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Really? By what metric? Can you provide any evidence?"The United States spends significantly more on healthcare than comparable countries, and yet has worse health outcomes."
Such articles lose me when they start out with such a half truth. The first part about the US spending the most on healthcare is true, however the last part about worse outcomes is a flat out lie.
Shouldn't those conditions be addressed in the healthcare system?Any so-called bad outcome in the US compared to anywhere else is due to factors outside of the healthcare system, such as obesity, smoking, alcoholism, or a sedentary lifestyle.
Only for few who can afford it.Technically, the most capable healthcare system on the planet is in the USA.
Why don't you start by stating why "people and corporations" who do NOTHING to make anyone well make record profits.It's just the cost that needs to be addressed, and not by a government takeover of the healthcare system.
Interesting.Answer from here: Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker
Healthcare in the US is a "racket" run by private-enterprise companies for a profit and individuals for a damn fine salary. The center-point of which are the healthcare-professionals who also earn high salaries. Yes, the doctors and nurses who are key to the profession.
According to the Medscape Physician Compensation Report, in 2018, Primary-Care Physicians in the United States earned on average $237,000, while Specialists earned $341,000.
They don't deserve the money? Well, of course in the US they deserve a more-than-decent salary for this critically key-service. Afterall, unlike my kids here in France, they went to expensive postsecondary schools for their diplomas*! Which most must pay-off once they start earning a salary.
Is that excuse good-enough. NO WAY!
Healthcare is not like lawyering. It is a key-component of our lifestyle and without it you know damn-well what can happen! If you do not agree then do tell me what other service is more important and why. Because this particular healthcare-service is critical to our lifestyle.
PS: A French friend paid his daughter's annual fee for a medical-degree at a state-run school here in France and annually that cost around $750 per year (in Euros) - not including room&board! She is now a registered professional physician.
As far as the physician thing. this is spot on.A few things.
First off, the French university system is far from a standard bearer of quality. Aside from one or two institutions they wouldn't compete against our most mediocre universities.
Second off, a French physician works far less and is far less productive than their US peers when compared by wRVUs, the standard method. So work harder, get paid more, foreign concept to some.
Third, only an idiot would send their kid to be a physician in the US at this point. It's a terrible job that is in decline. In the 80's it was a good gig. 90's it was fine. In the 21st century it hit the fan. Longer hours, more stress, less pay. You are seeing huge declines in the quality of students in the US medical education system. The best and the brightest are now heading to finance and tech and have been for some time.
Fourth, there is also a reason why France's economy is such an abysmal failure. State controls and regulations are a great place to start. It is also worth noting that the median household income in France is about half that of the US.
This is true. Now.. in the US..the skinny people are often the wealthy ones.To eat more healthily is expensive. The American poor, left out of the dream, live in food deserts where only cheap fattening sugar laden food is locally available.
Yeah.. thats not quite true. Welfare money goes into the pockets of the wealthy. A lot of that welfare is directed right into those areas. Try using a SNAP card at the local vegetable stand.In some urban areas that is partially true, but that is also a function of local and national policy. Look at certain cities in the US that are literally allowing crime to go unchecked and wonder why all the businesses leave? Then look at SNAP allowing this crap to be bought with tax dollars? Moreover, you can choose to eat like garbage, not work out, and not manage conditions anywhere on any budget. Lots of poor people aren't obese.
Yeah.. thats not quite true. Welfare money goes into the pockets of the wealthy. A lot of that welfare is directed right into those areas. Try using a SNAP card at the local vegetable stand.
But it works well at Walmart buying a frozen pizza.
As long as you have time to prepare a meal... sure. They also sell steaks and seafood which is part of a healthy diet as well.. but that makes people mad.Walmart sells frozen chicken breasts for $2 a pound, they sell eggs, rice, produce, etc, everything you need to eat healthy if that's what you want. But most people in the US don't want to.
The burden of proof is on the morons that claim worse outcomesReally? By what metric? Can you provide any evidence?
How can the healthcare system cure some fat lazy beer guzzling, tobacco smoking sedentary couch potato? Bad habits sometimes lead to bad outcomes. That's on the individuals, not the healthcare system.Shouldn't those conditions be addressed in the healthcare system?
And every time the government takes more control of healthcare, the more expensive it gets.Only for few who can afford it.
Ask the morons that passed the so-called Affordable Healthcare Act. They are responsible for all of the increases in health insurance costs since 2013.Why don't you start by stating why "people and corporations" who do NOTHING to make anyone well make record profits.
So the morons who make assertions about better outcomes have nothing.The burden of proof is on the morons that claim worse outcomes
Well if they are conservative there is simply no fixing stupid.How can the healthcare system cure some fat lazy beer guzzling, tobacco smoking sedentary couch potato?
And a good healthcare system can help change those bad habits.Bad habits sometimes lead to bad outcomes.
You must be a christian.That's on the individuals, not the healthcare system.
I guess that is another moronic assertion you can not support.And every time the government takes more control of healthcare, the more expensive it gets.
Yea, a really unpopular thing eh?Ask the morons that passed the so-called Affordable Healthcare Act.
