000 a year.
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and then, there are the ones who didn't die:

The number of disabled veterans has jumped by 25 percent since 2001 - to 2.9 million - and the cause really is no mystery.

"This is a cost of war," says Steve Smithson, a deputy director at the American Legion. "We're still producing veterans. We've been in a war in Iraq for five years now, and the war on terror since 9/11."
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That is the cost of war, and for what? We should vow to never again vote for anyone who is ready to send our military into battle unless there is no other alternative, and who is not ready to go into war to win it. How many more times must we learn the lesson of Vietnam and Iraq before we, the people, learn that simple lesson?
 
Dittohead not! said:
6,800 American soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afganistan, along with an unknown number of Iraqis and Afgans.


But, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Below the water line:

More died by their own hands than were killed by the enemy.



and then, there are the ones who didn't die:



That is the cost of war, and for what? We should vow to never again vote for anyone who is ready to send our military into battle unless there is no other alternative, and who is not ready to go into war to win it. How many more times must we learn the lesson of Vietnam and Iraq before we, the people, learn that simple lesson?
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Not enough people have learned since JEB! and Rubio still have supporters. Those two along with Fiorina have vowed to start WW3.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
6,800 American soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afganistan, along with an unknown number of Iraqis and Afgans.


But, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Below the water line:

More died by their own hands than were killed by the enemy.



and then, there are the ones who didn't die:



That is the cost of war, and for what? We should vow to never again vote for anyone who is ready to send our military into battle unless there is no other alternative, and who is not ready to go into war to win it. How many more times must we learn the lesson of Vietnam and Iraq before we, the people, learn that simple lesson?
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One must attack the "profit stream" of war to have any chance of achieving this. The MIC absorbs a huge portion of every annual budger for MILITARY OFFENSE, and I state that categorically because noone has attacked us. Even 9-11 was OBL, not an attack by Afghanistan and the Taliban agreed to turn OBL over for trial if the USA would present an evidentiary case. Eisenhower warned us and our politicians still did not pay any attention. Now the Banks are in collusion with the Military and it's even gotten worse. I vote Bernie because he had the intellect and backbone to be a conscientious objector. I believe that is what we need in USA management.
 
DaveFagan said:
One must attack the "profit stream" of war to have any chance of achieving this. The MIC absorbs a huge portion of every annual budger for MILITARY OFFENSE, and I state that categorically because noone has attacked us. Even 9-11 was OBL, not an attack by Afghanistan and the Taliban agreed to turn OBL over for trial if the USA would present an evidentiary case. Eisenhower warned us and our politicians still did not pay any attention. Now the Banks are in collusion with the Military and it's even gotten worse. I vote Bernie because he had the intellect and backbone to be a conscientious objector. I believe that is what we need in USA management.
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i agreed with you until the last few sentences
 
The war is always OK if it your party leading the charge. That is the attitude that must change. Otherwise when we were supposed to bring the troops home from Iraq they were just redeployed in Afghanistan. Our young men and women are still dying in the Middle East and will continue to die long after Obama and his promise to bring the troops home has served his second term. It does not matter which candidate we elect the one thing for sure is our young men and women will be dying on the battle field. The party that sent them there will be waving the flag while the other party yells how they would not send them there. It is hell to be so delusional.
 
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It's so sad. All the media ever does is play up the glamor and honour of military service. Sure it's tough (they say). But to serve your country is all that matters.

But forget about the mental/emotional toll that serving in combat areas costs. The military and media don't talk about those much.

When I signed up, I was SO incredibly naive.

Now? I realize what a complete crock most of it is. Dying to do the dirty work of politicians.

I would NEVER join the military unless they were involved (or soon to be involved) in a just war. And they were not in one of those since liberating Kuwait.

Serving your country in a just cause is the height of nobility. Serving your country blindly no matter what the cause is the height of ignorance.

You want to be a little, trained minion? Fine...not me.

Nobody tells me what is right and wrong...I decide. And if my country is in the wrong...they can go and piss up a rope if they want me to help them do wrong.
 
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This is so sad, especially the fact that more died by their own hands than by the enemy. We really need to do more about PTSD, understanding it, and treating it. Nobody should suffer and live with that much pain.

Dittohead not! said:
6,800 American soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afganistan, along with an unknown number of Iraqis and Afgans.


But, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Below the water line:

More died by their own hands than were killed by the enemy.



and then, there are the ones who didn't die:



That is the cost of war, and for what? We should vow to never again vote for anyone who is ready to send our military into battle unless there is no other alternative, and who is not ready to go into war to win it. How many more times must we learn the lesson of Vietnam and Iraq before we, the people, learn that simple lesson?
Click to expand...
 
Dittohead not! said:
6,800 American soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afganistan, along with an unknown number of Iraqis and Afgans.


But, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Below the water line:

More died by their own hands than were killed by the enemy.



and then, there are the ones who didn't die:



That is the cost of war, and for what? We should vow to never again vote for anyone who is ready to send our military into battle unless there is no other alternative, and who is not ready to go into war to win it. How many more times must we learn the lesson of Vietnam and Iraq before we, the people, learn that simple lesson?
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But other than that, the GOP have been fantastic for the nation!


Look! Immigrants! Be scared!
 
SheWolf said:
This is so sad, especially the fact that more died by their own hands than by the enemy. We really need to do more about PTSD, understanding it, and treating it. Nobody should suffer and live with that much pain.
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I don't think most of it is ptsd, I think it is family/money issues combined with societies inability to care. From my personal observations, the primary demograpic that takes their lives seem to be male, have deployed, and divorced. This comes down to many factors, but one big one is women around military bases.

