Head to Head, Uncensored v Snakestretcher on Marxism.

[Uncensored2008]

Open invitation to @snakestretcher

To start with, the document that we both should recognize as authoritative.

https://www.marxists.org/admin/books/manifesto/Manifesto.pdf

What is Marxism? Adherence to the philosophy an ideals of Karl Marx, and by extension Frederick Engels.

What is the underlying goal of Marxism? To establish global Communism with the dissolution of all private property. Marx postulates a world without government where everything is shared by everyone. People labor for the good of humanity.

Marx bases his ideas on the Hegelian concept of Dialectical Materialism. A recognition that humans struggle for resources, at the most basic level for food, shelter, and clean water. At greater levels for comfort, luxury, and ultimately power. Marx adds in critical theory to the dialectic, stating that the world is divided between the oppressed and the oppressors. This is also the basis of the current democrat party, dividing all persons into oppressor or oppressed. Marx divides people based on economic classes. specifically Bourgeoisie (middle class) vs. Proletariat (laborers.) democrats replace class with race, placing all white people as oppressors, and all others as oppressed, dubbing the racist spin of Marxism as critical race theory.

Marx advocates that the the Proletariat must rise up in violent revolution and kill the Bourgeoisie in order to usher in the socialist state under the dictatorship of the proletarians. This is similar to the democrat plan to have minorities rise up to displace and overthrow the white power structure.

Marx advocates transitional policies such as progressive taxation, free education, abolition of inheritance rights, and centralization of credit and communication. democrats promote the same policies.

Rebuttal?

 

[BirdinHand]

Who has the popcorn?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Who has the popcorn?

Is this a call out thread? If so, it will end up somewhere else.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who has the popcorn?

@snakestretcher wanted to debate Marxism.

 

[BirdinHand]

@snakestretcher wanted to debate Marxism.

Doesn’t look like it

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Open invitation to @snakestretcher

To start with, the document that we both should recognize as authoritative.

https://www.marxists.org/admin/books/manifesto/Manifesto.pdf

What is Marxism? Adherence to the philosophy an ideals of Karl Marx, and by extension Frederick Engels.

What is the underlying goal of Marxism? To establish global Communism with the dissolution of all private property. Marx postulates a world without government where everything is shared by everyone. People labor for the good of humanity.

Marx bases his ideas on the Hegelian concept of Dialectical Materialism. A recognition that humans struggle for resources, at the most basic level for food, shelter, and clean water. At greater levels for comfort, luxury, and ultimately power. Marx adds in critical theory to the dialectic, stating that the world is divided between the oppressed and the oppressors. This is also the basis of the current democrat party, dividing all persons into oppressor or oppressed. Marx divides people based on economic classes. specifically Bourgeoisie (middle class) vs. Proletariat (laborers.) democrats replace class with race, placing all white people as oppressors, and all others as oppressed, dubbing the racist spin of Marxism as critical race theory.

Marx advocates that the the Proletariat must rise up in violent revolution and kill the Bourgeoisie in order to usher in the socialist state under the dictatorship of the proletarians. This is similar to the democrat plan to have minorities rise up to displace and overthrow the white power structure.

Marx advocates transitional policies such as progressive taxation, free education, abolition of inheritance rights, and centralization of credit and communication. democrats promote the same policies.

Rebuttal?

Democrats are not for the dissolution of private property and Trump, with full Republican support, has intervened in the economy more than any Democratic president in history.

/thread

 

[aociswundumho]

Democrats are not for the dissolution of private property

But they do support dramatically weakening property rights.

 

[snakestretcher]

@snakestretcher wanted to debate Marxism.

And...?

 

[snakestretcher]

Open invitation to @snakestretcher

To start with, the document that we both should recognize as authoritative.

https://www.marxists.org/admin/books/manifesto/Manifesto.pdf

What is Marxism? Adherence to the philosophy an ideals of Karl Marx, and by extension Frederick Engels.

What is the underlying goal of Marxism? To establish global Communism with the dissolution of all private property. Marx postulates a world without government where everything is shared by everyone. People labor for the good of humanity.

Marx bases his ideas on the Hegelian concept of Dialectical Materialism. A recognition that humans struggle for resources, at the most basic level for food, shelter, and clean water. At greater levels for comfort, luxury, and ultimately power. Marx adds in critical theory to the dialectic, stating that the world is divided between the oppressed and the oppressors. This is also the basis of the current democrat party, dividing all persons into oppressor or oppressed. Marx divides people based on economic classes. specifically Bourgeoisie (middle class) vs. Proletariat (laborers.) democrats replace class with race, placing all white people as oppressors, and all others as oppressed, dubbing the racist spin of Marxism as critical race theory.

Marx advocates that the the Proletariat must rise up in violent revolution and kill the Bourgeoisie in order to usher in the socialist state under the dictatorship of the proletarians. This is similar to the democrat plan to have minorities rise up to displace and overthrow the white power structure.

Marx advocates transitional policies such as progressive taxation, free education, abolition of inheritance rights, and centralization of credit and communication. democrats promote the same policies.

Rebuttal?

First of all Marxism is not Communism. Shall we begin from there? Marxism is a socio-economic philosophy, whereas Communism is a political construct.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And...?

Here you go. Debate.

 

[Uncensored2008]

First of all Marxism is not Communism.

Got it, so that was the Capitalist Manifesto I linked to

Shall we begin from there? Marxism is a socio-economic philosophy, whereas Communism is a political construct.

Marx literally wrote the book on Communism.

I stated in the other thread that you lacked the knowledge of the subject to debate it - now you've proven that fact.

Not a word on the central thesis of Marxism, Dialectical Materialism.

Sad.