The reality is that if you take the same patient, without regard to cost, his or her chances of a good outcome are better under US healthcare then anywhere on the planet.So the morons who make assertions about better outcomes have nothing.
Since when is Michael Moore conservative?Well if they are conservative there is simply no fixing stupid.
How? Make smoking, drinking, and a sedentary lifestyle illegal?And a good healthcare system can help change those bad habits.
Are you bigoted against Christians?You must be a christian.
I have no idea what your age is, however I am old enough to remember when healthcare was affordable. I barely noticed the copayments or my share of the health insurance premiums deducted from my paychecks. Ultimately the HMOs blew that up and the so-called Affordable Healthcare Act made it ten times worseI guess that is another moronic assertion you can not support.
Yes, very unpopular.Yea, a really unpopular thing eh?
You seem, unsurprisingly, unable to understand that individual outcomes for a few does not make a better system.The reality is that if you take the same patient, without regard to cost, his or her chances of a good outcome are better under US healthcare then anywhere on the planet.
SInce about the same time as Trump.Since when is Michael Moore conservative?
It is called education and guidance, clearly not something you are a promoter of.How? Make smoking, drinking, and a sedentary lifestyle illegal?
Only against hypocrite morons who pretend to be.Are you bigoted against Christians?
I am about even with dirt and I too remember that. Then quest for profits came from people who never healed anyone and the wellbeing of society took a back seat.I have no idea what your age is, however I am old enough to remember when healthcare was affordable.
Yet everything point to the opposite.Yes, very unpopular.
I am about even with dirt and I too remember that. Then quest for profits came from people who never healed anyone and the wellbeing of society took a back seat.
You seem unsurprisingly unable get the point. We both agree that healthcare in the US is prohibitively expensive. My point is that without regard to expense, any given patient has a better chance of a good outcome with treatment in the US then anywhere else.You seem, unsurprisingly, unable to understand that individual outcomes for a few does not make a better system.
Yawn......SInce about the same time as Trump.
You are projecting. The reality is that I am all for promoting a healthy lifestyle, however it cannot be forced. There will still be an enormous number of sedentary beer guzzling chain smoking, vaping couch potatoes.It is called education and guidance, clearly not something you are a promoter of.
More projection.Only against hypocrite morons who pretend to be.
So you are an anti-capitalist and you hate profits being made from providing healthcare. You are thinking about healthcare emotionally rather then logically. I am all for healthcare providers making profits. it leads to more available healthcare in the long run. Example. I live near a city with a population around 190,000. If I needed an MRI test, there are five facilities within ten miles of my house where I can quickly get one. No waiting list. Even without an emergency, I could get one tomorrow. Under a not for profit healthcare system, I would be lucky if their were 5 MRI units in the entire state, as government bean counters would be making the purchasing decisions.I am about even with dirt and I too remember that. Then quest for profits came from people who never healed anyone and the wellbeing of society took a back seat.
Some dubious opinion polls, maybe. Personally, I don't know anyone who favors the ACA. And I certainly do not. It ran me out of the private healthcare system.Yet everything point to the opposite.
An irrelevant point. Good healthcare should benefit ALL members of society.You seem unsurprisingly unable get the point. We both agree that healthcare in the US is prohibitively expensive. My point is that without regard to expense, any given patient has a better chance of a good outcome with treatment in the US then anywhere else.
RealityYawn.....
But it can be achieved through guidance and education and should not be forced.You are projecting. The reality is that I am all for promoting a healthy lifestyle, however it cannot be forced.
Exceptions will always exist.There will still be an enormous number of sedentary beer guzzling chain smoking, vaping couch potatoes.
No, not at all. I am for profits, the more the better, but not at the expense of someone's well being.So you are an anti-capitalist and you hate profits being made from providing healthcare.
No, practically. A health workforce is more productive and thus can generate more profits.You are thinking about healthcare emotionally rather then logically.
Providers? Such as doctors and all the support personell?I am all for healthcare providers making profits.
As evidenced by so many hospital closures?it leads to more available healthcare in the long run.
That is a good thing? Why do you believe that that would change if insurance companies did not rape the public?Example. I live near a city with a population around 190,000. If I needed an MRI test, there are five facilities within ten miles of my house where I can quickly get one. No waiting list. Even without an emergency, I could get one tomorrow.
There is not evidence for any of that.Under a not for profit healthcare system, I would be lucky if their were 5 MRI units in the entire state, as government bean counters would be making the purchasing decisions.
Your experience or opinion does not change reality.Some dubious opinion polls, maybe. Personally, I don't know anyone who favors the ACA. And I certainly do not. It ran me out of the private healthcare system.
Yes.I presume you mean the US when you say "our"?
I agree. Changes must be made. However the ACA is not getting it done. It is an insanely stupid and harmful piece of legislation. Single Payer would be even worseAn irrelevant point. Good healthcare should benefit ALL members of society.
Yet there will still be a significant number of people with bad habits.But it can be achieved through guidance and education and should not be forced.
See above,Exceptions will always exist.