A large number of the women marrying soldiers and taking their money and running were raised around a military base, and often even raised to know they can get away with it. Basically not the majority but still alot of the women raised around military bases were raised to be gold diggers. While alot of the soldiers I had met who married prior to the military had very few issues. This hurts alot when a soldier deploys, and his wife drains his bank accounts, maxes out his credit cards, runs away with his family and files divorce, leaving him with the bill. It is worse because in some areas if he is unavailable to show up in court like lets say deployed, by default the spouse gets uncontested demands, and can get literally everything the law will allow.


Now look even further into the suicide rate that is high, especially for men. One thing that easily prevents suicide is someone caring, and alot of people will do nothing. The suicide rate for women both in the service and civilian is much lower and that is because women tend to talk more about feelings, and pick up on distress between eachother. Men have a tendency to ignore distress, and often people taking their own lives are literally looking to see that people care about them. This has actualy been stressed numerous times in military training, how just simply asking whats wrong or helping someone is litteraly the difference between them moving on and taking their own life.
 
The solution is to eliminate these unconstitutional phoney wars.

There should be no such thing as "Police Actions." Wars should only occur if we are attacked by a foreign power (and I don't mean "terrorist organization"), or when Congress votes for a declaration of war. Then there should be a clear goal of victory, instead of these perpetual occupations and never-ending conflicts.

WWII lasted 5 years. Our involvement in the current conflicts of the Middle East started 15 years ago! It is STILL going on, and those in power want us to keep going on! Did we learn nothing from Vietnam?

We need to cut our losses and GTF OUT!
 
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Captain Adverse said:
The solution is to eliminate these unconstitutional phoney wars.

There should be no such thing as "Police Actions." Wars should only occur if we are attacked by a foreign power or Congress votes for a declaration of war. Then there should be a clear goal of victory, instead of these perpetual occupations and never-ending conflicts.

Did we learn nothing from Vietnam?
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We learned. The problem is government never learns. We pay for the governments mistakes so they have no need to learn. Government gets a good salary, great benefits, and platinum retirement no matter what kind of job they do.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
We learned. The problem is government never learns. We pay for the governments mistakes so they have no need to learn. Government gets a good salary, great benefits, and platinum retirement no matter what kind of job they do.
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I don't buy that.

The government is US. We allow it.

Don't blame the cogs in the machine for doing as instructed by the oligarchs we elect to Congress and the White House. That's like blaming the soldiers for doing what they were hired and trained to do in the good faith belief that "WE, The People" want them to do it.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't buy that.

The government is US. We allow it.

Don't blame the cogs in the machine for doing as instructed by the oligarchs we elect to Congress and the White House. That's like blaming the soldiers for doing what they were hired and trained to do in the good faith belief that "WE, The People" want them to do it.
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They are not held accountable. That is the problem. Most people blindly support party no matter what. That is how people such as Hitler or Stalin end up rulers. When the majority have their head stuck up their backside and will blindly follow party not much can be done.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't buy that.

The government is US. We allow it.

Don't blame the cogs in the machine for doing as instructed by the oligarchs we elect to Congress and the White House. That's like blaming the soldiers for doing what they were hired and trained to do in the good faith belief that "WE, The People" want them to do it.
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I agree that we have the government we deserve, but it is not true that the government is us.

After all, We The People existed before the government did. We The People created this government, and the government has a life of its own. It does its own thing, and that is seldom what is best for us.
 
lb_on_teh_cb said:
well are you sure it was "intellect and backbone"?
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To what would you attribute it, if you think otherwise?

How many times have you been hauled off to jail for objecting to war or anything else? Are YOU willing to go to jail over any sort of principle?
 
lb_on_teh_cb said:
i dont know but its convenient now. im guessing most of these other draft dodgers had conscientious objections as well
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Having served with several of them in Vietnam, I respect the conscientious objector. In those days, they made them medics, and I was in a medical unit.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The solution is to eliminate these unconstitutional phoney wars.

There should be no such thing as "Police Actions." Wars should only occur if we are attacked by a foreign power (and I don't mean "terrorist organization"), or when Congress votes for a declaration of war. Then there should be a clear goal of victory, instead of these perpetual occupations and never-ending conflicts.

WWII lasted 5 years. Our involvement in the current conflicts of the Middle East started 15 years ago! It is STILL going on, and those in power want us to keep going on! Did we learn nothing from Vietnam?

We need to cut our losses and GTF OUT!
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It started way before 15 years ago.
 
lb_on_teh_cb said:
well thats a good man.

What did Bernie do?
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I don't think he served, but I really don't know for sure.

I did catch a piece about him, with a picture, of him being hauled off to jail for protesting against discriminatory housing back in the 60s.

Most folks are not willing to go to jail over principle. Only a principled individual, man or woman. At the moment I cannot recall another politician who has gone to jail over principle.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I don't think he served, but I really don't know for sure.

I did catch a piece about him, with a picture, of him being hauled off to jail for protesting against discriminatory housing back in the 60s.

Most folks are not willing to go to jail over principle. Only a principled individual, man or woman. At the moment I cannot recall another politician who has gone to jail over principle.
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true but jail is a lot nicer than going to Vietnam.
 
Sanders was not in the military. The story:

Bernie Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War, his campaign confirmed to ABC News.

"As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist," Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. "[He] isn't now."

Last week, the Des Moines Register ran a column from a Hillary Clinton supporter and Vietnam veteran, titled, "How can Sanders be commander in chief?"

"My question as a Vietnam veteran is: How on earth could a person claiming to be a conscientious objector become the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world?" questioned the column author Steve Wikert. According to a profile from the Vermont Senator's hometown newspaper, the Burlington Free Press, his conscientious objector status application was eventually rejected, but by then Sanders was too old to be drafted.
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I'm not sure how it can be said he isn't a pacifist now. Seems he's the only candidate who voted against attacking Iraq.
 
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