Gunshots fired at Al Jazeera bureau in Gaza [W:49]

[TheDemSocialist]

I've actually never said this about Al-J before, because I didn't know how in bed their owners are with Hamas until the current conflict and Hamas efforts to go cry to mommy to help them with a ceasefire that lets them keep trying to murder Jews.

Anything else?

So war is the answer? How has the "forceful" response worked out the past 80 years?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

True and I think it should be so in an ideal world, but it is also clear that the damage that can be done by selective reporting can be extraordinarily damaging. That is the point of propaganda . l am not at all sure that I believe that propaganda from within a battlefield shouldn't be interpreted as a weapon and treated as such.

What damage has Al-Jazeera done?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Which is not only a propaganda organ, but a propaganda organ that has a key mission of having westerners accept the organization for being less of a propaganda operation than it really is. Cause if Al J English looks semi-respectable, then it's arabic programmingmuist be totally awesome. Cause we know that no one ever says one thing in English and something else in Arabic, right. Right?

Are you going to lay our specifics?

Well actually, their stats have blown a massive hole in the pro-Palestinian false narratives that Israel is targeting civilians and has caused massive indiscriminate civilian casualties. Anything to say about that?

Uhh bombing a hospital seems to be targeting civilians..

 

[CJ 2.0]

So war is the answer? How has the "forceful" response worked out the past 80 years?

Wow, that is a complete non sequitur.

Incidentally, it is working out very well. The alternative would have been Israel's destruction, but instead it is a thriving, prosperous democracy.

Hows the forceful refusal to tolerate Israel's existence working out for the Arabs?

 

[CJ 2.0]

Uhh bombing a hospital seems to be targeting civilians..

Seems to you. Cause you don't want to pay attention.

As you would know if you did pay attention, the Palestinians' brave "resistance fighters" like to put and launch rockets from surrounding hospitals, schools and the like.

Israel, not liking to have its civilians murdered by rockets, targets these.

Incidentally, you do know Hamas' leaders have based themselves in hospitals for this war?

 

[Manc Skipper]

The IDF will be shooting (Accidentally of course!) at Channel 4 News next....


" Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza

When Shujaiya was attacked by the Israeli Defence Force, killing dozens of civilians, the first I heard about it was via Twitter, early Sunday morning.

An activist on the ground I follow tweeted: “people running out of Shujaiya, bodies lying on ground”.

Soon after, Mohammed Omer – an award-winning Palestinian journalist who tweets as @Mogaza – reported:

"Israel not allowing ambulances into Shejaia now, Scores of bodies in the streets now!"

Not long after that, numerous western TV journalists stationed alongside Palestinian ambulance crews, including my colleague, Jonathan Miller, reported the same things. There was immediacy, corroboration and – with pictures – evidence. ... "

- See more at: Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Paul Mason | Paul Mason


Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Paul Mason | Paul Mason

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Wow, that is a complete non sequitur.

Incidentally, it is working out very well. The alternative would have been Israel's destruction, but instead it is a thriving, prosperous democracy.

Really? Even tho peace has not been attained? Anyways arent democracies supposed to uphold press freedom?

Hows the forceful refusal to tolerate Israel's existence working out for the Arabs?

I love how you bunch a whole group of people into one. But anyways you do realize the PLO and PA accept Israels right to exist right?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Seems to you. Cause you don't want to pay attention.

Oh wait was the hospital a "terrorist stronghold"? :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTiaWZHnS0o&list=UUhqUTb7kYRX8-EiaN3XFrSQ

As you would know if you did pay attention, the Palestinians' brave "resistance fighters" like to put and launch rockets from surrounding hospitals, schools and the like.

Really? Even tho no rockets were found?

Israel, not liking to have its civilians murdered by rockets, targets these.

What do Palestinians do? What do the 500 civilians who have already been killed do? Are they just "collateral damage"?

 

[CJ 2.0]

The IDF will be shooting (Accidentally of course!) at Channel 4 News next....


" Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza

When Shujaiya was attacked by the Israeli Defence Force, killing dozens of civilians, the first I heard about it was via Twitter, early Sunday morning.

An activist on the ground I follow tweeted: “people running out of Shujaiya, bodies lying on ground”.

Soon after, Mohammed Omer – an award-winning Palestinian journalist who tweets as @Mogaza – reported:

Not long after that, numerous western TV journalists stationed alongside Palestinian ambulance crews, including my colleague, Jonathan Miller, reported the same things. There was immediacy, corroboration and – with pictures – evidence. ... "

- See more at: Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Paul Mason | Paul Mason


Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Paul Mason | Paul Mason

Yes. When Israel goes after terrorist tunnels after telling all the civilians to leave, those civilians who listen to Hamas and stay are at serious risk.

