Is our health care system sustainable?

[Blue Dog]

Maybe if the Public Option was part of PPACA, we wouldn’t be discussing how bad it is…..

 

[Greenbeard]

The bold is easy for the market to do, but politically it's impossible in the US. For example, cataract surgery in India is dirt cheap:

Everything in India is dirt cheap.

 

[aociswundumho]

Everything in India is dirt cheap.

Wrong. Consider iphones. They are much more expensive in India than in the US.

 

[Helix]

No. However, Republicans will block any sort of real reform, and any changes they support will be designed to dismantle the ACA, Medicaid, and Medicare. Step one in any reform effort is voting Republicans out of the way.

 

[aociswundumho]

How do you cut costs? Reduce wages and salaries?

Yes. Drastically.

Cap the price of an x-ray machine and CT scanner?

No, but allow competition.

Healthcare is a "product" that shouldn't be competitive.

Wrong. This dumb shit is exactly what providers luv to hear. Imagine you own a business in a certain industry, and your customers say, "we need to prevent competition in this industry". What a dream that would be.

Like other emergency services, the goal is to save lives. The closest hospital (or fire station) respond out of need, not consumer choice.

No it isn't. The goal of ambulance monopolies is to make money. If they don't get paid, they don't work.

 

[dmpi]

How do you cut costs? Reduce wages and salaries? Cap the price of an x-ray machine and CT scanner?

I have an aortic aneurism and CT scans are scheduled for once a year. I trust the system knows what it's doing. Colonoscopies are every five years and chest images yearly. Costs could be reduced by spreading out testing, but that has to be weighed against the increase in the incidence of medical emergency because of less frequent testing. My aneurism could grow to the point surgery is required in less than a year. The chances of this happening are small, hence the yearly scans.

Healthcare is a "product" that shouldn't be competitive. Like other emergency services, the goal is to save lives. The closest hospital (or fire station) respond out of need, not consumer choice.

It's real easy to say that one's life is worth all the money in the world and no expense should be spared to save ones life. But the reality is that savings one's life is just extending his/her life span, sometimes just a few days. We have to manage our finite amount of medical resources with people wants and needs. Insurance companies try to do this but they just end up looking like the bad guy while costs just go higher and higher. Also there's litigation and lawsuits causing an overabundance of safety. People expect zero mistakes. All this costs money. I see the real cost driver as unrealistic customer/patient expectations.

 

[Greenbeard]

Yes. Drastically.

A monopsony to drive down wages is … single-payer.

 

[aociswundumho]

A monopsony to drive down wages is … single-payer.

Not when the monopsony's power is political rather than economic, and will be controlled by the very powerful healthcare lobby.

This of course assumes they would allow single payer to happen in the first place, which they wouldn't. Any sort of healthcare "reform" will have to benefit the providers, just like Obamacare did.

 

[Michael Cole]

Yes. Drastically.

How much? How much should we pay RNs? Are doctors free to charge what they want or will there be government controls?

No, but allow competition.

Equipment producers are competitive.

Wrong. This dumb shit is exactly what providers luv to hear. Imagine you own a business in a certain industry, and your customers say, "we need to prevent competition in this industry". What a dream that would be.

Imagine deciding which fire fighting company to call as your house burns.

No it isn't. The goal of ambulance monopolies is to make money. If they don't get paid, they don't work.

Lol. No, dude, the goal of emergency services, any emergency services, is to save lives.

 

[WisconIndependent]

What did you expect from a ‘system’ managed (subsidized and regulated?) by congress critters?

You have no idea who controls our health care system. The insurance companies na d the for-profit systems control health care

 

[WisconIndependent]

Not when the monopsony's power is political rather than economic, and will be controlled by the very powerful healthcare lobby.

This of course assumes they would allow single payer to happen in the first place, which they wouldn't. Any sort of healthcare "reform" will have to benefit the providers, just like Obamacare did.

View attachment 67594255

One of the problems few talk about is the health care insurance industries. They both decide rates we pay and who does and does not get care. they are not there to provide funding for care, they are there to limit health care and increase profits. They use over 28% of revenues on administration prior to making profits.

 

[Greenbeard]

Not when the monopsony's power is political rather than economic, and will be controlled by the very powerful healthcare lobby.

So between Medicaid, Medicare, and commercial insurance, you believe that stingiest payer is … commercial insurance?

I hope you’re sitting down.

 

[Ahlevah]

Democrats spent years making college affordable. We see how that turned out. Now they want to do the same for health care.

View attachment 67594169

Don’t forget food, housing, energy, and transportation. Let’s subsidize whatever positive rights leftists say we have, because government’s Reverse Midas Touch—the ability to turn whatever it puts its grippers on into shit—works on everything.

 

[aociswundumho]

So between Medicaid, Medicare, and commercial insurance, you believe that stingiest payer is … commercial insurance?

You are forgetting that private insurers have a perverse incentivize to let prices rise, thanks to obamacare's 80/20 rule. And no matter what you do, all of them are puppets of the same healthcare lobby.

 

[Greenbeard]

You are forgetting that private insurers have a perverse incentivize to let prices rise, thanks to obamacare's 80/20 rule. And no matter what you do, all of them are puppets of the same healthcare lobby.

I see, you believe that before Obamacare commercial insurance was the stingiest payer. I hope you’re sitting down.

 

[aociswundumho]

One of the problems few talk about is the health care insurance industries. They both decide rates we pay and who does and does not get care.

The rates aren't arbitrary, they are based on how much insurers paid out the year before. And thanks to obamacare's 80/20 rule, their profits scale with total healthcare spending. The more they pay in claims, the more revenue - and profit - they're allowed to keep. It's the exact opposite of how an insurance company is supposed to work. Obamacare turned them into cost-plus operators, which is a boon for providers.