 

[snakestretcher]

Got it, so that was the Capitalist Manifesto I linked to



Marx literally wrote the book on Communism.

I stated in the other thread that you lacked the knowledge of the subject to debate it - now you've proven that fact.

Not a word on the central thesis of Marxism, Dialectical Materialism.

Sad.

Clueless; you're very good at including the big words that you think make you appear educated in the subject, but not so great when it comes to actual factual definitions. Read, learn...

Marxism: What It Is and Comparison to Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism

Marxism is a set of social, political, and economic theories developed by Karl Marx that formed the basis of socialist principles.

www.investopedia.com

https://byjus.com/free-ias-prep/difference-between-marxism-and-communism/

Communism and Marxism

If you are interested in learning the difference between Communism and Marxism, this article is for you. Click on the link and get detailed information.

unacademy.com

 

[Uncensored2008]

Democrats are not for the dissolution of private property and Trump, with full Republican support, has intervened in the economy more than any Democratic president in history.

/thread

You don't seem to be correct about this;

https://www.fastcompany.com/90569981/what-will-it-take-for-americans-to-ditch-their-obsession-with-single-family-homes

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/california-single-family-housing.html

Ending private property for the middle class appears to be a major priority for the left.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Clueless; you're very good at including the big words that you think make you appear educated in the subject, but not so great when it comes to actual factual definitions. Read, learn...

Marxism: What It Is and Comparison to Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism

Marxism is a set of social, political, and economic theories developed by Karl Marx that formed the basis of socialist principles.

www.investopedia.com

https://byjus.com/free-ias-prep/difference-between-marxism-and-communism/

Communism and Marxism

If you are interested in learning the difference between Communism and Marxism, this article is for you. Click on the link and get detailed information.

unacademy.com

So you know utterly nothing about the subject and think links that speak broadly of Communism somehow support you.

You ignorantly claimed that Marxism is not Communism, you don't know the basic terminology, you don't know the basic concepts. You've clearly never read Marx and argue from a position of abject ignorance, secure in your righteousness because you are a leftist.

I've said it often, ignorance is the foundation the left is built upon.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You don't seem to be correct about this;

https://www.fastcompany.com/90569981/what-will-it-take-for-americans-to-ditch-their-obsession-with-single-family-homes

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/california-single-family-housing.html

Ending private property for the middle class appears to be a major priority for the left.

You can’t own a condo???

Moreover, let’s say more people move into apartments, they still have private owners.

Meanwhile, Trump’s massive tariffs and bullying of private sector companies represents the biggest government intervention into the economy of the entire postwar era by far, it’s not even close.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Who has the popcorn?

Me!

I brought the machine in case there's a good turnout.

 

[ElChupacabra]

First of all Marxism is not Communism. Shall we begin from there? Marxism is a socio-economic philosophy, whereas Communism is a political construct.

You know what this thread is, right?

Just based on the OP it appears the framing of Marxism is the more general one that gets thrown around by folks on the right to label whatever they don't like . I hope to be proven wrong, but I suspect I'm not.

 

[j brown's body]

But they do support dramatically weakening property rights.

Could you provide an example of this?

 

[Uncensored2008]

You can’t own a condo???

If the democrats gets their way, no one will be able to own property. All will rent. The implication is that government will take the role of sole landlord, with selected corporations as the implementors, ala Obama's Fascistcare model.

Moreover, let’s say more people move into apartments, they still have private owners.

A few, mostly mega-corporations that are tightly entwined with the party. But the American dream of everyone owning their own home is what democrats, like all Marxists, seek to end.

And of course this ties right back to Critical Theory - specifically the racist version democrats push.

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Meanwhile, Trump’s massive tariffs and bullying of private sector companies represents the biggest government intervention into the economy of the entire postwar era by far, it’s not even close.

Tariffs are bullying?

Did you tell George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, et al?

Since until the 20th century and the introduction of Marxist ideals of "progressive taxation" under Woodrow Wilson, it was tariffs that funded the federal government.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who has the popcorn?

A better question is "who among the left has any knowledge of the subject?"

@Roadvirus claims that I don't know what Marxism is, perhaps he will demonstrate his superior knowledge?

 

[j brown's body]

If the democrats gets their way, no one will be able to own property. All will rent. The implication is that government will take the role of sole landlord, with selected corporations as the implementors, ala Obama's Fascistcare model.

Just curious. Where do you get this information?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Just curious. Where do you get this information?

Just curious, do you know how links work?

The sentences with underlines in my posts will open up web pages.

 

[OrphanSlug]

What is the economic importance (area of the forums we are in) on distinguishing the difference between Marxism and Communism?

(And yes, I've already grabbed a handful of popcorn for the show.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

What is the economic importance (area of the forums we are in) on distinguishing the difference between Marxism and Communism?

(And yes, I've already grabbed a handful of popcorn for the show.)

As answered in my OP:

What is the underlying goal of Marxism? To establish global Communism with the dissolution of all private property. Marx postulates a world without government where everything is shared by everyone. People labor for the good of humanity.

Marxism is Communism, Communism is the final stage of Marxism.

 

[aociswundumho]

Could you provide an example of this?

1) Zoning laws and land use regulations which prevent people from building on their own land.

2) Building codes which prevent people from building economically on their own land.

3) Property taxes, which means you must pay rent to the filthy, rotten state in order to "own" your home.

4) Asset forfeiture laws, where the state may legally confiscate your property without a conviction.

5) Nationalization of businesses, where the state expropriates private companies for the "common good".

6) Regulations on private, personal property: firearms, drugs, livestock, etc.

7) Seizure of bank accounts. States routinely freeze or confiscate money from people, e.g. Canada’s freezing of bank accounts during the 2022 trucker protests.

This list only took a few minutes and is by no means exhaustive.