Healthcare is commerce like anything else. It's never free.No, not at all. I am for profits, the more the better, but not at the expense of someone's well being.
If you are referring to the Health Insurance providers, then you should be agreeing with me. They gladly went along with the ACA because it came with a captive customer base. And hey are making enormous profits. They no longer have to compete for business. That's why cost cost of health insurance exploded when the bill took effect.There is no need for anyone to make enormous profits when they do not contribute ANYTHING to healing or wellbeing.
????No, practically. A health workforce is more productive and thus can generate more profits.
And the insurance providers as well. Why would anyone sell insurance if they cannot make a profit?Providers? Such as doctors and all the support personell?
You can thank the ACA for that.As evidenced by so many hospital closures?
That is a good thing? Why do you believe that that would change if insurance companies did not rape the public?
Really? The UK with their single payer system has only 5.9 MRI units per million people. The US has 40.44 per million people.There is not evidence for any of that.
Perhaps some day, you will wake up to the fact that your democrat party major losses in the 2010 and 2014 midterms were primarily due to the unpopularity of the ACA.Your experience or opinion does not change reality.
Yeah this is made up nonsense
If you want to make broad claims and assert them as fact, the burden is on you to provide your evidence. It's not our job to spend a half hour, or even 5 minutes, looking for sources for your claims.People here don't even want to try and look things up. They pull the infantile moves of "prove it" then no matter what source, what quality of data they either continue to nonsensically argue or they just disappear.
What specific point do you disagree with and on what basis?
If you want to make broad claims and assert them as fact, the burden is on you to provide your evidence. It's not our job to spend a half hour, or even 5 minutes, looking for sources for your claims.
I agree.
Indeed.Changes must be made.
It is not, it is just a bit better than before.However the ACA is not getting it done.
Actually it IS the answer.Single Payer would be even worse
It has been made into it whereas it should not be. In an advanced and civilized society, the wellbeing of our fellow man should not be commerce.Healthcare is commerce like anything else.
Nothing is free, but it should neither be the financial ruin of people.It's never free.
No, I do not. They have no place or purpose in this.If you are referring to the Health Insurance providers, then you should be agreeing with me.
Sorry for the typos.????
They should not sell it.And the insurance providers as well. Why would anyone sell insurance if they cannot make a profit?
Where do you think our machines would go?The UK with their single payer system has only 5.9 MRI units per million people. The US has 40.44 per million people.
It is not my party. Do not make baseless assumptions.Perhaps some day, you will wake up to the fact that your democrat party
It is not, it is just a bit better than before.
Actually it IS the answer.
Without the healthcare industry acting as commerce, we would be beholden to government bean counters making all of the healthcare decisions. We would end up with limited and rationed healthcare.It has been made into it whereas it should not be. In an advanced and civilized society, the wellbeing of our fellow man should not be commerce.
Agreed. Reform is needed, however it must be market based.Nothing is free, but it should neither be the financial ruin of people.
So no health insurance??????No, I do not. They have no place or purpose in this.
Agreed.Sorry for the typos.
I am a practical thinker. A healthy workforce is more productive and thus more profitable.
Why not?They should not sell it.
The majority of them would ultimately go away as the government bean counters would not continue to finance them.Where do you think our machines would go?
That's fine, but "people" are not obligated to accept baseless assertions as fact. Just for example, you judged the productivity of a French doctor versus U.S. based on wRVUs. I'm not sure where to find that data for the French (I did look, but CMS doesn't have data on foreign doctors that I could find), but why is that a good metric for quality healthcare? Would you as a patient rather have 5 minutes or 15 if you have a problem? France has depending on the source roughly twice the number of doctors per capita, they cover everyone, pay less than we do, and get great results. I don't see the evidence their system is inferior.I have seen this game played out time and time again. You post a source and people will simply ignore it. People here aren't actually interested in having a debate, they want to scream at people that disagree with them while seeking a circle jerk from their echo chamber. I have literally had a debate here for weeks where someone wouldn't believe clear as day sources from Wash Po, NY Times, or the OECD.
At this point I just chime in and call out lies when I see them, if people want to research it or have a debate we can.
It's not about whose fault it is, but what exists in reality. And the national policy subsidizes crap foods like wheat and corn, and corn sweeteners, and so make those goods incredibly cheap per calorie versus a healthy diet of meat, fruit, veggies. So if you don't have much money and you want to feed your family as cheaply as possible, what do you buy? You sure as hell don't buy whole foods, but crap processed stuff that's loaded with highly refined carbs, seed oils and sugar, all of them subsidized, and all of them contributing to the obesity epidemic, and a diet that our nutrition experts tell us is actually pretty healthy. Gosh, wonder why that is? Oh, right, a few massive companies control the vast majority of processed food and so wield a great deal of power.In some urban areas that is partially true, but that is also a function of local and national policy. Look at certain cities in the US that are literally allowing crime to go unchecked and wonder why all the businesses leave? Then look at SNAP allowing this crap to be bought with tax dollars? Moreover, you can choose to eat like garbage, not work out, and not manage conditions anywhere on any budget. Lots of poor people aren't obese.
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