Incidentally, u know Hamas is sending 13 year old suicide bombers at Israeli troops and has terrorist firing from behind kids, right?

 

[CJ 2.0]

Really? Even tho peace has not been attained? Anyways arent democracies supposed to uphold press freedom?

Yes. Because peace with the Palestinians os impossible until they are defeated and abandon their zero sum game.

I love how you bunch a whole group of people into one. But anyways you do realize the PLO and PA accept Israels right to exist right?

Sometimes it is the rotten million that ruin it for the other million.

And no, they don't, which is why it is such a painful "concession" to recognize Jewish sovereignty in Israel. Their slight of hand may work with you because you want to use it to make these sorts of arguments, but it is pretty obvious why that concession is such a big one for them.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Yes. Because peace with the Palestinians os impossible until they are defeated and abandon their zero sum game.

Zero sum? News flash, Hamas is wanting the blockade of Gaza to end, and the rest of the Palestinians are wanting a negotiations based off the 1967 borders and settlement expansion to end. Thats not a zero sum game.

Sometimes it is the rotten million that ruin it for the other million.

So guilty simply because they are arab?

And no, they don't, which is why it is such a painful "concession" to recognize Jewish sovereignty in Israel.

Recognizing the state of Israel and recognizing Israel as a Jewish state are two different things.

Their slight of hand may work with you because you want to use it to make these sorts of arguments, but it is pretty obvious why that concession is such a big one for them.

:roll: Oh yes you know their true means.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Gunshots fired at Al Jazeera bureau in Gaza

Zero sum? News flash, Hamas is wanting the blockade of Gaza to end, and the rest of the Palestinians are wanting a negotiations based off the 1967 borders and settlement expansion to end. Thats not a zero sum game.

News flash, Hamas used building supplies brought into Gaza after the last war to build tunnels into Israel for the purpose of murdering civilians. Why exactly would Israel think it is a good idea to relax the blockade? If anything, it should be strengthened.

And yes it is zero sum because the Palestinians would not have and will not stop fighting until they end Jewish control over Israel. That is zero sum.

So guilty simply because they are arab?

No, guilty cause guilty. But nice try.

Recognizing the state of Israel and recognizing Israel as a Jewish state are two different things.

Of course they are. Recognizing a Jewish state acknowledges an end of conflict against the enemy you went to war to destroy. Recognizing israel as a sovereign state simply allows you to continue to claim a right to settle in and control that state and to engage in terrorism to bring that about.

Seriously, how stupid do you think Israelis and their supporters are?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

News flash, Hamas used building supplies brought into Gaza after the last war to build tunnels into Israel for the purpose of murdering civilians. Why exactly would Israel think it is a good idea to relax the blockade? If anything, it should be strengthened.

Why? Because Hamas is using it as a propaganda ploy, and its also inhumane blocking food, UN deliverys, and medical supplies.

And yes it is zero sum because the Palestinians would not have and will not stop fighting until they end Jewish control over Israel. That is zero sum.

This is also simply not true.

No, guilty cause guilty. But nice try.

What makes them guilty. You have to have evidence to prove someone guilty.

Of course they are. Recognizing a Jewish state acknowledges an end of conflict against the enemy you went to war to destroy.

1.) No serious members in the PA are wanting to destroy Israel.
2.) Why can Israel simply not be recognized as Israel? Wasnt that their first decleration for the conflict and the PA and PLO both recognized Israel.

Recognizing israel as a sovereign state simply allows you to continue to claim a right to settle in and control that state and to engage in terrorism to bring that about.

Uh no it doesnt. You dont have to recognize a state to partake in actions...

Seriously, how stupid do you think Israelis and their supporters are?

NEver said they were "stupid".

 

[joG]

What damage has Al-Jazeera done?

Do you watch it?

Ps: I am not saying that I think that attacks on the company are good. I am saying that it is understandable and that as a participant in military action it is not protected by the laws of peaceful discourse.

 

[ido_]

I cant find a link. You have one? Also kind of worysome that a FM made statements saying he was gong to silence the station.

As I promised, there wasn't a report in English, only in hebrew:

צה"ל ירה לעבר מבנה שבו נמצאים משרדי ערוץ "אל-ג'זירה" בעזה, כך דיווחו הבוקר (יום ג') כלי תקשורת פלסטיניים. הרשת הקטארית הודיעה לאחר מכן כי היא מטילה על ישראל את האחריות לביטחונם של אנשי צוותה ולשלמות משרדיה ברצועה. צה"ל מסר כי משרדי הערוץ לא הותקפו, אלא יעד טרור סמוך.

translation (google):

IDF fired at a building where the offices channel "Al - Jazeera" in Gaza, reported this morning (Tuesday) Palestinian media. Qatari network subsequently announced that it imposes on Israel responsible for the safety of the crew and the integrity of its offices in the Gaza Strip. army said that government channel were not attacked, but a terrorist target nearby.

ynet ??-?'????: ??? ?????, ????? ?????? - ?????

