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Growing "second thoughts" among the transgressive and dissident right? (1 Viewer)

Cameron

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The following is excerpted from Michelle Goldberg's The Vibe Shifts Against the Right, NY Times:

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Finding progressive conventional wisdom hollow and unfulfilling, [Alex Kaschuta, maker of the podcast "Subversive"] was attracted to the contrarian narratives and esoteric ideas of the thinkers and influencers sometimes known as the “dissident right.” They presented liberal modernity — with its emphasis on racial and gender equality, global cooperation, secularism and orderly democratic processes — as a Matrix-like illusion sustained by ideological coercion, and themselves as the holders of freedom-giving red pills. For Kaschuta, who lives in Romania, the promise of a more authentic, organic society, freed from the hypocrisies of the existing order, was apparently inviting. “There’s always been something tantalizing about the idea that the world is not how it is presented to you,” she wrote on her blog. “A frontier opens up.”

But over the last couple of years, that frontier started seeming to her more like a dead end. Recently, she abandoned the movement. “The vibe is shifting yet again,” Kaschuta wrote on X last week. “The cumulative IQ of the right is looking worse than the market.”

Kaschuta is not alone; several people who once appeared to find transgressive right-wing ideas scintillating are having second thoughts as they watch Donald Trump’s administration put those ideas into practice. The writer Richard Hanania once said that he hated bespoke pronouns “more than genocide,” and his 2023 book, “The Origins of Woke: Civil Rights Law, Corporate America, and the Triumph of Identity Politics,” provided a blueprint for the White House’s war on D.E.I. But less than three months into Trump’s new term, he regrets his vote, telling me, “The resistance libs were mostly right about him.”

Nathan Cofnas, a right-wing philosophy professor and self-described “race realist” fixated on group differences in I.Q., wroteon X, “All over the world, almost everyone with more than half a brain is looking at the disaster of Trump (along with Putin, Yoon Suk Yeol, et al.) and drawing the very reasonable conclusion that right-wing, anti-woke parties are incapable of effective governance.” (Yoon Suk Yeol is South Korea’s recently impeached president.)

Scott Siskind, who blogs under the pseudonym Scott Alexander, has been an influential figure in Silicon Valley’s revolt against social justice ideology, though he’s never been a Trump supporter. Last week, he asked whether “edgy heterodox centrists” like himself paved the way for Trump by opening the door to once-verboten arguments. In an imaginary Socratic dialogue, he wrote, “We wanted a swift, lean government that stopped strangling innovation and infrastructure. Instead we got chain-saw-style firings, total devastation of state capacity in exactly the way most likely to strangle innovation more than ever, and the worst and dumbest people in the world gloating about how they solved the ‘grift’ of sending lifesaving medications to dying babies.”


...

When [Kaschuta] looks back on the milieu she was once a part of, she said, she sees no solid ideas for a post-liberal society — it was all just aesthetics, resentments and vibes. “And now the vibes have knocked into reality,” she said. “And it is so jarring to see that none of the vibes stand up to scrutiny. None of the vibes actually fit onto the 21st century. None of the vibes, if implemented, would lead to anything but immiseration and war.”

//

Goldberg has her own views, which I won't post for copyright reasons. But what do you think? Is this a legitimate trend, or just selective examples and liberal wishful thinking?
 
Goldberg has her own views, which I won't post for copyright reasons. But what do you think? Is this a legitimate trend, or just selective examples and liberal wishful thinking?
At this point? Mostly wishful thinking. Trump received 49.8% of the vote on Election Day, and his current RCP approval rating is 45.3%, so hardly a massive dropoff in his support. However, that will change if Trump doesn't switch gears on tariffs, or if he successfully installs a sycophant at the Fed. Those things are going to have very large, very obvious economic consequences that will cause him to hemorrhage support.
 
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tbf, Trump has started shitting on Trumpco customers


Trumpco customers have every right to feel betrayed by Trump

Trump said he's gonna let the companies (of donors) who have incentivized years of illegal immigration
by hiring people who came here illegally
to keep employing the people who came here illegally


Trump is going to let the people who came here illegally keep their jobs
(as long as they work for one of his donors)

Also, Trump depleted their retirement funds and thoroughly ****ed American farmers
 
At this point? Mostly wishful thinking. Trump received 49.8% of the vote on Election Day, and his current RCP approval rating is 45.3%, so hardly a massive dropoff in his support. However, that will change if Trump doesn't switch gears on tariffs, or if he successfully installs a sycophant at the Fed. Those things are going to have very large, very obvious economic consequences that will cause him to hemorrhage support.
When a cult loses even 1 percent it is major news, so trump could be in trouble
 
Trump's action represents just one man's implementation of various right-wing ideologies. Rejecting the ideologies because you simply hate the man speaks more of TDS than some profound insight or revelation.
 
When a cult loses even 1 percent it is major news, so trump could be in trouble
He isn't unpopular enough for Republicans and conservatives to turn against him en masse. Right now, he's just unpopular enough for them to occasionally tut-tut his most outrageous actions while mostly playing ball with him.

I doubt a critical mass of Republicans and conservatives will throw him under the bus until his approval rating dips into the 30s.
 
Trump's action represents just one man's implementation of various right-wing ideologies. Rejecting the ideologies because you simply hate the man speaks more of TDS than some profound insight or revelation.