 

[PeteEU]

Because the BBC actualy reports both sides of the story, just like Channel 4 news.

Unlike Al Jazeera, which reports on one side of the story.

The side of everything that is against Israel.

The you clearly have not watched Al Jazerra.

Like the Emir of Quatar or the Emir of Bahrain?

I agree with the Emir of Qatar bit, but they have ripped into the government of Bahrain many times.

Yes it is.

Well it is clearly not what you claim then.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Do you watch it?

Yes. See no problem with their reporting. It has long been a stigma against Al-Jazeera that "they support terrorism" simply because they report on it and report on many things western MSM does not report on.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Yes. See no problem with their reporting. It has long been a stigma against Al-Jazeera that "they support terrorism" simply because they report on it and report on many things western MSM does not report on.

Yes, yes. Al-Jazera is owned by Qatar. Qatar is a major financer of Hamas. Strangely enough. Al-J is supporting Hamas' narrative in Gaza.

But keep on relying on the propaganda wings of various totalitarian and authoritarian states that sponsor terrorist organizations like Al J and Press TV. Makes things easy on this side of the discussion.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Yes, yes. Al-Jazera is owned by Qatar. Qatar is a major financer of Hamas. Strangely enough. Al-J is supporting Hamas' narrative in Gaza.

But keep on relying on the propaganda wings of various totalitarian and authoritarian states that sponsor terrorist organizations like Al J and Press TV. Makes things easy on this side of the discussion.

Al Jazeera is a world renown, respected journalist outlet. If you have problem simply because they were funded and financed by Qatar that is your own problem. If you have any proof of "propaganda" then go ahead and share it. But correlation does not equate to causation.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Al Jazeera is a world renown, respected journalist outlet.

OMFG. Really? Wow, well I stand corrected.

Argue from authority much?

And respected by anti-Israel folks and the muslim world does not mean respected, respected.

If you have problem simply because they were funded and financed by Qatar that is your own problem. If you have any proof of "propaganda" then go ahead and share it. But correlation does not equate to causation.

There is absolutely no reason to trust Al-J reporting about Hamas or about the Jews. It really is blindingly obvious.

 

[ido_]

Al Jazeera is a world renown, respected journalist outlet. If you have problem simply because they were funded and financed by Qatar that is your own problem. If you have any proof of "propaganda" then go ahead and share it. But correlation does not equate to causation.

I think lies posted on al-jazeerah were already demonstrated here at least once. I recall something about Jews coming from abroad as merceneries to fight Palestinians with a picture of IDF troops titled as the french youth

 

[joG]

Yes. See no problem with their reporting. It has long been a stigma against Al-Jazeera that "they support terrorism" simply because they report on it and report on many things western MSM does not report on.

It is one sided you noticed and shows emotion evoking images that are geared to cause hate. I am not saying other media do not do that too. But that does not mean they are not then somebodies deadly enemy. And in this case the station is a real true enemy in the old sense of the word.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Al Jazeera is a world renown, respected journalist outlet. If you have problem simply because they were funded and financed by Qatar that is your own problem. If you have any proof of "propaganda" then go ahead and share it. But correlation does not equate to causation.

A bit more on this nonsense:

Obama to the rescue

As for Qatar, the tiny natural gas superpower presents itself to Americans as their greatest ally in the Muslim world. The emirate gives hundreds of millions of dollars to US universities to open campuses in Doha and pretends it is a progressive, open society, replete with debating societies.

Qatar hosts three major US military bases on its territory. And it is becoming one of the most important clients for US military contractors. Earlier this year Qatar signed an $11.4 billion dollar arms agreement with the US.

At the same time, according to the Calacalist report, Qatar is the major bankroller of ISIS and al Nusra in Syria and Iraq. It gives $50 million a month to jihadists in Libya. It gives Hamas $100m. in annual aid. And in the past two years Doha has provided Hamas with an additional $620m. dollars, including $250m. it transferred to Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal’s personal bank account, and $350m. in military aid to Hamas, transferred after the Egyptian military forced the Muslim Brotherhood government from power last July.

Add to that the $100m. per year that Qatar pours into Al Jazeera’s satellite network – which has dedicated itself to undermining pro-Western Arab regimes while popularizing the likes of al-Qaida and Hamas, and Qatar is the largest financier of international jihad in the world.


But yes, trust their propaganda news organ. That's an excellent idea.

 

[Serenity]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to "Israel/Palestine/Hamas political debate and discussion specific to the current military activity" sub-forum.