I absolutely share you assessment that Trumps supporters who voted for Trump because of the noises Trump made about immigration

will just get over Trump's sudden and dramatic FLIP-FLOP
 
At this point? Mostly wishful thinking. Trump received 49.8% of the vote on Election Day, and his current RCP approval rating is 45.3%, so hardly a massive dropoff in his support. However, that will change if Trump doesn't switch gears on tariffs, or if he successfully installs a sycophant at the Fed. Those things are going to have very large, very obvious economic consequences that will cause him to hemorrhage support.
I agree with everything you said except "Mostly wishful thinking." The massive dropoff in his approval rating is already happening, slowly but surely. It's just going to take a minute for his cuts to poor Americans on Medicaid and support for children really hits these dumb republicans hard. I don't see him switching gears on tariffs, he's too demented , deluded, and arrogant to change course at this point. Plus, his outrageous lies on things like "the price of eggs is down, and gas is under 2 dollars a gallon" are going to bite him in his fat ass. These lies are so obviously verifiable, even a 2nd grade child could see it.
 
I agree with everything you said except "Mostly wishful thinking." The massive dropoff in his approval rating is already happening, slowly but surely. It's just going to take a minute for his cuts to poor Americans on Medicaid and support for children really hits these dumb republicans hard. I don't see him switching gears on tariffs, he's too demented , deluded, and arrogant to change course at this point. Plus, his outrageous lies on things like "the price of eggs is down, and gas is under 2 dollars a gallon" are going to bite him in his fat ass. These lies are so obviously verifiable, even a 2nd grade child could see it.
I hope you are right, but a second grade child could have seen how unfit this guy was since 2016..........it made no difference
 
just selective examples and liberal wishful thinking?
"Even after Donald Trump’s tariffs sent markets plummeting and economists expressed concern about consumer prices, the vast majority of Trump voters do not regret casting their ballots for the president.

"Among a sample of people who voted for Trump, only 2 percent said they regret their vote and would vote differently if they had the chance,
according to a new University of Massachusetts Amherst / YouGov poll."

The poll doesn't say how many who voted for Harris have changed their minds since the election and would change their vote if they could.
 
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"Even after Donald Trump’s tariffs sent markets plummeting and economists expressed concern about consumer prices, the vast majority of Trump voters do not regret casting their ballots for the president.

"Among a sample of people who voted for Trump, only 2 percent said they regret their vote and would vote differently if they had the chance,
according to a new University of Massachusetts Amherst / YouGov poll."
They simply haven't been hit yet with the effects of his tariffs and total mismanagement of this government...wait for it, it's coming! ;)
 
They simply haven't been hit yet with the effects of his tariffs and total mismanagement of this government...wait for it, it's coming! ;)
LOL!!
If you're betting on that to win any elections, I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed.
 
He isn't unpopular enough for Republicans and conservatives to turn against him en masse. Right now, he's just unpopular enough for them to occasionally tut-tut his most outrageous actions while mostly playing ball with him.

I doubt a critical mass of Republicans and conservatives will throw him under the bus until his approval rating dips into the 30s.
As long as Black people are on TV,
He will NOT lose any MAGA support...
-Peace

They are enjoying the immigration story, for now...
But what they want is for all the Blacks to be shipped back to Africa...
Their ultimate dream is for all People Of Color to be gassed...
The Final Solution...
 
Trump's action represents just one man's implementation of various right-wing ideologies. Rejecting the ideologies because you simply hate the man speaks more of TDS than some profound insight or revelation.
Trump's numbers are holding up based on border control support. Underwater more deeply otherwise.

Better hope deals on trade get done soon. A recession will be blamed on Trump and rightfully so.
 
Trump's action represents just one man's implementation of various right-wing ideologies. Rejecting the ideologies because you simply hate the man speaks more of TDS than some profound insight or revelation.
If trump's ideologies are so great, why is everything crashing?
 
LOL!!
If you're betting on that to win any elections, I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed.
Do you? I don't. Once people are hit hard in their pocketbooks, things change. Trump's support is already cracking.
 
Trump's support is already cracking.
2% of his voters say they regret their vote. 2%. Even if you were right, support for his vision for America isn't "cracking." People are liking an America First approach after so many years of being the world's patsy.
 
At this point? Mostly wishful thinking. Trump received 49.8% of the vote on Election Day, and his current RCP approval rating is 45.3%, so hardly a massive dropoff in his support. However, that will change if Trump doesn't switch gears on tariffs, or if he successfully installs a sycophant at the Fed. Those things are going to have very large, very obvious economic consequences that will cause him to hemorrhage support.
That may be true, but the interesting thing about the article is that it is talking about "thought leaders" among the dissident right. These are the influencers who spread their (toxic) views across social media and airwaves and help get the rubes in the cult in the first place. If they are turning against not only Trump but the underlying ideas he stands for, perhaps the seeds are there for a broader disavowment and correction in the months and years to come. Then again, perhaps not.
 
He isn't unpopular enough for Republicans and conservatives to turn against him en masse. Right now, he's just unpopular enough for them to occasionally tut-tut his most outrageous actions while mostly playing ball with him.

I doubt a critical mass of Republicans and conservatives will throw him under the bus until his approval rating dips into the 30s.
According to one pole, he's only got 2-3 points to go.
 
2% of his voters say they regret their vote. 2%. Even if you were right, support for his vision for America isn't "cracking." People are liking an America First approach after so many years of being the world's patsy.
You have bought into trump's bullshit like so many others.
 
Trump's action represents just one man's implementation of various right-wing ideologies. Rejecting the ideologies because you simply hate the man speaks more of TDS than some profound insight or revelation.
Or maybe people hate the man because of the hateful ideologies he espouses.
 
You completely missed my point, nice going. Stick with your two percent if it makes you feel better.
You didn't have a point; just your typical insult.
 
3 months from inauguration.... Way too soon to find any change in trends.

There are many who find Trump obnoxious and uninformed but love his style of negotiating & believe all the noise he generates will result in improved policies for the USA. Of course, they don't all agree on what defines "improved policies". For some (as one example) it is isolationism, for others it's better trading relations with other countries - getting closer to Free Trade.
 

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